James Dobson, Focus on the Family:
"Our country really does seem in complete disarray. I’m not talking politically, I’m not talking about the result of the November sixth election; I am saying that something has gone wrong in America and that we have turned our back on God.
I mean millions of people have decided that God doesn’t exist, or he’s irrelevant to me and we have killed fifty-four million babies and the institution of marriage is right on the verge of a complete redefinition.
Believe me, that is going to have consequences too.
And a lot of these things are happening around us, and somebody is going to get mad at me for saying what I am about to say right now, but I am going to give you my honest opinion: I think we have turned our back on the Scripture and on God Almighty and I think he has allowed judgment to fall upon us. I think that’s what’s going on."
I really don't know who this James Dobson is, since I normally don't listen to or read anything by such attention-seeking pseudo-pastors like him, or Huckabee, or some guy named Bryan Fisher. IMO, they're not men of any sort of god. They're money-making celebs with a religious schtick, unlike the real thing, such as our friend, Dave Miller, who actually does the hard, unglamorous work of ministering in the field with little or no recognition and even less money. Dave is the living example of being our brothers' and sisters' keeper and caring for the least among us. He's the real thing.
Is there any rational person who actually believes that a god's "judgment" would be to slaughter innocent children and adults because some folks in this country don't read a religion's holy book, or because gays who love each other can marry, or because children don't pray out loud to one particular god in our public schools?
What utter rubbish! Who listens to this, or worse, believes it?
Those children and adults in Newtown died because we've accepted a culture of violence and guns and thrown up our hands believing there's nothing we can do to stop it. I don't believe that. I believe we will have to change; and if that means putting some needed restrictions on the 2nd Amendment, so be it. We will survive as a free nation if we must do that. Don't believe the NRA or anyone else who tells you differently.
The Newtown massacre did not happen because we "turned our backs" on God, it happened because we turned our backs on common sense gun restrictions and allowed a political entity, the NRA, that represents gun manufacturers and that influences and threatens any politician who tries to do anything about gun control, we allowed that association to become more important than the lives of our precious children.
The Huckabees, Fishers, and Dobsons in this country seem to be in collusion with those who want you to look everywhere but at our violent, gun-soaked culture to explain the slaughter that happened in Newtown last Friday. They're wrong. And this time, we need to tell them so.
Marriage equality, pro-choice, and freedom to believe or NOT believe in gods did not kill 27 people in Newtown. A disturbed young man with easy access to lethal weapons did.
20 comments:
A god that kills children is no god of mine.
This is the god that Dobson worships.
Jerry,
The idea that some god would massacre children because he/she/it is p.o.'d people aren't reading a book or praying out loud is absurd, of course. But charlatans like Dobson count on his followers to not use reason when they listen to the shyte that comes out of his ignorant brain.
The idea of that sort of godly retribution is solely the fevered musings from Dobson's and Huckabee's and Fisher's ignorant brains.
This thinking is no different from the ancients who believed they had to sacrifice women and children to appease angry gods.
None of those pseudo-pastors have evolved in their thinking since those primitive minds thought that way.
Dobson has been around for years. I think my ex wife had a book he wrote back in the seventies or very early eighties.
Anyway, you're right. If there is a God I'm quite sure any judgement he might render for the things Dobson points to would most certainly not be the death of innocent young children, by any means.
A socon preaching to the choir in this case. The rest of America, like you just tune him out.
First off, I would like to wholeheartedly agree with you about our blogger buddy Dave Miller. Instead of talking about it, he is actually out there laboring in The Lord's vineyard.
Now, please allow me to proffer an explanation of Dr Dobson's remarks and a defense.
Unlike Pat Robertson or other loonies, he is not saying our God, in an angry fit of bloodlust, smote those children.
What he is saying comes from a solid Judaic and Christian belief: That God has given us free will. If we follow his ways, we will avoid much heartache, but if we abandon him, we really abandon ourselves and our culture to our basest instincts, and we are fallen creatures given to the worst horrors and depravities.
I'm not trying to start an atheist v. Christian fight here. I respect the beliefs of others. I am merely trying to put his remarks in context, and I am well aware of the failings of self-identified Christians, including my own.
Also, Dr Dobson is the author of the child rearing book, Dare to Discipline. He is not a minister, but a psychologist and former school teacher who dispenses biblically-based parenting advice.
Merry Christmas
We wouldn't want to offend any of these hate filled Christians
Well, I did say I didn't know who Dobson was. I thought he was a minister of some sort.
Getting to his point about his belief that "we've turned our back on God."
It simply is not true. We are THE MOST RELIGIOUS western democracy. I think the only other countries that are MORE religious than the US are in the Middle East.
So, no, Americans IMO have not turned their backs on God. In my little community here in Boston that is about one square mile, we have 3 Catholic churches and one Protestant church, for example. That's a lot of places where people turn toward God every week.
According to a Gallup poll taken in 2011, 9 out of 10 Americans believe in God.
If nearly every American believes in God, what does Dobson mean by turning away? You suggest that people would avoid heartache if they just follow his way, which gets the discussion into all sorts of deadends, because what does "following his ways" mean? The 10 Commandments?
Most of them have nothing to do with being a fallen human. And I would guess that a majority of Americans do NOT commit murder, steal, and commit adultery. So I don't see a nationwide "falling away" from the Judeo-Christian teachings.
And what does Dobson mean when he says because some people have "turned their backs" on God, he has "allowed judgment to fall upon us."
What is he talking about--"allowed judgment to fall upon us?" That sounds passive to me. Does this imply that God sees evil coming to people and just allows it in order to punish? To allow "judgment" [disaster] to befall innocent people who may be quite devoted to God and his teachings?
That's what Dobson's words sound like to me.
And I reject his supposition for what happened in Newtown.
I cannot theologically defend Dobson's remarks, since I'm not a theologian, I just wanted to attempt to put them in context.
Church attendance is on a downward trend, as is the number of self-identified Christians. We have more out of wedlock births, murders, rapes, although the crime peaked in the early 90's, it has not fallen yet to pre 1965 levels.
Also, those of us with daughters are horrified to see, in this age of equal rights, a whole new dirty age of objectification of women, and many young men acting like diseased apes instead of gentlemen.
Our popular culture is not very uplifting either, so that could be where he's coming from.
I realize all of this is debatable, but my main point was to explain the free will thing. We are not God's automatons. God does not will children to die, but his creatures can and do go wrong resulting in wars, famines and all the rest of the vast panoply of human misery.
Shaw... there are not words to express my thanks for your words of encouragement...
Have a wonderful Christmas season...
In a recent poll, 92% of Americans claim to believe in God and over 40% believe in Creationism.
It would appear, with statistics like that, then if you follow the logic of "God turning his back on us" it can only be because we are not following his true word while professing to believe in him.
That would then mean that our real sin is in following the religious leadership of people like Dodson, Fisher, and Huckabee, to name just a few.
It might be time for the 92% to question their religion.
It seems that most of these mass murders are committed by individuals who believe in nothing.
Religion is often used to support or excuse behavior. It's God's will is a standard line for I have no control. Media preachers are about the money and the fame and making outlandish statements increase both.
If you believe in God than how can you believe it is his will to murder innocent children.
Everyone needs something to believe in, I would prefer to believe in me.
For the record, I do not believe God "turns his back to us." Rather, we turn out backs to God.
"Media preachers are about the money and the fame and making outlandish statements increase both.
Same can be said about republicans!
Ethical and moral behaviour is NOT dependant on religon. Nor does religion insure ethical and moral behaviour.
Religion is the traditions of man and therefore flawed. Spirituality on the other hand, well... I think I'll leave it at that.
I have been labelled a Leninist, a socialist, and somehow I am always grouped together with liberals.
There is one problem, I believe in God. Thus, following the stupidity that defines the logic of our political debates I cannot be anything I am labelled because only Conservatives believe in God.
So I found a classification that suits me quite well, I am a "Principled Conservative."
That is why I attack libertarians and Randians at every opportunity, because they worship false Gods; hubris and narcissism. Oh, and now they have the Gods of greed, wealth, and "job creators."
Liberals on the other hand have a much better grasp of the true meaning of the word of God as clarified by Jesus, in the New Testament, but they are ashamed to acknowledge God.
Its understandable, considering that in our culture satan speaks as God, when people like Dodson, Huckabee, and the likes claim to represent the Word.
I wrote about this today on my blog
http://taospeaks.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/has-america-lost-its-way/ and I realized the whole time I was writing it that the Rational Nation folks would attack me as would the folks at the Swash Zone...
TAO,
I don't define believers and nonbelievers by political affiliation, since many liberals--my family and close friends--are believers, and I know of many conservatives who are nonbelievers.
I don't believe liberals are ashamed to acknowledge their beliefs; I think they're less inclined to be like the Pharisee in the NT parable.
Those who are truly scorned and ostracized in the political arena to the extent that they have to be secretive about it, are nonbelievers, atheists, nontheists. It's a fact that someone with no belief in gods could not, at this time, be elected to the presidency, while other western democracies do not have that problem.
When a nonbeliever, nontheist, atheist, agnostic dares to express his or her lack of belief in gods, they are vilified.
Contrary to what I've read on conservative religious blogs--conservative in this case, meaning orthodox--it is the nonbeliever, not the believer, who is victimized.
It is a fact that, at least in this country, in order to attain the highest elective office, one HAS to profess belief, even if our Constitution prohibits it. And even though our current president has made his Christianity clear and evident, there are those who dismiss him as not a "real" Christian, or a "secret Muslim," as though being Muslim were the same as being an ax murderer.
So not only must someone who aspires to high office be religious, she or he must be the right sort of religious person, otherwise, she or he will raise suspicions.
This, among other reasons, is why I am a nontheist.
Here, via Infidel753, is a very good summation of where I stand on the "belief" spectrum.
Are there any religious fundamentalist liberals? I can't think of any.
I too would caution trying to pin religious labels on people based upon their ideology.
The Latin America left is shot through with religion, with 60's protest music appealing to God and people's Christian consciences.
Violeta Parra, a Chilena in the time of Allende and Pinochet, wrote and sang a song entitled, "What would the Pope Say?" in an effort to shame Pinochet.
"religious fundamentalist liberals"
..does sound like an oxy oxy moron.
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