This is what PolitiFact.com says about the insane claim by wingnuts that President Obama wants to kill our senior citizens.
And here's the money quote by PolitiFact:
"For our ruling on this one, there's really no gray area here. McCaughey incorrectly states that the bill would require Medicare patients to have these counseling sessions and she is suggesting that the government is somehow trying to interfere with a very personal decision. And her claim that the sessions would "tell [seniors] how to end their life sooner" is an outright distortion. Rather, the sessions are an option for elderly patients who want to learn more about living wills, health care proxies and other forms of end-of-life planning. McCaughey isn't just wrong, she's spreading a ridiculous falsehood. That's a Pants on Fire."
Why do these people lie about this? Remember, these are the people who are standing in the way of health care reform, and apparently the only way they know to win an argument is to spread stupid, easily dismissed lies. They must truly believe their followers [yes, Rush Limbaugh's audience] are dumb asses. Gasbag Limbaugh repeated this lie, as did Fred Thompson.
Are they having a stupid contest in GOP radio talk land???
ORIGINAL POST, POSTED YESTERDAY:
Now that Sarah Palin is a private citizen, you'd think we'd be rid of nonsensical crazytalk. No. We still have the the conspiracy nuts of the Right out there saying things we'd expect to hear from unfortunates who have to deal with mental disorders. The newest of these irrational rants is that the Obama Administration's health care plan will systematically kill seniors.
Wednesday, July 29, 2009
Right Wingers - Government Wants to Kill Old People - Really?
The right wing of American politics, the wing of the Republican party that is in bed with health care lobbyists is desperate to defeat health care. They are so desperate they are pulling out all the stops. What are they doing now you may ask? They are trying to promote the idea that the government is going to have a government worker visit every senior at home and inquire of them how they want to die. I'm not making this up. President Obama attended a town hall meeting with AARP members and the question came up.
Other Republicans are taking to the floor of the House of Representatives and telling Americans that if the country adopts the Democratic health care plan, seniors all across America will be put to death by their government because they cost too much. It's all over right-wing talk radio too, including my favorite (not) Rush Limbaugh.
This is really sick, that the right wingers and the insurance lobby has to go to this extent to scare people into thinking that a public option will include provisions to kill old people.
Republicans and the health insurance lobby will stop at nothing to stop meaningful health care reform. Polls have shown though that 72% of Americans want a public option, 50% of Republicans want a public option. I hope when Congress heads home for their summer break, they get an earful from their constituents and go back to Washington and pass a bill with a strong public option and coverage for all Americans.
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
47 comments:
Thank you, as always you bring out the true facts.
The default position of the wingnuts is to be afraid of anything they don't understand.
The only thing they have to offer is fear.
And made-up idiocy.
Carl L. said...
"The default position of the wingnuts is to be afraid of anything they don't understand.
The only thing they have to offer is fear.
And made-up idiocy."
Fear?
Fear of us being controlled by Socialist, Marxist? Yes, I am fearful of that.
Oh yeah right it's a Right Wing Conspiracy again... I'm getting pretty sick and tired of people saying that didn't realize the President's views. All of this information was out there. They choose to ignore it. Why would someone be surprised by his comments? He spent 20 years going to a church with a racist pastor. I understand that it is kind of common theme in some black churches, but it doesn't change the facts that he, at very least, agrees with some of the rhetoric.
You you choose to think that all this is a Right Wing Conspiracy again, then be my guest, but can I offer to see you a nice Bridge in Brooklyn?.
IHTSI,
I'm not quite sure I understand the meaning of your comment which ends:
"You you choose to think that all this is a Right Wing Conspiracy again, then be my guest, but can I offer to see you a nice Bridge in Brooklyn?."
This post was about certain members of the Right who believe President Obama's health plan includes the killing of senior citizens.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Obama's ex-pastor, whom he renounced, something you apparently can't seem to understand.
The rest of your comment has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic, and is nothing but an off-subject rant against the president.
Perhaps that's because you cannot refute the original post.
Throwing up smoke screens to divert attention away from what Rightwing conspirators are promoting probably is indicative of your inability to read and comprehend what this post is about.
Yes, I know that.. I just wanted to add my frustration to your post.
IHTSI,
We're ALL frustrated.
I don't know what's worse; the fact that some in the GOP are presenting the plan this way or the fact that some seniors will actually believe it.
"When in doubt, prey on the uninformed..."
Oh yeah right John, "When in doubt, prey on the uninformed..."
We on the right are UNINFORMED, but you lefties know it ALL.
I see..........
IHTSI said:"We on the right are UNINFORMED, but you lefties know it ALL.
I see"
My statement was meant to be general as there is fear mongering on both sides. Though, I believe the right (and especially the talk show figures) uses this tactic more often than does the left.
IHTSI: if you had read my post a bit more closely you'd have noted that the uninformed are the targets of the right (and to a lesser extent the left). I did not state that the right are uninformed...jeeze.
JohnC said...
"IHTSI: if you had read my post a bit more closely you'd have noted that the uninformed are the targets of the right (and to a lesser extent the left). I did not state that the right are uninformed...jeeze."
Read it closer? Naw, I don't wanna.
But thanks for the explanation. I feel much better now..Jeeze!
I think this sums up the birther craziness quite well:
http://www.mattbors.com/newstrip.html
This nation is sinking slowly but surely into a point of no return. Socialism has raised its ugly head and people are slowly waking up to the fact that our freedoms are being taken by leaps and bounds. The courts are not answering the call of curbing increased government intervention and it will continue....bless by them..... "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Great words that have been diluted and will continue to be unless the public awakens and holds our publicly elected officials responsible for whats happened in this country over the past few years, but mostly over the past 6 months. Nationalized everything. Next it's the oil companies.....Euthanasia is just around the corner, also. blessed by congress.
Hows that for a Right Wing conspiracy?
This is just more proof the the right tailors it's message to appeal to idiots.
They hated Medicare. Guess what. There are millions of people, right and left who thank God LBJ signed Medicare into law. Millions of people right now, right and left, would love to retire and make their job available to a younger person but cannot because of the high cost of health insurance. A government rogram has enriched the lives of millions. National health insurance supported by all Americans would do even more. And the best argument a righty can make against it is that it's "socialism." Or, :Seniors will die."
And you deluded fools still wonder why people like me make fun of you.
IMHO:
Before you go off the deep end, please look at this chart which shows what percentage of our country's businesses have been nationalized.
You've gone over to the hysteria side.
And please give us all evidence of exactly which of your liberties have been taken away.
You have the right to criticize your government.
We still have a free press.
You can worship any way you choose.
You can own as many guns as you wish.
Just to name a few of the rights you enjoy.
Now, if you will, tell us which of those rights have been taken away.
And please give us evidence of how the government has taken them away by "leaps and bounds."
It's quite easy to repeat what you hear based on nothing but rhetoric, misinformation, and lies--spread mostly by rightwing talk radio idiots.
Let's see you back up your claims that Americans are losing their freedoms and are living under Socialism.
Just a little FYI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho-0SHFEgGo
AdamS,
We can't take that seriously.
You actually believe that the president of the United States would put in place a plan to kill senior citizens?
Really.
You believe this?
If you do, I seriously think you and those who join you in this out of control paranoia need some deep psychological therapy.
I really, really do.
It isn't funny. This is paranoia gone viral.
Blogger Shaw Kenawe said...
AdamS,
We can't take that seriously.
You actually believe that the president of the United States would put in place a plan to kill senior citizens?
Really.
You believe this?
----------------------------------
Not intentionally, but his policies will.
Well read this Mama!
The government will mandate the establishment of "outcome based" measures for determining treatment according to their charts.
Under the proposed legislation, the government will have the authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc. eventually forcing everybody into the government plan.
The health care bill provides that the government will restrict the enrollment of "special needs’ persons into the plan, and in fact refers specifically to "retarded" persons.
The bill requires the government to create specific bureaucracies such as: The Telehealth Advisory Committee, health care by phone.
The government will mandate "Advance Care Planning Consultation" dealing with senior citizens’ end of life.
Seniors will be interviewed every year for health issues and decisions made as to what care they can or can't receive.
The government, under the health care bill, will instruct and consult citizens regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.
Government bureaucracies will provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding citizen to and in death.
Under the bill, the government will mandate a program for orders for end of life.
"CONSPIRACY NUTS OF THE RIGHT:
Oh Really?
Page 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultants. Think Senior Citizens end of life.
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.
Page 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends
Page 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
There are only a few of your Messiah's Plans for the senior citizens..
Doubts? Check it out for yourself.
It seems the Blue Dog Marxists are just looking for an excuse to vote for this monstrosity.If the Dem's think that ramming this through so Obama can put a gold star on his forehead is going to impress Americans, they have a big surprise waiting for them. Obama will be politically damaged beyond repair and we are going to make big strides in the 2010 election. He's a one-termer who will end up being a bigger joke than Carter.
I won't celebrate anything until this thing is really dead.
Meantime, keep the tube of K-Y handy, because this country is about to need it............
I can't for the life of my understand why these posters are so wound up over 'euthanasia'.
Sheesh.
They're all likely to perish in the forced labor camps President Obama wants to build long before they reach senior citizen status anyway.
Cheers!
Jay:
Page 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultants. Think Senior Citizens end of life.
A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.
An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses. An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
This is talking about explaining options for elderly, including wills, and appointing someone to make medical decisions for them.
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.
An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.
Again, this talks about explaining benefits to the elderly, including hospice (nurses that take care of you at home) and other care options. Nothing about "killing the elderly."
Page 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends
(II) distributes or makes accessible such orders to physicians and other health professionals that (acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law) may sign orders for life sustaining treatment;
(III) provides training for health care professionals across the continuum of care about the goals and use of orders for life sustaining treatment; and
(IV) is guided by a coalition of stakeholders includes representatives from emergency medical services, emergency department physicians or nurses, state long-term care association, state medical association, state surveyors, agency responsible for senior services, state department of health, state hospital association, home health association, state bar association,
and state hospice association.
So, here we are looking at doctors making life-sustaining decisions, such as when someone is in a coma, and these aren't goverment decisions; these decisions about life sustaining procedures will be made by DOCTORS. Again, nothing about killing the elderly.
Page 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
This is too long to put in a comment, but this is talking about having someone talk about life sustaining practices with the patient, and communicating their wishes regarding end of life treatment, such as DNRs (do not resucitate) etc.
...effectively communicates the individual’s preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, including an indication of the treatment and care desired by the individual;
So again, nothing about euthenasia. Not sure where you are getting your information, but it is wrong.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf
So Zabob and friends are now against hospice care, Do you jokers really have any clue what you're for and against?
I'd dare anybody here to read Atlas Shrugged and NOT draw the parallels to what's happening right now.
Our freedoms are being taken slowly away, from both sides of the government. It's not going to come in a fast, "hey you don't have the freedom of speech anymore!" It'll have to come in a slow an insidious way. It'll will come in the form of political correctness. Socialism isn't just gonna be voted on one day, it'll slowly creep into the system. But none of our petty bickering is going to make a difference.
At the end of the day, we only need to ask ourselves one question, "do we want freedom, or do we want the state to take care of us?"
I think the sad reality is that we want the state to take care of us, which is so confusing to me when the same people who argue that politicians are corrupt, are asking them to run their lives...
Cheers to having the ability to voice your opinion, and voicing it.
"I seriously think you and those who join you in this out of control paranoia need some deep psychological therapy."
I suppose I need re-education until I understand how much government loves me, right Shaw? :P
"At the end of the day, we only need to ask ourselves one question, "do we want freedom, or do we want the state to take care of us?"
Who or what else other than a government elected by the people can guarentee the freedoms we enjoy Ellis?
Are you under the delusion that owning a gun will protect you from a health insurance company dropping your coverage when you get cancer?
Do you think companies would never pollute our environment if government isn't watching because you read Atlas Shrugged?
Do you think crime will disappear because crooks will be too busy excersizing their free speech rights from all this less government?
You and everyone reading this will beofre the week is over demand to know at least three times what government is going to do about something that outrages you.
Please save me your tired right wing rant about personal responsibility also friend. Who or what other than a government of the people will protect the rights of the responsible from those that are irresponsible?
Think about the real premise of Atlas Shrugged also. "Wealth is good." Government's job is to protect the weatlh of the wealthy." "The wealthy provide everything so everyone else should shut up."
If you're wealthy Ellis, then I understand why you like Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged.
There's enough good reasons to oppose "Obamacare" without overblowing this one issue.
For example:
The pork in the bill that is wasted on roads and other non healthcare matters.
The provision where patients/families are bulled by being fined by the government for not choosing a healthcare plan. How thuggish can you get?
The provision encouraging small businesses to cut wages and other benefits (or even fire people) in order to divert the money to healthcare plans.
Thankfully, the plan is more and more endangered. Not by the "insurance lobbyist" bogeyman, but by people like the "Blue Dog Democrats" who are deciding to put the public interest ahead of party unity.
Except for the "blue dogs" just announced they'll vote for it if few billion in pork are taken out.
James: A good example of the "blue dogs" defanging it.
From TPM Muckracker:
"The provision at issue would require Medicare, for the first time, to cover advanced care consultations for seniors once every five years, or more frequently if the patient has a life threatening disease. These consultations include "an explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title."
Seniors are in no way required to take advantage of this benefit. (Politico renders this information as: "it does not mandate individuals to take advantage of the benefit, proponents say.") Indeed, the chief proponent of the notion that the consultations are required, reform opponent Betsy McCaughey, is reduced to arguing that, though they're not technically mandated, seniors might feel pressured by doctors or nurses who suggest having such sessions."
Nor is there any reasonable basis for believing that these consultations, if chosen, would do anything to promote euthanasia -- which is illegal in 48 states anyway. Discussions between sick or elderly people and their doctors about end-of-life treatment have long been an accepted part of modern patient care. As Politico itself notes, in 2003, a Bush administration agency "issued a 20-page report outlining a five-part process for physicians to discuss end-of-life care with their patients." And since 1990, Congress has required health-care agencies to inform patients about state laws regarding advance directives such as a living will.
I don’t think the sane Right really believes Obama wants to KILL old people. It’s just that with any other government health system there has been rationing with the old going to the end of the line, so they are assuming it will happen here as well. We have no other models to go by, other than Canada and the UK, etc. I’d like to believe that the US would be different and we could make universal health care the grandest health care in the world, but I truly don’t think that will happen. I’m also not going to pretend I have all the answers, either. This is one big mess and I believe we need some serious debates on Capitol Hill, where BOTH parties are open to ALL ideas. And they need to be open to what’s best for US and our country, not them and their special interests.
Just keep Kevorkian away from it, and it will be fine.
Pamela,
Agreed.
dmarks,
You have a truly dark sense of humor.
I've been involved in several end of life situations. A common theme is everyone says
"I wish we would have addressed this stuff sooner." There are many serious issues we don't want to talk about. Mental health. End of life. Rotten kids. But they have to be addressed regardless of whether or not scumbags want to twist them into campaign issues and talking points.
Pamela,
I want to thank you...
After the last few months of reading all types of blogs I was really having trouble trying to separate conservatives from those that claim to be conservatives...
"The sane Right..."
that solves a very big issue for me! I was wondering if one could be conservative and not be crazy....
"The sane Right" is definitely a very silent minority right now....
TAO and Pamela,
I link to a few sane Right blogs:
http://www.newmajority.com/
http://unreligiousright.blogspot.com/
http://musicalmusingsofjames.blogspot.com/
http://patrickmspeaks.blogspot.com/
http://politicsacrossthepond.org/
and last, but never least:
http://theoracularopinion.blogspot.com/
TAO,
I consider your blog middle of the road--neither left nor right.
First off: Ells, not Ellis... I've added my response below each question.
Who or what else other than a government elected by the people can guarentee the freedoms we enjoy Ellis?
- Government is there for a reason, but it's growing much too large, and infringing on our rights.
Are you under the delusion that owning a gun will protect you from a health insurance company dropping your coverage when you get cancer?
- These two subjects are not related. But, just because you don't have health-insurance, doesn't mean you don't get health-care, you just have to pay for it. If you go bankrupt, bummer. But, you should be grateful that you were able to get away from paying for a service for nothing(ie stealing).
Do you think companies would never pollute our environment if government isn't watching because you read Atlas Shrugged?
Pollution is an issue: yes, Cap and Trade has the potential to ruin our economy. I think we can devise a better way to work on it.
Do you think crime will disappear because crooks will be too busy excersizing their free speech rights from all this less government?
-Crime is a bummer, but I would rather live in a place where there is crime, and I am free, more than a place where I am told what and what not to say. Did you not have a problem with racial-profiling? Well that would be an infringement on our rights, made by the government to make us more safe. Or how about the 130,000 Japanese Americans put into internment camps during the 2nd World War, to protect our safety?
You and everyone reading this will beofre the week is over demand to know at least three times what government is going to do about something that outrages you.
-Right, so why not let the private sector figure it out? If you care so much about helping people, why don't you go and volunteer YOUR time and money, and stop trying to FORCE me to do the same?
Please save me your tired right wing rant about personal responsibility also friend. Who or what other than a government of the people will protect the rights of the responsible from those that are irresponsible?
- The people give the government power, not the other way around.
Think about the real premise of Atlas Shrugged also. "Wealth is good." Government's job is to protect the weatlh of the wealthy." "The wealthy provide everything so everyone else should shut up."
-So, how is the government protecting your wealth when they take exorbitant amounts from you for being wealthy? If I earned a ton of money, why would I want to operate in a country where the government takes all my money to spend it stimulus packages to spruce up toilets and buy ham?
-In addition, the "real premise" of Atlas Shrugged is not "wealth is good." The premise of Atlas Shrugged is Objectivism vs. Capitalism.
If you're wealthy Ellis, then I understand why you like Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged.
- My favorite part of this response it to tell you that I'm not wealthy, I grew up on welfare and have a first hand experience with government run healthcare(ie Medicare/ Medical). And the fantastic experiences I had with that "quality" healthcare. Where I was told I would have to wait two weeks to have my arm put in a cast for a broken elbow. When my mom brought up the ridiculousness of the situation, instead of something being done about it, the nurse told me how lucky I was, because, "there was a guy in here with a broken leg, he's waiting two months..." Man, how lucky I am!!!
Now let me pose you some questions...
Why do you believe in Universal Healthcare?
The CBO has repeatedly stated that there is no-way to pay for this healthcare program, where do you propose we get the money?
Why do you think that government run healthcare will work out so much better than ANY other government program(ie school systems, VA hospitals, DMV)?
Let's just say that government run health care turns into single-payor, what will you do if you a denied a procedure by the government?
Edit-" The premise of Atlas Shrugged is Objectivism vs. Capitalism."
The premise of Atlas Shrugged is Objectivism vs. Collectivism."
My bad.
I've been laying out my single payer plan financed with a 4% income tax on everyone with appropriate deductibles for two years. First as THE ORACLE. Now as Truth 101 Ells.
But I admire how you turn greed into a cool word like objectivism. Very nice work my new friend.
And I am very happy that my tax dollars helped you when you were in tough times. I only ask that when you get on your feet, you also be glad that your tax dollars can help someone else in a similar situation.
I've been laying out my single payer plan financed with a 4% income tax on everyone with appropriate deductibles for two years. First as THE ORACLE. Now as Truth 101 Ells.
But I admire how you turn greed into a cool word like objectivism. Very nice work my new friend.
And I am very happy that my tax dollars helped you when you were in tough times. I only ask that when you get on your feet, you also be glad that your tax dollars can help someone else in a similar situation.
The Congressional majority wants to pay for its $1 trillion to $1.6 trillion health bills with new taxes and a $500 billion cut to Medicare. This cut will come just as baby boomers turn 65 and increase Medicare enrollment by 30%. Less money and more patients will necessitate rationing. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that only 1% of Medicare cuts will come from eliminating fraud, waste and abuse.
The assault against seniors began with the stimulus package in February. Slipped into the bill was substantial funding for comparative effectiveness research, which is generally code for limiting care based on the patient’s age. Economists are familiar with the formula, where the cost of a treatment is divided by the number of years (called QALYs, or quality-adjusted life years) that the patient is likely to benefit. In Britain, the formula leads to denying treatments for older patients who have fewer years to benefit from care than younger patients.
You missed all of these...
Why do you believe in Universal Healthcare?
The CBO has repeatedly stated that there is no-way to pay for this healthcare program, where do you propose we get the money?
Why do you think that government run healthcare will work out so much better than ANY other government program(ie school systems, VA hospitals, DMV)?
Let's just say that government run health care turns into single-payor, what will you do if you a denied a procedure by the government?
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