A Thank You to P.E. commenter and guest poster, Dave Miller, for this thoughtful contribution:
It has recently been reported in Forbes and elsewhere that after a ten month audit of the 2020 elections in Wisconsin, which President Trump lost by over 20,000 votes, no voter fraud has been found.
Here are a few excerpts from an exhaustive dive into those election results by the conservative Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty.
• In all likelihood, more eligible voters cast ballots for Joe Biden than Donald Trump. We found limited instances where ineligible persons voted or attempted to cast ballots. We found no evidence of more than one vote being cast in the name of the same voter. And our analysis of the results and voting patterns does not give rise to an inference of fraud.
• Donald Trump won communities that used Dominion voting machines with 57.2%, an increase from 2016. WILL’s review found that jurisdictions that used Dominion voting machines had no effect on the expected vote total.
Take a moment and let the results of this study sink in. Deep. Because these results essentially mirror the results we saw in Arizona. In both of these states, Former President Trump and his allies have, without any evidence, alleged widespread fraud. The reported results support the views from Secretaries of State across the land, from both political parties who under penalty of perjury, attested that our recent elections were free, fair and devoid of voter fraud.
Now, that’s not to say there were not problems.
As the Wisconsin report shows, there were times there, and in other states, where officials bent or even created new election procedures out of whole cloth, potentially breaking state and local laws. However, this was mostly what state officials felt was prudent given that we had to hold a national election in the middle of a pandemic.
However, this is the crux of the matter, to date… even with the anomalies brought on by the Covid-19 pandemic that caused political leaders in both conservative and left leaning states to change election procedures, audits show few people voted who were not entitled to vote, or voted multiple times.
Studies and audits also show that the widespread memes of dead people voting in the election are either false, or when it was found, mostly involved Republicans. Other studies and research lay waste to the claim of far-right conservative voters that millions of illegal voters stepped up to vote for and swing the election to Joe Biden. In the words of Lorraine Minnite, Professor of Public Policy at Rutgers University and reported by the Austin Statesman and other outlets, that view is “preposterous” and not supported by evidence or the facts.
In most of the closely contested battleground states, votes were recounted numerous times and cross checked against voter rolls to ensure only registered voters voted. Additionally, in spite of what bloggers have been saying around the country, we did not have more votes cast than we have registered voters.
Each time, those recounts, studies and audits confirmed the original results. Joe Biden won the presidency fair and square in the 2020 elections
In an election where by and large, Republicans did well, President Trump was unable to match results seen elsewhere in his party. Put another way, voters supported the GOP, but rejected President Trump.
All of this affirms that the 2020 elections were, in the words US Department of Homeland Security Under Secretary Chris Krebs, a Trump appointee, the “most secure in US history.” All of this shows that President Trump was not cheated out of an election win, but rather, he lost.
The question now is why those on the right will continue to believe and share, without evidence, the lie that the 2020 election was stolen from President Trump.
20 comments:
Dave Miller is FULL OF CRAP, as are you SHAW!
Hi "Franks World"
What a thoughtful and well-informed commentary, Frank.
You can return to your parents' basement now. A fresh bag of Cheetos awaits you.
Good post, Dave.
"The question now is why those on the right will continue to believe and share, without evidence, the lie that the 2020 election was stolen from President Trump."
Two reasons.
1. They are authoritarian personalities who cannot question their leader.
2. They have become a fascist cult, and must reject any and all information not permitted by the leaders.
I suggest a couple books on authoritarian personalities by John Dean.
"Conservatives without Conscience" and "Authoritarian Nightmare".
The latter was co-written by Bob Altemeyer, a retired Professor of Psychology at the University of Manitoba. He produced the test and scale for "RWA" or right-wing authoritarianism. He did research on authoritarianism, identifying the psychological makeup of authoritarian followers and authoritarian leaders.
Even Mike Lindell seems to have come around to Dave's conclusions.
Frank... how did they ever let you out of WYD... the home of the "False Fact"?
Most people here are willing to engage, but simple insults don't cut it. What i wrote is my "opinion." I may be wrong and anyone, including you is welcome to a dissenting opinion. But if you want to be take seriously, bring some data, some facts, some references, maybe a few links.
Otherwise all you've got is noise... and false facts.
What? You mean you're NOT swayed by Frank's heaps of leaps of logic and towering factual presentations, Ms. Shaw? I know that I am rethinking all of my life choices now that I've just read Frank's stunning pronouncement. I'm sure Dave is, as well.
Uhhhhh Frank, you seem to have some old mustard stains on one of your chins.
The question now is why those on the right will continue to believe and share, without evidence, the lie that the 2020 election was stolen from President Trump.
The answer, like the question is really mute. For a tRumpers like ole Frank's World at any rate.
Regardless the mountain of evidence supporting the naked TRUTH of what you penned here Dave approximately 30% of this country will never believe the truth. Either the result of ignorance or self interests drivn by greed or both. And the country will countinue to suffer and be that much worse off because of it.
Nothing is permenant, including the USA. It has been changing since the day it was founded and will continue to do so until the day it is gone. Simple fact of reality and existence. The real question (in my mind) is this... what form of economic, governmental, and societal oeder will be standing 200 years from now? Fun to contemplate and glad I'l be gone long before 2221.
Dave, great analysis.
This cry of voter fraud from the Republicans has been going since long before Trump came on the scene and investigations at that time proved there was no voter fraud. Some people just seem to want to believe it, even though the evidence proves them wrong. More harm is caused by State election officials, gerrymandering, polling place abuses, suppressing the vote by biased laws, and politicians who want to stop the vote. The last statistic of confirmed voter fraud was .03%, which out of 150 million votes cast shows an efficient, well run process. That number reflects about a 63% vote participation. I wish we had closer to an 85% voter participation. As for the idiots who keep crying voter fraud, they are nothing but a bunch of "Chicken Little's" and should not be listened to.
Good post Dave.
"All of this shows that President Trump was not cheated out of an election win, but rather, he lost. The question now is why those on the right will continue to believe and share, without evidence, the lie that the 2020 election was stolen from President Trump."
I can't think of a make sense reason that so many Trumpers believe his lie about the 2020 election. My guess is that their brains are damaged in Fox News propaganda and they cant tell fact from Fox fiction.
for example I just read this over at the Mother Ship,
"Problem is, Trump won by a landslide in 2020, millions of votes. I don’t see where any of the relevant ‘battleground states’, (those states populated with enough morons they can’t figure out how to vote from one election to the next), has done anything to counter the massive opportunities for vote fraud. So at this point, I am assuming whoever the fraudmasters want in office at least on the national level will be who gets elected. It may be that they put a repub in just to make it not quite as obvious as 2020, but if they do, it will be some democrat commie in republican clothing.
The USA wants Trump, plain and simple. We’ve seen 6 years of crap on Trump, still, he is the only one the Left fears, get behind him or just stand by and watch this country continue this horrible down hill slide, but don’t start with the petty critic of the only man the majority of this country wants and needs!!! Get behind a winner or just STFU!!!"
The USA by 8 million votes more voted for Biden,and Trump had his ass kicked by an electoral landslide, yet this person "thinks" the "USA wants Trump?" He couldn't even fill an arena in Trump friendly FloridUH this past weekend! And this idiot says the "majority" wants Trump?
You just put up a post showing there was no fraud. But the weirdos on the Mother Ship can't get those facts through their heads. And there's millions and millions of these kinds of whackos who vote. They think Trump is the second coming.
How do ya deal with crazy people like that, and and its not just the Mother Ship that is crawling with them.
Dave Dubya, Ducky, Bluebullamerica, RN USA, Mike, Jerry, Ray
Thank you for all your comments. I don't know how the Trumpers can continue to scream FRAUD about the 2020 election, since no fraud has EVER been proved.
I took a peek over at the Mother Ship to see what Ray was talking about and read this:
Geeez: "HOW CAN ALL THIS VOTER FRAUD HAVE OCCURRED AND NOT ONE BIT OF THE FRAUD ALLEGATIONS NOT BE BELIEVED IF IT’S SO TRUE (which I believe mostly is)? Impossible."
The sailors on that ship are the perfect example of what Dave wrote about in his post. I've read more than once their claims of "fraud," but never once have I ever read any legitimate evidence for that claim. Not once. Yet there they are again saying that there's "ALL THIS VOTER FRAUD..." which, without citing a shred of evidence, the woman who runs that blog admits "which I believe mostly is."[sic]
Those people are excellent examples of how rabid Trump supporters think and what they believe. It's a kind of sickness, since they've never been able to produce anything that proves this "fraud" they so ardently believe took place.
What can you say about that sort of craziness -- and it IS a form of insanity, the second definition of which is: "...extreme foolishness or irrationality."
There is no rationality in believing in something that has no evidence. And that's what their mentality is.
So I don't think there will be an answer to Dave Miller's thoughtful post because those folks at the Mother Ship and the rest of the Trump cultists will never admit there was no fraud. They have to hang on to that delusion because who they are and what their beliefs are demand it.
And that is the tragedy of this country right now.
Ray posted this drivel from the Poop Deck of the HMS Mothership... "Problem is, Trump won by a landslide in 2020, millions of votes."
I saw that this morning and just for the life of me couldn't even think of how I might respond. Folks over there have stated openly that they don't care about any links or data someone could post, highlight or share. Because to them it matters for nothing. I once was told "no amount of evidence could cause them to change their minds."
Because they know better!
This is secret society gnostic stuff where only a few gifted people have the "real" knowledge.
We've always had the 30 percenters that RN alludes to, it's just that now, the governors are off their crazy engines and there's nothing holding them back.
Which leads to a question for us... What should we do? What should the Dems and the sane Republicans do?
Ducky! I hope you're doing well. You too Blue.
Shaw... Millions of votes.
I'd laugh if it wasn't so dangerous.
"Problem is, Trump won by a landslide in 2020, millions of votes."
The problem is those people and many, many more like them vote and given the chance they'll vote for trump for president in 2024. We have to acknowledge the fact that wwe live in a country with millions of people like those people on Geeez blog, where they're in a complete unrecognizable reality, where Trump is the besst thing ever to happen to America and all democrats, muslims, blacks, LGBTQ, trans, are "vermin" to them. It's hopeless. You can't fix that much stupid.
In fairness to the loons, in those states where the governors/legislators and Secs of State changed their laws without a proper bill, invoking emergency powers, many of those on the right claim that those actions themselves constituted fraud.
I would simply say, since we found no real fraud in the 2020 elections, that those laws made it easier and safer for Americans to vote without corrupting the system, in the middle of the Covid pandemic.
Voter fraud?
Here's a breaking news story on voter fraud:
VOTER FRAUD HAS BEEN DISCOVERED IN FL!
"Three Trump supporting Republicans from the MAGA Capitol of FL - The Villages - have just been arrested and charged with voting more than once in the 2020 election."
Shaw... Just like the "voter fraud" case in Las Vegas...
Donald “Kirk” Hartle, a registered Republican, alleged that someone had voted using his dead wife's ballot and that if it happened in her name, it probably happened all across the Las Vegas Valley, costing Donald Trump a win in Nevada.
The Sec of State of Nevada took the charge seriously and investigated and here's what she found... wait for it...
Hartle was the person who voted in his wife's name. Saying it was a cheap political stunt, he recently pleaded guilty to voter fraud.
Once again, we do in fact have some actual voter fraud, but more often than not, it is from GOP supporters.
Maybe we should secure our voter systems against this type of fraud by simply not letting Republicans vote. That way we'll eliminate almost all of the voter fraud of the last 20 years.
I just heard this:
Greene: *calls Democrats communists*
Raskin: "We are not communists as the gentle lady from Georgia suggested, that’s just the friends of the former President, who you lionize, like the dictator of North Korea and Vladimir Putin..so those are your friends, don’t put them on our side."
Margie Green: A stupid person's idea of a smart person.
I just received an email from a friend who now and then reads the Geeez blog, and this was posted there today:
All we know is that Soros is one of the dozens, perhaps even scores, of extremely wealthy Jewish businessmen who use their billions to influence public opinion through the media conglomerates they own and manage … you know, exercising their first amendment rights and their freedom of association to manipulate the less-intelligent masses. Which makes George Soros one of the “well-protected” members of a closed society. Almost as well-protected as Crone Clinton.
I don’t mean to suggest that rich people protect Soros. Not at all — only the extremely wealthy Jews who run this country.
Everyone who doesn’t like George Soros, or doesn’t trust George Soros, or who criticizes George Soros, is a filthy anti-Semite. Forget the fact that Jewish George Soros conspired with the Nazis against his own people.
The ADL (Anti Defamation League)
"Even if unintentional, politicians and pundits repeating these unsubstantiated conspiracies essentially validate the same hateful myths propagated by antisemites.
A person who promotes a Soros conspiracy theory may not intend to promulgate antisemitism. But Soros’ Jewish identity is so well-known that in many cases it is hard not to infer that meaning. This is especially true when Soros-related conspiracy theories include other well-worn antisemitic tropes such as control of the media or banks; references to undermining societies or destabilizing countries; or language that hearkens back to the medieval blood libels and the characterization of Jews as evil, demonic, or agents of the antichrist.
Even if no antisemitic insinuation is intended, casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes has the effect of mainstreaming antisemitic tropes and giving support, however unwitting, to bona fide antisemites and extremists who disseminate these ideas knowingly and with malice."
This is not the first time that blog has published anti-semitic slurs or other sorts of slurs against groups of people they fear and dislike. One of her best commenters refers to Muslims as "vermin." And I've read some of her commenters refer to African-Americans as "monkeys.
She can do what she wants. It's her blog. But as an Armenian, she should understand more than most people what slurs, slanders, and downright hatred against groups of people can lead to.
As much as American trumpublican/republican conservatives prefers not to recognize this, let alone acknowledge it, our nation while accomplishing many admirable things has been as much a part of the global problems as it has been part of the solutions.
Our arrogance and greed sets us apart from the rest. MTG is but the symptom of a much larger problem.
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