tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post305827789052323368..comments2024-03-29T03:40:00.298-04:00Comments on Progressive Eruptions: Jon Stewart Takes Down the Clowns over at CNBCShaw Kenawehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-16093914002527475842009-03-07T16:26:00.000-05:002009-03-07T16:26:00.000-05:00Mindless violence refers to what the cops did and ...Mindless violence refers to what the cops did and to Mookie launching the riot against an innocent person who did not kill Radio.<BR/><BR/>Is it so outrageous to consider that mindless violence?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-17272169623007138852009-03-07T16:23:00.000-05:002009-03-07T16:23:00.000-05:00dmarks-The only one here using the phrase 'mindles...dmarks-<BR/><BR/>The only one here using the phrase 'mindless violence' is you.<BR/><BR/>Ebert doesn't.<BR/><BR/>I don't.<BR/><BR/>Spike doesn't.<BR/><BR/>It's your characterization.<BR/><BR/>Of course if you were referring to the cops killing of Radio Rahem then you might have been onto something.Arthurstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01083956773592540646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-21088744106788285022009-03-07T15:29:00.000-05:002009-03-07T15:29:00.000-05:00Glad Clint got it right in the reel world, because...Glad Clint got it right in the reel world, because in the <A HREF="http://www.militaryfactory.com/vietnam/casualties.asp#8" REL="nofollow">real world</A> VN action 14.4% US KIA casualties were black; from a general population of 13.4% (I'm intrigued by the distribution of religions KIA vs general population, but gee, the post was about John Stewart...)BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168862935045755393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-50941133136204586892009-03-06T18:48:00.000-05:002009-03-06T18:48:00.000-05:00Shaw said: "A black man that pushes back against t...Shaw said: "A black man that pushes back against the majority that perpetuates it is perceived as racist? That is rich."<BR/><BR/>Any man, black or non-black, who makes racist statements is not "pushing back", as the vast majority of the targets did not push him to begin with.<BR/><BR/>"He sees America from his perspective and it is a perspective that is accurate."<BR/><BR/>He has made accurate statements. He has also made some racist statements. Racist statements aren't really accurate.<BR/><BR/>It is rich and insane to absolve a man of racism due to his skin color.<BR/><BR/>I refuse to let him off the hook for racist generalizations because he is a black man.<BR/><BR/>----<BR/><BR/>By the way, Shaw. Are you aware of Spike Lee's famous statement about Larry Bird? You ought to look it up and see the discussion of it. It is every bit as ludicrous and racist as Limbaugh's Quote #5 in your list. And you simply can't excuse Spike for doing this because he was "pushing back" at Larry Bird.<BR/><BR/>And reading up on the issue of Spike vs Clint is illuminating. It turns out that "Flags of Our Fathers" had an accurate proportion of African-American soldiers shown. Spike would have likely been happy if Clint Eastwood had an African-American actor play Ira Hayes.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-30436446913027986622009-03-06T18:33:00.000-05:002009-03-06T18:33:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-16228425203461222592009-03-06T18:04:00.000-05:002009-03-06T18:04:00.000-05:00dmarks,I thought Ehrenstein was the originator of ...dmarks,<BR/><BR/>I thought Ehrenstein was the originator of "Magic Negor." I had no idea it had been around for so long. My mistake.<BR/><BR/>But I still maintain that Spike Lee is NOT a racist. <BR/><BR/>He sees America from his perspective and it is a perspective that is accurate.<BR/><BR/>Look at the racist images that have exploded since Pres. Obama was nominated and elected. (BTW, they're not coming from the Left.)<BR/><BR/>Racism runs deep. A black man that pushes back against the majority that perpetuates it is perceived as racist? That is rich. <BR/><BR/>And insane.<BR/><BR/>Arthurstone,<BR/><BR/>That Howard Zinn book should be required reading in every high school in America.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-27062501405157851822009-03-06T17:45:00.000-05:002009-03-06T17:45:00.000-05:00My reading is actual, too. The trash can incident ...My reading is actual, too. The trash can incident was mindless violence. It would have been less so if Mookie had attacked the police station.<BR/><BR/>I don't see how my argument is false since it is based on Lee's claim as quoted by you and dear ol Roger.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-15994788636568167402009-03-06T17:16:00.000-05:002009-03-06T17:16:00.000-05:00dmarks:'Mindless violence' is your 'reading' of wh...dmarks:<BR/><BR/>'Mindless violence' is your 'reading' of what happens in the film. <BR/><BR/>Here's an actual 'reading' of the film.<BR/><BR/>http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010527/REVIEWS08/105270301/1023<BR/><BR/>dmarks added:<BR/><BR/>'I am not a racist. I don't buy Spike Lee's statement at all.'<BR/><BR/>I'll trust you're right on the first sentence. But as you've built a false argument the second is beside the point.Arthurstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01083956773592540646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-11412969087283190752009-03-06T16:59:00.000-05:002009-03-06T16:59:00.000-05:00Arthur: "Your 'reading' of Spike Lee's work is pre...Arthur: "Your 'reading' of Spike Lee's work is preposterous. As is your suggestion Lee is a blatant racist"<BR/><BR/>I referred to specific racist statements by him. It is not "preposterous" as I have backed it up with specific examples.<BR/><BR/>"black people are more likely to favor mindless violence.'"<BR/><BR/>That is derived from your quote of Lee, where he claims that "only white viewers" question whether Mookie's mindless act of violence against innocent victims is "the right thing". I made a fair paraphrase of Lee's implication that blacks are more likely to justify thuggery. I am not a racist: I do not buy Lee's statement at all.<BR/><BR/>"Recommended weekend reading"<BR/><BR/>Do these contain information on Spike Lee's statements?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-2128552396712918512009-03-06T16:49:00.000-05:002009-03-06T16:49:00.000-05:00dmarks:'Arthur: Again with the colored people? My ...dmarks:<BR/><BR/>'Arthur: Again with the colored people? My reading of Lee's work is accurate. And there is nothing nuanced about Lee's justification of mindless violence in "Do the Right Thing" (including his racist claim that black people are more likely to favor mindless violence). And there is no need to put quotes around Lee's racism. Spike Lee's racism is blatant enough that there is no doubt.'<BR/><BR/><BR/>Your 'reading' of Spike Lee's work is preposterous. As is your suggestion Lee is a blatant racist. As is the comment that somehow Spike Lee 'claims...black people are more likely to FAVOR mindless violence.'<BR/><BR/>You have to do better dmarks. <BR/><BR/>Recommended weekend reading:<BR/><BR/>The Autobiography of Malcolm X<BR/><BR/>The Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn<BR/><BR/>An Essay of Liberation by Herbert MarcuseArthurstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01083956773592540646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-54051612864022149672009-03-06T16:27:00.000-05:002009-03-06T16:27:00.000-05:00I have learned not to click on tiny urls. But I do...I have learned not to click on tiny urls. But I do go to real urls.<BR/><BR/>"Spike Lee did not coin "Magic Negro." David Ehrenstein writing in the LA Times in 2007 did....dmarks, I'm catching you in too many of these errors"<BR/><BR/>In this case, as with many, the error is yours. From <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia</A>: "Spike Lee popularized the term" (in 2001). It is a subset of an even earlier term "magical negro". <BR/><BR/>Ehrenstein and 2007 have nothing to do with it. I first heard it myself several years ago, long before 2007.<BR/><BR/>P.S. Spike Lee is a racist. He makes at least as many racist statements as Limbaugh does.<BR/><BR/>Arthur: Again with the colored people? My reading of Lee's work is accurate. And there is nothing nuanced about Lee's justification of mindless violence in "Do the Right Thing" (including his racist claim that black people are more likely to favor mindless violence). And there is no need to put quotes around Lee's racism. Spike Lee's racism is blatant enough that there is no doubt.<BR/><BR/>Jim: Have you actually seen Eastwood's Iwo Jima movies? Yes, this is another example of Lee's racism. And color did not matter much in the movies: he made both of them look rather grey.<BR/><BR/>Lee would distort history with his racist agenda. The people in the movies were the Iwo Jima flag-raising teams, and the Japanese defenders.... who, by history, were 100% White, Japanese, or Native American. What Lee demands is identical to a white racist wanting whites to fill the ranks of the Tuskegee Airmen. <BR/><BR/>He might as well moan that there were no African-Americans appearing among the Spartan army in "300".dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-13084935088366049602009-03-06T15:14:00.000-05:002009-03-06T15:14:00.000-05:00Spike Lee is a flat out racist. All his movies are...Spike Lee is a flat out racist. All his movies are about race. Every time he is in the news it's about race in one way or another. <BR/>That's why he was picking on Clint Eastwood for not having Afro-Americans in his war movies. The fact is there were no Afro-Americans that raised the flag at Iwo Jima during World War II. So what!<BR/>There are millions of movies without Afro-Americans in it. <BR/>If Clint Eastwood doesn't want to put blacks in a move, who cares? Blacks? Why? What difference is it going to make in your everyday life? And when Spike makes a movie every white in it is portrayed as an idiot. It reminds me of that TV sitcom "THE JEFFERSON'S' with that blabbering white guy idiot next door who was married to a smart black women and the white door man always looking for a hand out.<BR/><BR/>Tell me thats no racist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-53589024805169183242009-03-06T14:30:00.000-05:002009-03-06T14:30:00.000-05:00dmarks,Spike Lee did not coin "Magic Negro." David...dmarks,<BR/><BR/>Spike Lee did not coin "Magic Negro." David Ehrenstein writing in the LA Times in 2007 did. (He's an African-American man who writes about the cinema.)<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/8atnwq<BR/><BR/>dmarks, I'm catching you in too many of these errors. Pretty soon I'll have to fact check everything you write.<BR/><BR/>PS. Spike Lee is not racist.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-49297142023626515342009-03-06T14:13:00.000-05:002009-03-06T14:13:00.000-05:00Thanks for the nuanced reading of Spike Lee and hi...Thanks for the nuanced reading of Spike Lee and his body of work dmarks. I particularly was impressed with your reading of Lee's 'racism' as concerns persons of color. <BR/><BR/>Just kidding. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the laugh.Arthurstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01083956773592540646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-70412717465436765932009-03-06T13:27:00.000-05:002009-03-06T13:27:00.000-05:00Shaw: "Is there a reason Spike Lee is singled out ...Shaw: "Is there a reason Spike Lee is singled out for producing "violent" films"<BR/><BR/>There's a big reason...that is why context is important. The quote is from the time the film "Malcolm X" was released. This was big news, and being discussed all over. And guess who made the film "Malcolm X"? Yes, Spike Lee. That is why he was singled out. It was the big news of the day.<BR/><BR/>As I said, the other quotes look pretty bad. But it is just this one which is non-racist, and is aimed at a filmmaker whose previous most famous film justified mindless looting/rioting. <BR/><BR/>Arthur: I've read Lee's boneheaded claim before about justifying violence in "Do the Right Thing". It is in itself racist, as it contains the claim that blacks are more likely to favor the mindless violence of rioting/looting. I don't buy that. The thugs in the movie go after someone else, not the cops who killed Radio. Racism from Lee is hardly new, and hardly a thing of the past. Spike Lee is famous for bashing "golden boys" and coined the "Magic Negro" term.<BR/><BR/>And the riot in "Do the Right Thing" is rather mindless: it justifies making new victims out of innocent people. And yes, I have seen both that film and "Malcolm X"dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-75095878685916122662009-03-06T13:09:00.000-05:002009-03-06T13:09:00.000-05:00Arthurstone,Rush's fans do not want to face what h...Arthurstone,<BR/><BR/>Rush's fans do not want to face what he is: A racist who they've empowered and to whom they have given permission to express what they haven't the cajones to express themselves.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-53783737732688573412009-03-06T11:55:00.000-05:002009-03-06T11:55:00.000-05:00Limbaugh intoned ( and sadly people believed him):...Limbaugh intoned ( and sadly people believed him):<BR/><BR/><BR/>"SPIKE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT, LET'S COMPLETE THE EDUCATION EXPERIENCE. YOU SHOULD TELL THEM THAT THEY SHOULD LOOT THE THEATER ON THEIR WAY OUT." ---R. Limbaugh, 1992<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Ah yes Rush Limbaugh, cineaste. Avid reader of Cahiers du Cinema for certain. Well if they had an American edition focusing on porn perhaps. Angry black men always frighten white reactionaries. Spike Lee can really rev that crowd up. How dare he? <BR/><BR/>It isn't as if movies haven't dealt with the issue of people taking the law into their own hands. Spike's grumpy old sparring partner Clint Eastwood wouldn't have had a career without vigilantism. Thirty five years of angry white guys pissed off and not willing to take any more of it. 'Grand Torino' from just last year. A Dirty Harry for the geriatric set.<BR/><BR/>As for 'Do the Right Thing' from Wikipedia:<BR/><BR/>"One of many questions at the end of the film is whether Mookie 'does the right thing' when he throws the garbage can through the window, thus inciting the riot that destroys Sal's pizzeria. The question is directly raised by the contradictory quotations that end the film, one advocating non-violence, the other advocating violent self-defense in response to oppression. Spike Lee himself, however, has stated that only white viewers ask this question. Lee believes the key point is that Mookie was angry at the death of Radio Raheem, and that viewers who question the riot's justification are implicitly valuing white property over the life of a black man. Mookie tells Sal to "Motherfuck a window. Radio Raheem is dead". However, some of the other characters in the film, such as Da Mayor and Mister Señor, disapproved of the riot."<BR/><BR/>Some white film critics predicted riots at screenings of the film. Unsurprisingly none occurred. Poor Rush. Wrong once again.Arthurstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01083956773592540646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-65068131577935633272009-03-06T11:08:00.000-05:002009-03-06T11:08:00.000-05:00"In my opinion he's an overly sensitive insecure j..."In my opinion he's an overly sensitive insecure jerk that's always looking for some publicity. It's time he grew up and sees the world as more than just a black and white object."--jwright311<BR/><BR/>Just wondering--did you lift this little screed from some blogger who's criticizing Rush?Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-68331218382379995842009-03-06T11:06:00.000-05:002009-03-06T11:06:00.000-05:00Good catch, BBIdaho,jwright311, are you and Daniel...Good catch, BBIdaho,<BR/><BR/>jwright311, are you and Daniel Ruwe the same person or are you just a simple plagiarist?<BR/><BR/>There's no shame in using other people's written words so long as you attribute them.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-58158492218113630132009-03-06T10:48:00.000-05:002009-03-06T10:48:00.000-05:00Jwright311 seems to have lifted most of his commen...Jwright311 seems to have <A HREF="http://danielruwe.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">lifted</A> most of his comment.<BR/>Too bad, because the original was better.BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168862935045755393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-53741283145168540132009-03-06T10:39:00.000-05:002009-03-06T10:39:00.000-05:00There seems to be much dewy eyed nonsense from le...There seems to be much dewy eyed nonsense from lefties that I would like to chime in myself right here. <BR/>It's really plain and simple..After Bush was elected in 2000, many liberals were unhappy. They had two ways to deal with that disappointment—a) accept that they lost and vow to get ‘em next time, or b) embrace paranoia and start accusing Bush of stealing the election and becoming a dictator and lying the country into war and torture and fascism. They chose b.<BR/><BR/>So we got eight years of Michael Moore suggesting that Bush and bin Laden were playing for the same team, and of Keith Olbermann calling for Bush to resign, and dozens of crazy conspiracy theories about Iraq being a war for oil waged in order to prop up Halliburton.<BR/><BR/>This phase must have been embarrassing for rational liberals. It’s one thing to disagree with someone, it’s another to be become unhinged over Bush’s existence. But conservatives made hay with all the liberal insanity—they labeled it Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS for short) and used it as proof that liberals weren’t serious about the real problems facing the nation. Among themselves, conservatives swore that no matter how bad things looked, they’d never stoop so low as to engage in Obama Derangement Syndrome.<BR/><BR/>Then Obama got elected, and they didn’t waste any time. Conservatives managed, for the most part, to avoid the stupid sort of trutherism that said that Obama wasn’t actually a natural born citizen. But the restraint stopped there. Since Obama’s inauguration, the conservative response has been a) tax cuts, b) Rush Limbaugh, c) Atlas Shrugged, and d) accusations of socialism.<BR/><BR/>Obama’s stimulus package was a flawed bill—incredible amounts of pork, and it meant massive deficits. And it was (and still is) doubtful whether it would even succeed in its stated goal of pushing the economy out of recession.<BR/><BR/>All devastating points, and the Republicans did use them. But their solution? Tax cuts. Which would have been a great idea, except that Republicans have made tax cuts the centerpiece of their response to every financial crisis since Reagan. And given the size of the deficit (even without Obama’s stimulus package), cutting taxes would simply be irresponsible.<BR/><BR/>No conservative managed to particularly distinguish himself in the fight over the stimulus bill, so people looking for a leader of the Republican party looked to Rush Limbaugh for inspiration. And that caused a significant controversy, with liberals angrily demanding whether Republicans support Rush, and conservatives divided into pro-Limbaugh and anti-Limbaugh camps; the former considering Rush a real asset and a true conservative leader, and the other vociferously disagreeing.<BR/><BR/>How about third option: who cares? Well, everyone does now, due to size of the controversy. But it shouldn’t have been a controversy at all. If you like Rush, enjoy him by all means. If not, find a new leader you can get behind. But Rush isn’t going to go away just because some people think he’s too influential.<BR/>And while I'm here, let me please put in my 2 cents on that little racist punk Spike Lee who is just and angry young black man who thinks the world revolves around his cheap stupid racist movies. In my opinion he's an overly sensitive insecure jerk that's always looking for some publicity. It's time he grew up and sees the world as more than just a black and white object.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-12804049782078133142009-03-06T10:25:00.000-05:002009-03-06T10:25:00.000-05:00dmarks,Is there a reason Spike Lee is singled out ...dmarks,<BR/><BR/>Is there a reason Spike Lee is singled out for producing "violent" films and for being accused of encouraging violence through their production?<BR/><BR/>That's pure b.s.<BR/><BR/>What about other films that glorify violence? Or are we to criticize only Lee?<BR/><BR/>That smells like racism to me.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-64365146379790218902009-03-06T09:44:00.000-05:002009-03-06T09:44:00.000-05:00BTW - I think we should all join hands and sing a ...BTW - I think we should all join hands and sing a round or two of Kumbaya for Debbie! :)rockynchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772988855661101621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-70791346175428668232009-03-06T09:43:00.000-05:002009-03-06T09:43:00.000-05:00Shaw,I have a lot going on this summer already, bu...Shaw,<BR/><BR/>I have a lot going on this summer already, but, you never know. So, I putting your email addy into my address book so I don't lose it! (I'm terribel about losing things) and if I ever manage to hit ole Bean Town, you are the first person I'll try to meet up with.rockynchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772988855661101621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883838569462983439.post-88583716766326264872009-03-06T09:13:00.000-05:002009-03-06T09:13:00.000-05:00"And no matter how you spin it, it's racist."Not o..."And no matter how you spin it, it's racist."<BR/><BR/>Not on this one, with Spike Lee's most famous movie up to that point being one where he encouraged rioting and looting.<BR/><BR/>But that is just one out of the 5 or so you have so far.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.com