UPDATE:
“Boxes of documents even came with Trump on foreign travel, following him to hotel rooms around the world — including countries considered foreign adversaries of the United States.” Uh-oh. Alarm bells! Shades of his Oval Office mtg w/ Lavrov and Kislyak!
Beyond that, Ornstein says, “There is no revelation here beyond what we knew — which is just devastating to Trump.”
The former president had “documents, including the most sensitive national security secrets, handled in a slapdash fashion, kept in multiple unsecured locations, intermixed with photos and family stuff.”
Ornstein observes the plethora of “lies about what had and had not been returned [and] laughable assertions about Trump’s ability to declassify unilaterally.”
He concludes, “It reinforces how dangerous Trump is to the nation, and that is without any information yet about what malign reasons he had for grabbing these documents.”
vs. a Trump cultist blog whining:
Mar-A-Lago Raid………..
So if I was as corrupt as Biden’s White House, DOJ, and the FBI are, and I had Midterms coming and a presidential election down the line, I’d do this:
I’d raid Trump’s private home with little reason stated for doing so, but let hints out like “Nuclear code,””highly classified information,” etc etc, as the reason for the raid….terms that really shake people up.
Then I’d mention the affidavit, get it released, and redact most of it before releasing it, not having to disclose any truth at all behind what I’ve done. Just redact most of it, let people believe there are words like NUCLEAR CODE and HIGHLY CLASSIFIED and even more behind those black redact stripes, and other things which should bother the average American enough that voting for Republicans OR the former president would be out of the question.
Why do we read Trump cultist blogs? Because that's how we know what they're thinking and what their reasons are for continuing to support him.
The above comment shows us that they slavishly support Trump and that they have zero evidence for what was posted on their blog. It's all weak, paranoid speculation and pathetic whining because Trump is in deep, deep trouble, and they just can't bring themselves to believe what a corrupt and colossal disaster he is for America.
They make up stories to shield themselves from the truth. Because THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH about Trump.
1) There were a LOT of documents
Of the 15 boxes Trump staffers returned to government possession in January, 14 contained super-secret information. “A preliminary triage of the documents with classification markings revealed the following approximate numbers: 184 unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET.”
2) The claim of declassification is evidence against Trump
It is telling that the government wants to highlight the argument from Trump’s team, raised in particular by Kash Patel, that Trump had a standing order to declassify the materials. (“FPOTUS COUNSEL 1 asked DOJ to consider a few ‘principles,’ which include FPOTUS COUNSEL 1′s claim that a President has absolute authority to declassify documents.” This is nonsense both factually and legally. It is also irrelevant to the retention of any government documents. There are no such principles that would help Trump here.
3) We don’t know how the government knew Trump still had more documents
This portion of the affidavit is redacted, a necessary (and expected) measure to protect the investigation and identity of witnesses. If the Trump brain trust thought they were going to get the name of a “mole,” they really are living in fantasy land.
4) Trump had no right to keep top-secret documents in an unsecured location
5) We don’t know what actions might have violated the obstruction statute (Section 1519) and the mutilation statute (Section 2071)
The latter subjects to criminal punishment “Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing ...”). We know from news reports that certain documents were torn. But we do not know whether Trump attempted to destroy or alter other documents. (His handwriting was found on some.) The New York Times previously reported that subpoenaed surveillance “footage showed that, after one instance in which Justice Department officials were in contact with Mr. Trump’s team, boxes were moved in and out of the room.”
21 comments:
So much in this post Shaw... the post you cite says this, musings from the author that if she was "as corrupt" as Biden she'd do the following...
"...I’d mention the affidavit, get it released, and redact most of it before releasing it, not having to disclose any truth at all behind what I’ve done."
This would be all fine and dandy if, as a matter of FACT the Biden Admin had asked for the warrant and underlying affidavit of potential crimes, to be released. What she doesn't seem able to grasp is that it was former President Trump and the media who pushed for this to be released.
Not the Biden Admin.
What few on the right, especially the public commentariat, seem to grasp is the reality of the following...
Donald Trump, by his own admission, had US Presidential records and papers, at his home in Mar a Lago. We know this from his press releases through Truth Social in which he declared that any papers he had in his possession, he had already declassified them.
Further his lawyers stated that if the Federal Government had just asked Trump for the records, he would have gladly returned them.
Anyone who does not believe Trump had some sort of presidential papers at Mar a Lago, is just wrong on the facts.
Now, here's the rub... ppl like the sailors on the HMS Mothership of Denial and others focus on whether those papers were secret, had nuclear codes, and whether Hillary Clinton was subject to the same standard.
As for the papers Trump had, simply having the papers is a felony, under a law, wait for it, President Trump signed into law in 2017. It does not matter if they are classified or not. Those papers, belong to the people of the US and belong, by law, in the National Archives.
That law, coupled with the 1978 Presidential Records Act are what is tripping up Trump right now.
As for Hillary, she did wrong. But the law then was different. President Trump and the GOP changed the law so that a Hillary Clinton situation would be criminal in the future.
Dave, I’ve read enough posts on that blog to know that they do no research on what they post; they listen to and read mostly right-wing news media and bloggers; they are marinated in Trumpism; and they make up the 30 to 35 per cent of Americans who still support a lawless, corrupt ex-president because they can’t handle the truth that’s in front of their noses.
I don't know why anything trump does surprises anyone. He has always done what he wants to do without consideration of laws or breaking them. We need to hold every politician to the same standards regardless of which party they are or who is in power. I still don't think he will go to jail but he will be indicted and probably found guilty. Maybe he can do one day of community service.
If you think the Mother Ship and its captain are hopeless Trumper freaks who wouldn't know the truth if it sat on their face, you should read the rightwing sites, articles and comments, to see the degree of twisting and denial that is applied to evidence of malfeasance and crimes by the FPOTUS!
If the Capt. of that ship ever took the time to understand declassification and why what Trump did is so damning and dangerous she'd of found out that the status of the classified documents is stamped on every page. Anyone who thinks Trump has a magic declassification wand is an ignorant conservative fascist. It doesn't work that way.
PS: The classification is irrelevant to the Espionage Act.
Maybe he can do oneare pt.obq day of community service.
Just had to sneak in the snark eh skud?
You are probably right skud, he'll be indicted and found guilty on some count(s). Whether he does time or not (he should) only time will tell. But if he doesn't we might as well say goodbye to the rule of law .
Since only 30-35 percent are trumpers in America he just might do time.
"This paragraph is simply shocking in light of all we’ve read to this point. According to Stephanie Grisham, Trump’s director of communications at the time:
Boxes of documents even came with Trump on foreign travel, following him to hotel rooms around the world — including countries considered foreign adversaries of the United States."
Has anyone else read the story of missing CIA assets? I saw a couple of speculative timelines on the Twittersphere over the weekend which seemed to indicate right after The Former Guy asked for and received the super secret files on top assets and information collecting practices the USA began to lose those assets through death and other more nefarious methods.
The number one meme I saw posted over and over basically stated as bad as it appears to be with the former guy, the truth is much worse.
We The People have a hard job to do in our future. We cannot let these crimes go unanswered. That said, there are Twitter accounts of younger folks I follow and they are as riled up as I've ever seen them. It is good they are the ones in charge of justice as I'm not as unbiased.
skud: "Maybe he can do one day of community service."
Becuz in Trumplandia, being stopped for driving slightly over the limit for blood alcohol is the same as stealing top secret documents and not giving them back to the govt. when subpoened. Skudz says he's not a Trumper, but he does a really good job of kiussing Trump's arse every chance he gets.
We can just add "dumbshit" to the list of things tRUMP is.
We know Trump is not the brightest bulb on the block, so it does not surprise me he's flying around the world with top secret documents with him. I can't wait to see him in jail, if that ever happens.
Well guys, don't get your "I hope DJT goes to jail hopes up too high."
The chances of that happening, or even a trial being held, are incredibly small. Why? Because as in a lot of trials related to classified and top secret material, DOJ would rather settle that risk the plaintiff bringing out into the open, important documents, spy craft, etc.
But all that needs a suspect willing to play ball.
Trump won't, so I think we're going to be stuck in some sort of Twilight Zone stalemate. The DOJ won't go public, and Trump won't settle.
So... we're screwed.
IMHO...
Dave Doesn't that then play into admitting that "no one is above the law, EXCEPT TRUMP?"
Plus, the theft of top secret and classified government property isn't the only crime Trump is being investigated for.
Shaw... well, maybe?
Look, we're not going to risk outing spies just to convict Trump, or even try him.
And you know Trump will not go quietly, nor will his supporters expect, or accept that.
As I've said, it's a mess.
I just finished reading where King Clorox has demanded to be declared President or, at the very least, that the election be held over. HA. Fat boy is sweating, you can tell. I think the chances of him finally facing some punishment for his countless crimes have gone up dramatically. Can you imagine him in prison orange though? Yikes, it'd look like a hurricane hit the Home Depot -- a lot of crap covered by tacky orange.
Julie-Annie and Ms. Lindsay will make good prison wives for ole Trumpy. They may have to build a fascist wing, though.
Blue... I saw that.
But then I was heartened to hear Eugene Robinson of the WAPO stating very simply the facts...
It doesn't matter what Trump had. Secret or not. "Everything he had", Robinson said, down to the famous US hurricane map Trump altered with a Sharpie, belongs to the people of the US and as such, is stealing if you take it.
Every. Single. Document.
It matters not what is in them.
BTW, for the unhinged extremists who Shaw spends her time deleting, ask yourself this... Why has Trump never denied taking any of the documents?
And for the Skuds of the world... I get you don't like Biden, or liberal politicians. That's okay. We can argue about policy all day. Heck, you can believe all day long that Biden is the worst president ever. You'd be wrong, but I'm okay with people being wrong.
What I'm, and I believe most of us here, not okay with is comparing your dislike of Biden's or even Obama's policies with Trump's criminality. Because there is no comparison.
The only president besides Trump who should be in that discussion is Nixon.
Because no other president, at least in recent history, has openly flouted laws, cheered on people attacking police, sat by while the US Capitol was overrun and defaced, stole property from the American people, said laws don't apply to him, lied about our elections, called governors because of they certified elections in their states, liars, asked governors to "find" votes and throw an election, lied about and minimized a pandemic and more.
Not a one.
Dave
Do you have the link to the Eugene Robinson quote?
And yes, that is correct, AFAIK. Whether the docs were classified, top secret, or anything else, is beside the point, Trump took government property -- broke the law -- and did not give it back when subpoenaed and asked to by the government. Trump STOLE government property and kept it!
I've seen the famous Minus Eff Jay's arguments over at AOW about Trump's ability to declassify anything he wants, but Minus ignores the point that THAT is not why the warrant was issued to go into M-a-L to retrieve US government property that Trump STOLE.
Minus is like the guy who sees someone pointing at a crime, but instead of dealing with the criminal act, the guy obsesses on the pointing finger. Anyway, Minus has been egregiously wrong on everything about Trump and the 2020 election, so it's not surprising that he's wrong again on this point.
BluebullAmerica
In any other country on this planet, if a president or prime minister bleated out what Trump bleated out yesterday about demanding he be reinstalled as POTUS, those countries would immediately seek to have that person put in a mental health facility.
Trump is bonkers.
Grey One talks sass
The Law and Order GQP happily look the other way when their cult leader behaves lawlessly.
That's how we know that Trump's supporters are cultists.
Shaw... I was watching Robinson this morning on Morning Joe. You know, the conservative former Florida GOP Rep from the Tallahassee area.
Robinson was a guest, as he frequently is.
Dave, Thanks. I have to watch cable programs on YouTube, and only featured parts of them because I do not have cable tv. I cut the cord years ago. I watch BBC World News and PBS News Hour and local Boston news.
Shaw...
One has to wonder how bloggers who write stuff like this, "Two months before MIDTERMS, the SHEEP are hearing Biden very SUDDENLY: -Suggesting Trump took nuclear secrets and other highly classified info home!! in the face of actual photos that have now been released, on carpet at Mar a Lago, showing the classified documents DJT he, in the words of Eugene Robinson, stole from the American people.
It's so bad even FOX News has it on the front page of their web site.
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