Herd... Don't get your hopes up. Any politician who would limit group sizes and maskless events in his state, and then be stupid enough to let photos of himself doing just that get out, has some issues.
Longtime CA political watcher Sherry Bebitch Jeffe called it the stupidest act by any major politician in a long time.
Shaw... Elder got essentially the same percentage of the vote that Trump got when he was trounced in CA. Within one percent. And yet the extremist clowns are crying fraud and saying the election was stolen from Elder.
It's just too hard for them to accept that America does not want their version of our country, nor their politicians.
Don't put false hopes in his future political career. After all, he is a politician. It seems the Democrats are short of rising stars to run for president, so anything can happen. Biden can be beaten unless the country locks into group think for a Democrat.
I’m sorry but the recall was a complete and unmitigated disaster for Republicans and the forces pushing it. They got destroyed and in some ways it’s the first concrete piece of evidence that Trumpism has enduring political costs.
And the Trump cultists are repeating his lie -- that there was election fraud when Newsome blew Elder away!!!
Ms. Shaw, I have a daughter living in N Cali so am familiar with their attitudes. You really can't judge the attitudes of Californians with any other species in this country. They love taxes, homeless, million dollar bungalows, incompetent forest management, pretty hypocritical politicians and the American royalty of hollywood. The recall was a stupid idea because it stood no chance of succeeding. The cost of this election could have bought tents for half a block of homeless in LA.
Most of the other states have some who are sane but that cannot be said for Cali.
skud: "You really can't judge the attitudes of Californians with any other species in this country."
Not true. Californians are not different from other Americans. Just because there are folks who disapprove of their life styles and politics, that doesn't make them foreign.
My daughter has lived there since 1994, and I've spent what would amount 5 years of my life there. In addition to visiting and spending long periods of time with my daughter's family over the years, before she moved to SoCal, my late husband was a vice president of a big tech company for 20 years in Silicon Valley, and I often accompanied him on his frequent business trips to California -- as well as trips to visit his brother who lived in Sebastapol, CA. My sister's son lived in Manhattan Beach, and I have a first cousin who moved from Boston to Sacramento in the 70s. My brother has a son who lives near Santa Rosa. Wow! just typing all this makes me realize how connected I am to California!
The rest of your generalizations are just that.
As for your bigoted statement that there are no sane people in California (does that include your daughter?), you probably don't know that San Francisco has not had to close down any of its schools this school year because of any COVID breakout. They have a 90% vaccine rate, and so no schools had to be closed down.
Compare that to Florida and Texas where their "brilliant" governors are playing Darwinism with their citizens. (I also had experience in both those states: My step-daughter and her family lived in Plano, Texas, for almost 20 years, and I had a second home in Clearwater, Florida, for 10 years. I know a lot about Florida, and a bit about Texas.)
A lot of people would observe that the folks in Trumplandian states who don't believe in science and who ingest horse-dewormer medication as a defense against a virus are the crackpots and weirdos.
Apparently you live in a bubble and believe you and your neighbors represent all of America.
Ms. Shaw, That is what makes this country great. If you don't like he policies of where you live you can move.
If Cali is so great why are so many people and businesses leaving with many of them going to TX and FLA. Might be the same reason thousands are crossing the southern border to enter the US, better way of life.
Follow the science is a very difficult concept because of all the non science advise people are getting. Get vaccinated and you are protected but wait still wear a mask if you fly and are around people you don't know. It is truly unfortunate getting vaccinated is a political tool that puts people in danger. Of course the president who was going to unite the country now uses vaccinations to divide the country.
If you take a look at the fly over states they may not have the population but are a better gauge for American values than the coasties.
What the hell is sane about the leadership in Texas and Florida?
Skud is one of those special ones who sees only his kind as "real Americans". His disgust and demeaning scorn for those not like him are in the extreme nationalist tradition of fascists like Hitler and Mussolini. (Apologies to Jerry.)
Skud wins the Trump/Gohmert/Boebert bigotry prize.
Skud, Skud, Skud... so much snark, and like many of your generalizations, full of untruths.
You spouted... "They [Californians] love taxes, homeless, million dollar bungalows, incompetent forest management, pretty hypocritical politicians and the American royalty of hollywood [sic].
That certainly is the view of the State of Jefferson crowd as it regards the rest of the state. The part of California that feeds the state, pays the taxes that build roads in the rural backwoods up north, pay for firemen to keep the residents of that area safe and make sure the kids of ppl like your daughter have schools and libraries for their kids.
But by and large, most Californias are not big fans of high taxes, are vexxed by the homeless problem, want good forest management, hate political hypocrisy and are not all that enamored of the Hollywood elite.
In short, they are not unlike the 60-65 percent of Americans, both liberal and conservative, Dems and Republicans, from the right and the left who populate America.
Your generalizations about California are as dangerous for America as the generalizations some liberals make about all you southerners.
Rev, I never thought the recall would be successful and yes the areas away from LA, SFO, SAN are more reasoned. Why is it everything I post you come back that it is snark.
Dubya,
There is all this noise about voter suppression in republican controlled states. here is also a lot of noise about the rich paying their fair share.
Can you name one thing about the voter suppression in GA, TX and FL. Since 50% of the country does not pay FIT and since the top 1% pay 40% of FIT collected, what do you consider a fair share. Shouldn't everyone pay into the running of the government even if it is a nominal amount. Wouldn't paying a fair share be fair?
Skud... as for your snark, it's how in most every comment, you have a back handed slam at someone not even mentioned in the original post. Now onto your other items that are not part of the original post.
As for voter suppression, no, I won't play. and here's why...
There was no meaningful voter fraud in the 2020 election, so ANY "reform" is bound to lower the amount of people voting, a clear GOP objective. The GOP and its supporters have been very open in saying if we allow more people to vote, they will never win an election again.
So since they recognize the great majority of Americans are not happy with their policies, the only way they can suppress the vote is through "strengthening" voter security to prevent fraud.
Except, even GOP legislators writing these laws, for example in Texas, admitted there was no fraud.
So GOP partisans are solving a problem that does not exist. Why? Plain and simple, many GOP supporters, like Geeez and her mostly myopic readers, believe or feel there was fraud, even though there has been no evidence.
And what is the evidence she and her readers cite? Their preferred candidate lost!
It's ridiculous.
Finally, as it relates to taxes, let me say this. No, I do not feel extreme low end and low income ppl need to pay income taxes. They pay sales taxes, property taxes [including through their rent], gas taxes, road taxes when they register a vehicle and more.
As for the rich, I say this... carried income needs to be taxed. Just ask Warren Buffet. If he makes millions in interest or carried income, why should that not be taxed he asks?
I'd like to see the maximum earnings subject to the Social Security tax increased from $142,800 a year to $250,000. this would go a long ways to shoring up social security. That's a hit of at max about $7500. If a guy is making 250K, he can afford another 7500.
For people making making over say... 10 million a year, after deductions, raise the tax on the excess to 50%. I know it's a lot, but understand this, that tax increase will only be on the bucks above 10 million. Besides, that's well below the 90% rate the GOP led Eisenhower admin had when we literally built America into the 20th century. New roads, universities, libraries, etc.
We should also tax off shore accounts used by the extreme rich to avoid taxes. Estate taxes above a reasonable amount, and an inheritance over 100 million is extreme in my book, should be subject to higher taxes.
And then, instead of us having more deductions and loopholes as you earn more money, we should have less. Most ppl making under 50K really can mostly file their taxes on a postcard.
The millionaires and billionaires should see the same.
All income, less the standard deductions, is subject to tax. Take your taxable income and you can lower it with any government tax cuts. No one below the poverty line is expected to pay federal income taxes. Period.
That's what you and I and most people posting her do. Should Bezos and his buddies have to do the same?
Again, even Warren Multi Billionaire Buffet agrees.
Skud said, "It is truly unfortunate getting vaccinated is a political tool that puts people in danger." That is just an out-and-out lie. It's not even worth addressing any further.
... that getting vaccinated HAS BECOME a political tool used (by Trumpublicans and some real republicans) that has resulted in putting people in danger.
RN, Getting vaccinated or not is a political tool. Now the esteemed donnie lemon has turned it into a racial issue when he insulted people who don't get the vaccine calling them stupid and should be shunned. No one seems to be hollering about the thousands crossing the border needing to be tested. Of course it is not a crisis to some who don't live close to the border.
Rev, Have you read any of the voter laws. Now in some places you have to show proof you have been vaccinated but do not to vote, that seems to not make sense.
Wealth has privileges, always has and always will and it really doesn't matter what political side you reside. Congress makes the tax laws and they have no intention of making them fair because it would strip them of their power to control. Make the first 60K in income tax free for everyone and then pay a percentage over that. I don't know what that percentage is 15-20% and that way everyone contributes and the poor don't get penalized. The problem is the RICH can't use all the loopholes to avoid paying taxes and they would scream. All of our elected elite are considered rich by all standards so they are not going to penalize themselves.
Mike, Very good article on skud running. He did point out that those not trained who do it. It is not the preferred method of flying especially in more dense airspace and everyone would prefer CAVU or IFR but sometimes that just doesn't work. I will assume you don't fly or you would have a better understanding of what it takes. Does shud running have risks, sure but so does crossing the street if you don't know what you are doing.
skud: "No one seems to be hollering about the thousands crossing the border needing to be tested. Of course it is not a crisis to some who don't live close to the border."
The Wall Street Journal, (not a liberal newspaper) does not agree with your statement.
While this is true skud wealth and ignornace seem to run hand in hand. Or put another way, greed and ignorance lies at the bottom of climate deniers and racists thinking proceesses. It IS what is slowly destroying mother earth and the values that truly make up a compassionate and happy life skud.
Perhaps, when it REALLY is too late to do anything about it all, the most egregious perpetrators of our global problems will wake up. And, it will be THEM crying the loudest. Without accepting ressponsibility for any part of our destruction.
Ms. Shaw, You know I did not say they are fueling the surge I did say they are not tested before entry. Soon if you work for the government you must get tested to come to work. Doesn't that seem backwards to you.
If you are an eastcoasties there is not crisis at the southern border. If you are in Del Rio you declare it a disaster zone.
I know you are all for crisis joe because he is a nice guy but he is creating a mess. The unite Americans president is blaming everyone but him for all that is happening when the buck stops with him. Border situation (can't say crisis), inflation at 6%, gasoline shortage, Afghanistan fiasco, 13 soldiers killed, covid surge, NKO launch. According to him it is all trumps and republicans fault.
find it hysterical that Skidmark suddenly NOW wants the "buck to stop here." Where was he the last 4 ears? Oh, that's right, he was still too busy blaming everything in the world negative on Obama. Hypocrisy, meet your identical twin, Skidmark the Whatabout king.
Blueballs, If you will follow crisis joe's readings he is the one who said the buck stops with him. That was followed buy blaming everyone for his failures. Of course he is the one that read he will get our enemies no matter where they are which resulted in the deaths of ten civilians. He also read we can get a booster in September which turned out to be untrue. He really needs to have better handlers because so far he has been a disaster for the country. I know trump was worse but he is not in office anymore.
Nor did you once call Trump out for his countless lies, mistakes and traitorous behaviors, Skid. Yes, there was a mistake by the military. It shouldn't happen, but sometimes things will get screwed up, even in our military. If you'd ever served, you would know that and not use our men and women like political chess pieces in your obvious little game. As for the booster shot issue, This is all emerging science and with that there is bound to be an occasional difference of opinion. Who and when to get a booster is a very different animal from injecting bleach or UV light into the body. I wasn't reading the blogs then but I suspect you said nothing about that.
And FYI "The buck stops here," was first uttered by Harry S. Truman and has been widely accepted as reality by every president, except one, since then. Wanna guess who refused EVER to take responsibility for ANYTHING?
Okay Skid, I've spanked your brain long enough. Run upstairs to your mommy and get a cookie for, at least, having the courage to come back time after time knowing you will likely be a solo flyer to your odd view of the world. I do give you major credit for that. Now, run along before I say something nice to you. (((YYYIKKKKESESSS))) Neither of us wants that to happen. :)
26 comments:
Newsom's going to make an excellent president.
I don't think this is the last of it. Newsome could be campaigning for the rest of his political career.
Herd... Don't get your hopes up. Any politician who would limit group sizes and maskless events in his state, and then be stupid enough to let photos of himself doing just that get out, has some issues.
Longtime CA political watcher Sherry Bebitch Jeffe called it the stupidest act by any major politician in a long time.
Shaw... Elder got essentially the same percentage of the vote that Trump got when he was trounced in CA. Within one percent. And yet the extremist clowns are crying fraud and saying the election was stolen from Elder.
It's just too hard for them to accept that America does not want their version of our country, nor their politicians.
If Newsome is ever President I hope the cities all across America don't turn into LA oe Oakland.
Don't put false hopes in his future political career. After all, he is a politician. It seems the Democrats are short of rising stars to run for president, so anything can happen. Biden can be beaten unless the country locks into group think for a Democrat.
Jerry
Chris Hayes said it best:
Chris Hayes
@chrislhayes
I’m sorry but the recall was a complete and unmitigated disaster for Republicans and the forces pushing it. They got destroyed and in some ways it’s the first concrete piece of evidence that Trumpism has enduring political costs.
And the Trump cultists are repeating his lie -- that there was election fraud when Newsome blew Elder away!!!
Ms. Shaw, I have a daughter living in N Cali so am familiar with their attitudes. You really can't judge the attitudes of Californians with any other species in this country. They love taxes, homeless, million dollar bungalows, incompetent forest management, pretty hypocritical politicians and the American royalty of hollywood. The recall was a stupid idea because it stood no chance of succeeding. The cost of this election could have bought tents for half a block of homeless in LA.
Most of the other states have some who are sane but that cannot be said for Cali.
skud: "You really can't judge the attitudes of Californians with any other species in this country."
Not true. Californians are not different from other Americans. Just because there are folks who disapprove of their life styles and politics, that doesn't make them foreign.
My daughter has lived there since 1994, and I've spent what would amount 5 years of my life there. In addition to visiting and spending long periods of time with my daughter's family over the years, before she moved to SoCal, my late husband was a vice president of a big tech company for 20 years in Silicon Valley, and I often accompanied him on his frequent business trips to California -- as well as trips to visit his brother who lived in Sebastapol, CA. My sister's son lived in Manhattan Beach, and I have a first cousin who moved from Boston to Sacramento in the 70s. My brother has a son who lives near Santa Rosa. Wow! just typing all this makes me realize how connected I am to California!
The rest of your generalizations are just that.
As for your bigoted statement that there are no sane people in California (does that include your daughter?), you probably don't know that San Francisco has not had to close down any of its schools this school year because of any COVID breakout. They have a 90% vaccine rate, and so no schools had to be closed down.
Compare that to Florida and Texas where their "brilliant" governors are playing Darwinism with their citizens. (I also had experience in both those states: My step-daughter and her family lived in Plano, Texas, for almost 20 years, and I had a second home in Clearwater, Florida, for 10 years. I know a lot about Florida, and a bit about Texas.)
A lot of people would observe that the folks in Trumplandian states who don't believe in science and who ingest horse-dewormer medication as a defense against a virus are the crackpots and weirdos.
Apparently you live in a bubble and believe you and your neighbors represent all of America.
HINT: You don't.
Ms. Shaw,
That is what makes this country great. If you don't like he policies of where you live you can move.
If Cali is so great why are so many people and businesses leaving with many of them going to TX and FLA. Might be the same reason thousands are crossing the southern border to enter the US, better way of life.
Follow the science is a very difficult concept because of all the non science advise people are getting. Get vaccinated and you are protected but wait still wear a mask if you fly and are around people you don't know. It is truly unfortunate getting vaccinated is a political tool that puts people in danger. Of course the president who was going to unite the country now uses vaccinations to divide the country.
If you take a look at the fly over states they may not have the population but are a better gauge for American values than the coasties.
What the hell is sane about the leadership in Texas and Florida?
Skud is one of those special ones who sees only his kind as "real Americans". His disgust and demeaning scorn for those not like him are in the extreme nationalist tradition of fascists like Hitler and Mussolini. (Apologies to Jerry.)
Skud wins the Trump/Gohmert/Boebert bigotry prize.
Skud, Skud, Skud... so much snark, and like many of your generalizations, full of untruths.
You spouted... "They [Californians] love taxes, homeless, million dollar bungalows, incompetent forest management, pretty hypocritical politicians and the American royalty of hollywood [sic].
That certainly is the view of the State of Jefferson crowd as it regards the rest of the state. The part of California that feeds the state, pays the taxes that build roads in the rural backwoods up north, pay for firemen to keep the residents of that area safe and make sure the kids of ppl like your daughter have schools and libraries for their kids.
But by and large, most Californias are not big fans of high taxes, are vexxed by the homeless problem, want good forest management, hate political hypocrisy and are not all that enamored of the Hollywood elite.
In short, they are not unlike the 60-65 percent of Americans, both liberal and conservative, Dems and Republicans, from the right and the left who populate America.
Your generalizations about California are as dangerous for America as the generalizations some liberals make about all you southerners.
What the hell is sane about the leadership in Texas and Florida?
In a word... NOTHING
Rev, I never thought the recall would be successful and yes the areas away from LA, SFO, SAN are more reasoned. Why is it everything I post you come back that it is snark.
Dubya,
There is all this noise about voter suppression in republican controlled states. here is also a lot of noise about the rich paying their fair share.
Can you name one thing about the voter suppression in GA, TX and FL.
Since 50% of the country does not pay FIT and since the top 1% pay 40% of FIT collected, what do you consider a fair share. Shouldn't everyone pay into the running of the government even if it is a nominal amount. Wouldn't paying a fair share be fair?
Skud... as for your snark, it's how in most every comment, you have a back handed slam at someone not even mentioned in the original post. Now onto your other items that are not part of the original post.
As for voter suppression, no, I won't play. and here's why...
There was no meaningful voter fraud in the 2020 election, so ANY "reform" is bound to lower the amount of people voting, a clear GOP objective. The GOP and its supporters have been very open in saying if we allow more people to vote, they will never win an election again.
So since they recognize the great majority of Americans are not happy with their policies, the only way they can suppress the vote is through "strengthening" voter security to prevent fraud.
Except, even GOP legislators writing these laws, for example in Texas, admitted there was no fraud.
So GOP partisans are solving a problem that does not exist. Why? Plain and simple, many GOP supporters, like Geeez and her mostly myopic readers, believe or feel there was fraud, even though there has been no evidence.
And what is the evidence she and her readers cite? Their preferred candidate lost!
It's ridiculous.
Finally, as it relates to taxes, let me say this. No, I do not feel extreme low end and low income ppl need to pay income taxes. They pay sales taxes, property taxes [including through their rent], gas taxes, road taxes when they register a vehicle and more.
As for the rich, I say this... carried income needs to be taxed. Just ask Warren Buffet. If he makes millions in interest or carried income, why should that not be taxed he asks?
I'd like to see the maximum earnings subject to the Social Security tax increased from $142,800 a year to $250,000. this would go a long ways to shoring up social security. That's a hit of at max about $7500. If a guy is making 250K, he can afford another 7500.
For people making making over say... 10 million a year, after deductions, raise the tax on the excess to 50%. I know it's a lot, but understand this, that tax increase will only be on the bucks above 10 million. Besides, that's well below the 90% rate the GOP led Eisenhower admin had when we literally built America into the 20th century. New roads, universities, libraries, etc.
We should also tax off shore accounts used by the extreme rich to avoid taxes. Estate taxes above a reasonable amount, and an inheritance over 100 million is extreme in my book, should be subject to higher taxes.
And then, instead of us having more deductions and loopholes as you earn more money, we should have less. Most ppl making under 50K really can mostly file their taxes on a postcard.
The millionaires and billionaires should see the same.
All income, less the standard deductions, is subject to tax. Take your taxable income and you can lower it with any government tax cuts. No one below the poverty line is expected to pay federal income taxes. Period.
That's what you and I and most people posting her do. Should Bezos and his buddies have to do the same?
Again, even Warren Multi Billionaire Buffet agrees.
Skud said, "It is truly unfortunate getting vaccinated is a political tool that puts people in danger."
That is just an out-and-out lie. It's not even worth addressing any further.
What's a skud runner? A crazy person.
https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/the-pilots-lounge-26scud-running-discussing-a-delicate-subject/
skud probably meant to say... jt is truly unfortunate g
Hate cell phones...
... that getting vaccinated HAS BECOME a political tool used (by Trumpublicans and some real republicans) that has resulted in putting people in danger.
And THAT is the TRUTH.
RN, Getting vaccinated or not is a political tool. Now the esteemed donnie lemon has turned it into a racial issue when he insulted people who don't get the vaccine calling them stupid and should be shunned. No one seems to be hollering about the thousands crossing the border needing to be tested. Of course it is not a crisis to some who don't live close to the border.
Rev, Have you read any of the voter laws. Now in some places you have to show proof you have been vaccinated but do not to vote, that seems to not make sense.
Wealth has privileges, always has and always will and it really doesn't matter what political side you reside. Congress makes the tax laws and they have no intention of making them fair because it would strip them of their power to control. Make the first 60K in income tax free for everyone and then pay a percentage over that. I don't know what that percentage is 15-20% and that way everyone contributes and the poor don't get penalized. The problem is the RICH can't use all the loopholes to avoid paying taxes and they would scream. All of our elected elite are considered rich by all standards so they are not going to penalize themselves.
Mike, Very good article on skud running. He did point out that those not trained who do it. It is not the preferred method of flying especially in more dense airspace and everyone would prefer CAVU or IFR but sometimes that just doesn't work. I will assume you don't fly or you would have a better understanding of what it takes. Does shud running have risks, sure but so does crossing the street if you don't know what you are doing.
skud: "No one seems to be hollering about the thousands crossing the border needing to be tested. Of course it is not a crisis to some who don't live close to the border."
The Wall Street Journal, (not a liberal newspaper) does not agree with your statement.
Why Illegal U.S. Border Crossings Likely Aren’t Fueling the Covid-19 Surge
Migrant arrests are hitting records, but many who are intercepted are sent to Mexico while those who stay are often tested for the virus
Are you reading Newsmax, OAN, and FAUX NOOZ?
Wealth has priviledgess.
While this is true skud wealth and ignornace seem to run hand in hand. Or put another way, greed and ignorance lies at the bottom of climate deniers and racists thinking proceesses. It IS what is slowly destroying mother earth and the values that truly make up a compassionate and happy life skud.
Perhaps, when it REALLY is too late to do anything about it all, the most egregious perpetrators of our global problems will wake up. And, it will be THEM crying the loudest. Without accepting ressponsibility for any part of our destruction.
And even then someetimes it is dangerous. As much as we like to think we're in control we really are not.
All anyone can control is their own actions. Never deny there are always others actors.
Ms. Shaw, You know I did not say they are fueling the surge I did say they are not tested before entry. Soon if you work for the government you must get tested to come to work. Doesn't that seem backwards to you.
If you are an eastcoasties there is not crisis at the southern border. If you are in Del Rio you declare it a disaster zone.
I know you are all for crisis joe because he is a nice guy but he is creating a mess. The unite Americans president is blaming everyone but him for all that is happening when the buck stops with him. Border situation (can't say crisis), inflation at 6%, gasoline shortage, Afghanistan fiasco, 13 soldiers killed, covid surge, NKO launch. According to him it is all trumps and republicans fault.
find it hysterical that Skidmark suddenly NOW wants the "buck to stop here." Where was he the last 4 ears? Oh, that's right, he was still too busy blaming everything in the world negative on Obama.
Hypocrisy, meet your identical twin, Skidmark the Whatabout king.
Blueballs, If you will follow crisis joe's readings he is the one who said the buck stops with him. That was followed buy blaming everyone for his failures. Of course he is the one that read he will get our enemies no matter where they are which resulted in the deaths of ten civilians. He also read we can get a booster in September which turned out to be untrue. He really needs to have better handlers because so far he has been a disaster for the country. I know trump was worse but he is not in office anymore.
Nor did you once call Trump out for his countless lies, mistakes and traitorous behaviors, Skid.
Yes, there was a mistake by the military. It shouldn't happen, but sometimes things will get screwed up, even in our military. If you'd ever served, you would know that and not use our men and women like political chess pieces in your obvious little game.
As for the booster shot issue, This is all emerging science and with that there is bound to be an occasional difference of opinion. Who and when to get a booster is a very different animal from injecting bleach or UV light into the body. I wasn't reading the blogs then but I suspect you said nothing about that.
And FYI "The buck stops here," was first uttered by Harry S. Truman and has been widely accepted as reality by every president, except one, since then. Wanna guess who refused EVER to take responsibility for ANYTHING?
Okay Skid, I've spanked your brain long enough. Run upstairs to your mommy and get a cookie for, at least, having the courage to come back time after time knowing you will likely be a solo flyer to your odd view of the world. I do give you major credit for that. Now, run along before I say something nice to you. (((YYYIKKKKESESSS))) Neither of us wants that to happen. :)
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