I brought this post forward to today because of some recent comments made to it. Go to the comments to check them out.
Steven Rattner: By a wide margin, the US has had the highest cumulative real (inflation-adjusted) economic growth of any G-7 country post-Covid.
The data tell us the economy is doing well.
Of course, economists often tell us that how people "feel" about the economy is important, as well.
And when they are constantly told to "feel" the economy stinks, they start to "feel" it themselves.
Corporate greed is a real thing and Congress needs to address outlandish profits taken by CEO's and fueling inflation.
As long as people are getting hosed by corporate greed, they will misdirect their anger toward the government. That’s a win-win for corporations, sadly.
57 comments:
The graph shows nothing of the sort. The baseline is 2019, and GDP has only increased 7 index points since then (4 years previously). The GDP growth rate is less than 2% and the basis of comparison (European dinosaurs) are there soley to make the numbers look good. In reality they're sh*t. Why not compare to China... because THAT's the country we should be comparing ourselves to?
The it's never enough mentality and the grasping after and attachment to sensual pleasures (not refering to sex btw) is really at the heart of corporate greed. And they really know how to play it to keep folks grasping.
The tRump's and corporations of America are one of our country's biggest obstacles to overcome.
The US economy is actually growing faster than China's now, for the first time in forty years.
The main problem affecting public perception is that even though inflation has now dropped, that just means prices aren't going up, or not much. For most things they haven't come down. And people are comparing the prices in the stores now with those they remember from before the pandemic, and of course they are still higher. Wages for most people haven't risen anything like as much -- as has been the case for decades, much of the growth in economic output is being siphoned off by the richest 1% in the form of ever-more-bloated CEO paychecks and bonuses, rising value of stock options, etc. The workers who actually produce the increased wealth aren't getting much of it. That's why so many people are feeling squeezed, and in a foul mood, even while the economy is booming and inflation is low.
Let me preempt the naysayers...
1. This is the same level quality of data the Trump Admin used to tout how great his economic numbers were.
2. The economy is growing, unemployment is stable below 4% and inflation is now stable at about 3.5%
3. Average salaries are up and we've seen real wage growth. The median age in the US as reported by the SSA is 63K per year.
4. The US is a net energy exporter, energy independent and is set for our highest energy exporting year ever.
Now, as it relates to inflation, yes everyone, prices are up. Everywhere. And they are not coming down except in a few instances. We do see oil prices moderating as OPEC seems to be fracturing. But overall the inflated prices are set.
So yes, we're paying more, and in a lot of cases, while folks got raises, those raises have been mostly consumed by the inflation we've had the last few years.
And yes, as I try to get all the complainer talking points in, the border is a mess with no quick solutions, Biden forgets things sometimes, like I do, he's 80+ and crime, in some cities, is up.
But overall, America is doing well, but people do not feel that to be true.
So here we are.
Yes -FJ, let's look GDP growth in China...
They seem to have peaked at 14% in 2007. And have been in a steady decline since then. Last year's numbers were 3%.
But I'm sure you have better numbers somewhere.
Every year the numbers get "adjusted". Just like the US average temperature graphs that make the past "colder" and the present "hotter". The data can always get "pencil whipped" into whatever shape you want it to be... and so a statement that US GDP is higher than China for the "1st time in 40 YEARS" (since 1983)" should be taken with a hefty dose of SKEPTICISM. Otherwise you're always living in the HYPER-REAL SPIN ROOM of the political power du jour.
ps - "inflation is now stable at about 3.5%"
And the monetary policy inflation target is 2%... and has been for decades. So yes, Dave, inflation is DOUBLE what it should be....no matter HOW you frame-spin it.
Sorry -FJ, I didn't spin anything, I simply stated a fact. BTW, your math is a little off, I think that's less than double.
Infidel brings some reality to the table. Those of us who work on the production floor, rarely get the benes that the CEO class gets.
As it relates to China, people can tout their economy all they want, but let's remember, their growth is built on a slave class of people working long days for very little money often as better paid government and party officials oversee everything and enforce production standards.
Our economy grow at those high levels too back in the day.
Reference here on the US economy now growing faster than China's. In many ways the US economy is performing at its best in several decades, while China stagnates due to the same kind of totalitarian incompetence and corruption that's killing Russia. The future belongs to the US and India.
ps- China's 3% GDP vs America's 2% GDP is still 50% better for China, Dave. And our American workers/ wage slaves have it no better than China's. Our American bureaucrats are just as despotic and earn substantially more that the average American worker.
Quoting Ducky...
Keep pitching -FJ. but at least, unlike Skud, you sometimes acknowledge when you're wrong.
In 2022, China's GDP was 50% higher than the US. In 2023, it's on schedule to be about 30% less than the US.
The only person who mentioned the shameful profiteering going on by corporations is Infidel. Nicely done.
If We The People truly want to rebuild the USA we MUST address how corporations have been allowed to bypass laws intended to regulate their greedy ways by creating the business executive to political office holder to lobbyist loop. No one else has this private race track to deregulation.
I am beyond tired of big businesses practice of privatizing profits even as they socialize the risks. Too big to fall? OK. Totally not too big to cut up into small bite size easily digestible pieces. We The People took down the Robber Barons before, We can do it again.
Dave Miller - I read on another blog that the only reason specific Americans believe the economy is in trouble is because the NewsMax/OAN media bubble told them so (I would have added Fox but I also read that they are now the "liberal media". Bwahahahaaa - couldn't have happened to a sorrier bunch of propagandists). In fact the NewsMax/OAN audience has been told the same lie for so long that they don't believe their own paychecks. Truly a cult when one doesn't believe their own eyes.
Joe, FJ, whatever. You can't trust the numbers coming out of DC. Only a fool would. You said so. But, you can take Chinas' numbers to the bank.
" And our American workers/ wage slaves have it no better than China's". I take it you're pro union, anti "right to work".
Ms. Shaw, You have posted the ultimate spin. Take a declining situation and turn it positive even though facts prove it different. Wages are up about 5% while cumulative inflation since 2020 is up over 20%. The result, no matter how you spin it, is declining purchase power.
Is this joey b's fault where the buck stops. Did he promote the lockdown causing high inflation and shortages, did he shut down an oil pipeline, did he say he will shut down the oil industry. Did he open the border throwing cities into severe debt and support rising crime or were all these the result of actions by the evil one. Facts can be spun but they still remain.
Corporations are in business to show a profit to be returned to it's shareholders. CEO's are paid to accomplish this and are paid accordingly. Are some overpaid, you bet but to give the government control over their pay would be catastrophic. All congress can do is waste money and I don't see a lot of demand congress reduce their wealth.
"Global events following the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 have left a lasting impact on economies around the world. Almost every country experienced record levels of inflation, with monthly inflation in the U.S. peaking at more than nine percent in June 2022. Low interest rates, and supply chain constraints fueled by the war in Ukraine and COVID-19 contributed to the initial surge in inflation, but domestic events such as bird flu outbreak, and rental price hikes have helped to keep numbers high. A change in Federal Reserve monetary policy has attempted to curb the impacts of inflation by raising interest rates, but the extent to which this has helped is debated by economists. By mid-2023, the inflation rate had more than halved, but core inflation had been holding relatively steady."
SOURCE
If you want to blame President Biden for global events, go ahead. But that doesn't make your criticism valid. Every advanced country on the planet has been affected by inflation, but the US has done better than other countries.
There is NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING that this presidency does or will do that will satisfy you.
I take it you're pro union, anti "right to work".
No I'm anti-corporate. And once you cut off THAT giant's head you have no need for minor "unionized" Titans.
-FJ is NOT a citizen of the US. That's not enough to stop his little lies like, "Our American bureaucrats".
Tovarisch -FJ has shown us what we need to see that reveals him as a Russian operative. He's certainly no friend of America or our democracy.
Ms. Shaw, You are not correct with your last sentence. He could honor his word and quit after one term. In his 50++ years without a non government job he has a history of incompetence and lying about everything except now his incompetence and lying has consequences. Even OTG said he will screw up anything he touches and the defense sec. said he has never made a correct decision on foreign policy.
No I'm anti-Corporate
Occupy Bro, Right on. Sole proprietorships only, bitches. Sounds kinda woke.
Good luck returning to an agrarian society with mom and pop corner stores. That idyllic age was blown up long ago and isn't returning anytime soon.
Your beloved Trumpy messiah does not want that either. IOW's it ain't gonna happen. No sense wishing for that which ain't gonna happen.
Until, the next apocalypse.
The government statistics are all lies. Lies tailored to the prevailing Administration's agenda
The video you linked to above is wrong. As usual. The video selectively picked headlines about the summer of 2021
From The Hill:
"The summer of 2021 was tied with the 1936 Dust Bowl as the hottest summer on record, according to a new National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) report.
June, July and August had a combined average temperature that was nearly 0.01°F hotter than the extreme heat experienced during the Dust Bowl summer.
Several states, including California, Nevada, Utah, Oregon and Idaho, individually experienced their hottest temperatures on record. Additionally, 16 states recorded summer temperatures that made it into the top five for warmest summers on record. No states reported temperatures that fell below average, according to NOAA."
Wrong, again.
-FJ's "climate expert" is qualified for Trump U. or Prager U. only.
Heller has degrees in geology and electrical engineering.
I wonder how much the Kremlin pays -FJ for his services...
Ms. Shaw, The economy is not bad but it is far from good for the middle class American. We live in the US so for us to be compared to other countries seems illegitimate. If you are in the elite class of the rich the economy is doing well. If you are in the middle class you are faced with food prices and most commodities being up more than 20% since 2021 so I would say a good economy is not for beneficial for everyone. Housing pricing is another attack on the middle class which is now suffering with layoffs while the current administration is fixed on battery cars and open borders.
This is the problem for the "all government figures are lies" crowd.
If that is true, what objective method to gauge the economy should we use?
That's thought one.
Two would be this... Skud is correct. Prices are up since 2021 on a number of items. Couple that with increased interest rates and real buying power is not growing much, despite the overall good economic numbers we see.
Simply put, Americans do not "feel" like the economy is doing well.
At the end of the day, good capitalists that many folks are, especially conservatives, should government insert itself into pricing on gasoline, eggs, housing, and other commodities.
Or should it leave those things to the "invisible hand of the free market"?
skud: "If you are in the middle class you are faced with food prices and most commodities being up more than 20% since 2021..."
Could you please explain to us how the president of the United States has control over how private corporations set prices for their services and goods? Those private corporations are the reasons why some Americans are struggling. The CEO and other officers of companies that raised their prices have enriched themselves and the lower and middle classes suffer. That's not Biden's fault, nor is the price of gas, which, BTW, has fallen. But you don't talk about that anymore.
From Forbes: "For more than two years house prices have been increasing faster in metro Phoenix than in any other city in the S&P/CoreLogic Case-Shiller Home Price Index. The median single-family house price in metro Phoenix increased $100,000 in 2021 and is continuing to increase crazy fast in 2022, according to Phoenix MLS data.
#1 Reason For Skyrocketing House Prices
Almost everyone agrees the main culprit for our skyrocketing house prices in Phoenix and the United States is the extremely low number of houses for sale. What we don’t agree on is what’s causing the low supply of houses for sale.
In metro Phoenix at the end of 2019 (before Covid), 9,700 single-family houses were for sale. At the end of 2021, only 4,500 single-family houses were for sale in the Phoenix MLS.
The real estate industry loves to say the only solution is to build more houses in the future. Their unspoken point is we can't stop house prices from soaring today."
PS: Axios Explains: The myth of a U.S.-Mexico "open border"
As it relates to the US economy, there's this from the Financial Times, regularly rated by media observers on all sides as a mostly centrist source...
"The US economy is soaring. It grew at an annualised 4.9 per cent pace in the third quarter. That followed three quarters where growth exceeded the 2 per cent or so many people see as the long-term speed limit. . . . Meanwhile, Europe is stagnating. . . .
Since the pandemic . . . the two regions have diverged massively. Both recovered better than anyone had expected — but the US much more so than the EU. . . .
Let’s first note that the two have had pretty similar monetary policy. . . . The obvious other suspect is fiscal policy. And here there is a big difference. The next chart shows one measure of fiscal stimulus: the change in the government’s primary (before debt service) deficit in the US and the EU. America’s increase in 2020 was more than 2 percentage points of GDP larger than the EU’s. . . .
[S]ome US policies were more progressive than Europe’s. They focused on unemployment benefits, which were temporarily made very generous, for those who lost their jobs rather than on wage support for those who kept them but were temporarily furloughed. The US also saw significant wage compression as the strong labour market in the recovery raised wages faster at the bottom than at the top. All this, plus the direct cash distributions Washington opted for several times, made for a much larger accumulation of unspent money in the US than in Europe . . .
At least one lesson for policy can be tentatively drawn. It seems clear that the size and nature of Washington’s pandemic fiscal stimulus is still bringing the American economy significant benefits. Despite the chorus of criticism from the pillars of the economic establishment that the fiscal response was too big, that response is still holding up the US economy at no greater inflationary cost than what the EU has experienced."
Shaw asked the pertinent question... "how [does] the president of the United States has control over how private corporations set prices for their services and goods?"
It's a fair question. Sadly, when it comes to pocket book issues, the system and the American zeitgeist works like this as it relates to the President...
When the economy is good, prices, especially at the pump, are low and stocks are growing, the President gets the credit.
When the economy is slow, prices are high and stocks are meh, the President gets the blame.
Fair doesn't enter into this, nor does logic. Now, I think we are seeing a corollary these days that is something like this...
If you voted for the current President, no matter what, you see things in a more positive bent. If not, you see things in a more negative light.
Regardless of the facts, reality or even experience.
We're all a sad lot.
We are what we are. When and if folks finally realize that all people are, in their essence good (not bad)
and stop judging others based on subjective personal opinion(s) and desires life would be less stressful. And a bunch more fulfill
Not easy typing with a fractured shoulder, humeral neck, and ribs...
What happened Les? Are you okay? ????
Fell, factured humeral neck, shoulder, and #9 rib.
Okay? Learning to accept pain w/out resistance. Treating it as an opportunity to grow.
Les... what???
First - Les, you are in my thoughts. I second Shaw's question of Are you okay?
Second - the elephant in the room.
It matters not one bit if the economy is doing fantastic if the only humans benefiting are the top 1%. In fact I'd wager the fantastic economy in the here/now is supported by smoke, mirrors, and bubblegum as Robber Barons steal whatever is left. They are the proverbial Grinch who stole the last can of Who Hash.
Per Economics Policy Institute:
In 1979 the ratio between a CEO's salary and the median worker was 33 to 1.
In 2021 the ratio between a CEO's salary and the median worker was 399 to 1.
During this period the pay of a typical American worker only grew 18 percent.
See, I remember back in the eighties Corporate America was in a squeeze. They promised us workers if we did more with less when the financial pinch was over we'd all benefit. Little did I (and the rest of us workers) know that us meant them only.
I've yet to read any outrage aimed at our Corporate overlords, anywhere. The propaganda job they are doing to the world is amazing really. Seamless even as they manipulate populations to fight each other instead of turning our attention to the elephant in the room.
What absolutely slays me is many of these corporations receive subsidies from the USA government no matter how much money they make in a year. If I were ever in charge of auditing the USA budget (all the lines not just those the public get to see) I'm sure I'd find a few places to cut that would bother our Robber Barons and their attached at the wallet congress critters.
Remove all private money from our election process. Each candidate gets X dollars to run their campaign. All donations are collected en masse to fund the next election. No more dark money. Ever. We make laws to prevent such a thing and we lock those laws so that if someone tries this again we can nail them for harm to our economy. To me this is National Security business - not sure why they are missing in action.
Les,
Damn! That's miserable to hear.
I'm sure your docs have advised you on how to get through the healing process.
Thank goodness you have your wife and family near to help you through this time.
I hope you're not in too awful pain.
I know all of us at P.E. wish you a safe recovery and send you many healing thoughts.
Take care my friend,
Shaw
Ms. Shaw and Rev, If it is the president who took applause for his bidennomics which is a social welfare program he also has to take credit for his failed policies. Shutting down the country including schools is what lead up to the shortages which resulted in rising prices, supply and demand determines pricing. Bowing to the teachers union has resulted in dumbing down of our students which will take decades to correct if ever. His loose border policy has caused hardships for most cities. Coddling criminals as a practice in the country has resulted in violent crime and increased prices. Does the president tell corporations what to charge, no but his actions have consequences and most of his actions have been wrong for the majority of citizens. The rise in GDP is not units but dollars and with a 20% rise in prices we are behind. The border crosser s don't want a chance they just want a free ride, 2% of illegals in NYC have applied for work permits. We were built on immigrants but they came here to work and earn their way, now they come so we can provide for them,
Ms. Shaw, Yes there is a shortage of houses in inventory which results in high prices. A large factor is the higher interest rate which cause people to not sell their house and trade up. This is the fault for past administrations who wanted to keep interest rates unreasonable low so they looked good and created an expectation that 7% mortgage rate is way to high. My first house I was thrilled with a 6.5% rate but now that is exorbitant.
Rev, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings because that was not my intent.
Grey, Blame the CEO if the company does poorly for it's workers and stockholders and reward him/her if it does well because that rewards both the worker and the shareholder. The top 1% probably got there by planning and hard work but they are to blamed for all evils. If the top 1% gave all the worth to the government it wouldn't cause a ripple to lower the debt. I do agree that each candidate get a fixed amount but you know that will never fly because they buy their job and pay back those who put them there.
Les, Shoulders seem to take forever to heal but will in time.
Better living through chemistry will get you through it.
Be Safe
Skud
Thank you Shaw and Grey One talks sass for your kind words. Taking the suffering on my path while listening to my body and spirit as they continue to teach me
Grey One talks sass... Your comment on the state of our modern day Robber Baron economy is spot on. During the years you mentioned, 80's, i was a general foreman in a multi-million dollar company selling exactly that to the 50 -75 people working for me, exactly as directed by the company. It was a lie then, and i hope memories are long and corporations ultimately suffer the justice they richly deserve.
Dave, not sure what you mean by What???
skud,
Your comment and Grey One talks sass's comment are a lot to digest.
I'm off on errands this AM, but will return later.
Maybe others will address both of the comments you and Grey One talks sass left.
Better living through truth, honesty, integrity, compassion, and wisdom.
The chemistry is only to make the pain TOLERABLE while you learn from listening to the body and spirit.
Thanks for your well wishes skudrunner.
Les,
Gravity seems to get stronger as we age...and the floors and ground seem harder upon contact.
Here's to your swift and complete recovery. Your healthy and positive mental attitude will definitively help the process.
SRA Reading Comprehension Skud posted... " If it is the president who took applause for his bidennomics [sic] which is a social welfare program he also has to take credit for his failed policies.
Here's my response, posted even before he asked his question...
"It's a fair question. Sadly, when it comes to pocket book issues, the system and the American zeitgeist works like this as it relates to the President...
-When the economy is good, prices, especially at the pump, are low and stocks are growing, the President gets the credit.
-When the economy is slow, prices are high and stocks are meh, the President gets the blame.
I had a long response to the rest of you gibberish, but this is a post on the economics of the Biden Admin, so I'll leave it at that.
Grey... no arguments here.
I'd add that I believe that the ending of defined pension plans and pushing those workers to 401K's also has impacted workers negatively.
Now instaed of companies being responsible for pensions and retirements, it's on the employee. And those employees, through 401K's have a stake in the stock market.
That has led to fiscal decisions by those companies to prioritize quick money over long term steady growth. Because that's what their stock holders demand.
Sadly, and we see it across all sectors, it means do more with less, because labor is a huge cost.
Literally, the system is set up as Us against Us, with only the execs getting the real $$$.
Even in crappy economies.
Be well Les...
Hi Dave,
You're absolutely right Dave. All the "eldery" i designed exercise programs for at the Senior Center gym i worked at used to tell me growing old isn't for sisses. I now fully understand. It doesn't help being a stubborn old coot either. :)
Thanks for your well wishes.
All you fine folks at PE and Dave's, keep the focus o n truth and the defense of democratic self rule. We are in the fight to preserve, protect, and defend our constitution for all. Unlike the MAGA's.
Thanks for the well wishes Dave M. It'll be awhie but i'll take the experience onto the path and allow it to become a positive force for growth and understanding.
Rev, I never became fully vested in any retirement plan and would have like having a company matched IRA. To say people care about the stock market because they have IRA's is not an accurate claim. Pension funds invest in the stock market so it's strength is felt by the majority of people. There has been significant pushback on defined pensions because you are locked into one company. Difficult to please everyone.
Les, People and parents didn't tell us that the golden years have a lot of tarnish
skud - that's the best you can do? You say " The top 1% probably got there by planning and hard work but they are to blamed for all evils."
Probably???? Many of the CEO's I've encountered (I worked in business admin in various departments and various industries for thirty + years) got there because Daddy or Mummy knew someone who knew someone. It's an incestuous silo of people up at the tippy top; the CEO who started in the mail room is an ancient trope, those without connections took advantage of opportunities provided by the previous generation and then pulled the ladder up after them. And you defend this behavior.
Something I didn't touch on in my last comment is the decades of CEO's raiding the pensions of their workers; Enron being one of the most famous example but there was Silverado, Joe Nacchio, and the list goes on. By the way, Joe got six years for ruining thousands of workers lives, their pension gone, the company broken up so no one to sue... But hey.... bonuses for the 1% were lit that year so win????/////ssssssss
Lives ruined and skud is carrying water for these ticks on the backside of the USA.
Do better skud. Perhaps learn to empathize with someone other than those who look just like you.
I'm not to sure skudrunner is like the 1%'ers Grey One. Like me, until i was 45-50 and realized the truth, he may simply still believe his in trainers conditioning. It can be tough to break.
Les, you are correct. skud is not the 1% although he sure does parrot their talking points.
See, back in the day I believed the Les of then. I worked myself as hard as I could thinking that my efforts would be rewarded. Instead I got a boot to the head, repeatedly.
I'm the temp not hired because then I'd get benefits and that would never do because upper management needed their bonuses which meant my borderline hypothyroidism was never diagnosed or treated.
I'm the cashier who knew how to do the paperwork so when the store lost its fifth manager in a year I stepped up because I needed to close the store to go home. No money or authority, just responsibility with no rewards.
I believed my bosses when they said do more with less so I skipped by eating at my desk and forgoing bathroom breaks - all things that became illegal because I wasn't the only one doing it. We all believed and we were lied to.
So when I'm passionate about the subject understand it's because the 1% told me to do more with less and because I didn't fit their predetermined mold by best was never good enough. I got to watch as the ladders to success were continually raised out of my reach. As one of those in the background who make things go I watched those captains of industry as the fornicated their way through the office pool, showed up late, rewarded their buddies with monies earned by those like me.
I know you are doing better Les, but you are an outlier, an unicorn, someone who realized long before your deathbed that what you were doing wasn't working. For that I commend you.
That said - it doesn't matter if the steamroller (1%) driver who ran over me is sorry because I remain broken. Sometimes a thing gets broke and you can't fix it. And now I'm on public assistance I get to hear how it's because I'm a lazy so and so who just doesn't want to work.
It's a very good thing I dedicated my life to walking the beauty way and living for the good of all and may it harm none. In getting here I had to come face to face with the abyss within. I'm not a nice person but I choose to do better every day. With massive amounts of therapy and a few classes in Dialectic Behavior Therapy I no longer care if my best doesn't quite make the mark for the top 1%. And I take my bathroom breaks.
I am sorry for your suffering Grey One. To feel the twinge of bitterness is understandable. That you feel it makes you a "not nice person" is likely not reality. The fact you try to do better every day is what counts.
Take those coffee breaks and simply do your best. It is all that can or should be expected.
My career turned south the moment that i started to recognize the true nature of the game they were playing. All of a sudden my reports were viewed from a different perspective. As were my "superiors".
Grey,
"Do better skud. Perhaps learn to empathize with someone other than those who look just like you."
I have never professed to be a victim but I do empathize with those who are.
MAGA is the 1%... LOL!
The MAGA cult leader is. If you believe his self reported worth.
And it does not care at all about the 98%.
And the rest of the MAGA's continue to kiss the wannabe Furher's ring. LMAO a your and their blind spots.
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