Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012

"YOU LIE!"

“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
Friedrich Nietzsche


Observers of the recent GOP presidential debates, and now the the presidential campaign, are scratching their heads over the blatant lies that candidate Romeny chooses to tell.  Among the easily disproved [and they have been by research] are Romeny's continuous lie about Mr. Obama's "Apology Tour," and saying Mr. Obama has increased the deficit.

Both of those lies have been exposed, but that doesn't stop Romeny from repeating them.  Most disturbing is when he's confronted with evidence of his lying, Romney lies about having spread the lie. 

This article tries to explain and understand this sort of mendacity:


"...presidential candidates are no strangers to disingenuous or overstated claims; it's pretty much endemic to the business. But Romney is doing something very different and far more pernicious. Quite simply, the United States has never been witness to a presidential candidate, in modern American history, who lies as frequently, as flagrantly and as brazenly as Mitt Romney.

[skip]

My personal favorite in Romney's cavalcade of untruths is his repeated assertion that President Obama has apologized for America. In his book, appropriately titled "No Apologies", Romney argues the following:
'Never before in American history has its president gone before so many foreign audiences to apologize for so many American misdeeds, both real and imagined. It is his way of signaling to foreign countries and foreign leaders that their dislike for America is something he understands and that is, at least in part, understandable.'
Nothing about this sentence is true.


********


PolitiFact has give that particular Romney lie a "Pants-on-Fire!" rating, yet a number of people on the right continue to believe the lie.

PolitiFact:

Our ruling

Some of the Obama speeches that Romney cited in his book certainly laid out Obama’s foreign policy ideas, and it seems fair to say that a less confrontational approach was among Obama’s goals. Obama had made no secret during the campaign that he intended to set a different course on foreign policy than Bush -- a committed unilateralist -- had pursued.

Still, we think it’s incorrect for Romney to portray these early speeches as part of a global apology tour. Using Romney’s standard, you could argue that any change in foreign policy that’s undertaken after a presidential transition and announced to the world would constitute an "apology" for the previous policy.

On the substance of Romney’s charge, we believe that what we wrote in March 2010 still stands. While Obama's speeches contained some criticisms of past U.S. actions, those passages were typically leavened by praise for the United States and its ideals, and he frequently mentioned how other countries have erred as well. We found not a single, full-throated apology in the bunch. And on the new angle Romney has added -- that the trips were intended to offer
the president a forum to apologize to other countries -- we think it’s a ridiculous charge. There’s a clear difference between changing policies and apologizing, and Obama didn’t do the latter. So we rate Romney’s statement Pants on Fire."



Romney also likes to argue that the stimulus didn't help private-sector job growth, but rather helped preserve government jobs.

Michael Cohen continues:

"In fact, the Obama years have been witness to massive cuts in government employment. While the private sector is not necessarily "doing fine", as Obama said in a recent White House press conference, it's doing a heck of a lot better than the public sector.

And the list goes on. Romney has accused Obama of raising taxes – in reality, they've gone down under his presidency, and largely because of that stimulus bill that Romney loves to criticize. He's accused the president of doubling the deficit. In fact, it's actually gone down on Obama's watch.

Romney took credit for the success of the auto bailout – even though he wrote an op-ed for the Washington Post titled "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt". He's said repeatedly that businesses in America see Obama as the "enemy", and that under his presidency "free enterprise" and economic freedom" are at risk of disappearing. In reality, since taking office, corporate profits, industrial production and the stock market are up, while corporate bankruptcies have actually decreased."

[skip]

"Now, it's certainly true that on the campaign trail, facts can be stretched in many different directions – and both parties, including President Obama, frequently make arguments that are misleading, lacking in context or simply false. But it is virtually unheard of for a politician to lie with such reckless abandon and appear completely unconcerned about getting caught.

Back in the old days (that is, pre-2008) it would have been considered unimaginable that a politician would lie as brazenly as Romney does – for fear of embarrassment or greater scrutiny. When Joe Biden was accused of plagiarizing British Labor Leader Neil Kinnock's speeches in 1988, it derailed his presidential aspirations. When Al Gore was accused of exaggerating his role in "inventing the internet" (which, actually, was sort of true), it became a frequent attack line that hamstrung his credibility. Romney has done far worse than either of these candidates – yet it's hard to discern the negative impact on his candidacy.

Romney has figured out a loophole – one can lie over and over, and those lies quickly become part of the political narrative, practically immune to "fact-checking". Ironically, the more Romney lies, the harder it then becomes to correct the record. Even if an enterprising reporter can knock down two or three falsehoods, there are still so many more that slip past.

It's reminiscent of the old line that a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on. In Romney's case, his lies are regularly corrected by media sources, but usually, in some antiseptic fact-checking article, or by Democratic/liberal voices who can be dismissed for their "partisan bent". Meanwhile, splashed across the front page of newspapers is Romney saying "Obamacare will lead to a government take-over of healthcare"; "Obama went on an apology tour"; or "the stimulus didn't create any jobs". Because, after all, it's what the candidate said and reporters dutifully must transcribe it."

28 comments:

Les Carpenter said...

Projected and Recent US Federal Debt Numbers
Gross Federal Debt Debt Held by Public
FY 2013* $17.5 trillion $10.6 trillion
FY 2012* $16.4 trillion $9.7 trillion
FY 2011 $14.8 trillion $8.5 trillion
FY 2010 $13.5 trillion $8.2 trillion
FY 2009 $11.9 trillion $6.8 trillion
FY 2008 $10.0 trillion $5.3 trillion

????????

Oh well...

Anonymous said...

Debt and Deficit are two different things.

Oh well.

Anonymous said...

The national debt...

...is the net accumulated borrowing by the federal government.

It's the difference between all the money that our federal government
has ever spent and all the revenue that it has ever collected since our
nation's inception.

The annual federal budget deficit...

...is the amount that our federal government borrows each year.

Les Carpenter said...

What is the Deficit?

Deficit: The amount by which the government's total budget outlays exceeds its total receipts for a fiscal year.

Recent US Federal Deficit Numbers
Obama Deficits Bush Deficits
FY 2013*: $901 billion FY 2009: $1,413 billion
FY 2012*: $1,327 billion FY 2008: $459 billion
FY 2011: $1,300 billion FY 2007: $161 billion
FY 2010: $1,293 billion

Although the federal deficit is the amount each year by which federal outlays in the federal budget exceed federal receipts, the gross federal debt increases each year by substantially more than the amount of the deficit each year. That is because a substantial amount of federal borrowing is not counted in the budget.

They are different. One increases the other.

Truth is, the government plays games as in creative accounting.

Second truth, Romney is creative. Very creative!

The losers... The American people.

Vote Gary Johnson!

skudrunner said...

If Obama does not tell the truth it is arguments that are misleading and if Romney stretches
the truth it is lying.

"In fact, the Obama years have been witness to massive cuts in government employment"

While that statement is true it is a reflection of the lack of economic recovery that has caused this. Federal government employment has grown while State government employment has decreased. Obama cannot take credit for government employment decreases unless you count his inept non-economic plans.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/25/news/economy/obama_government/index.htm

The only reason his budget deficit is not more is even the Democrats won't vote for his budget, course to be fair they won't vote for theirs either.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw, what we will not see in any of the comments is anyone reasonably showing that Mitt Romney is not lying.

Anon and RN will continue their feud and perhaps one or two other conservatives will join in to say that Obama does it too, but no one will defend Romney from the basic charge with facts.

And sadly I believe, we will be electing him as our next president...

Les Carpenter said...

Dave, perhaps not. As bad as Obama is IMO Romney has an uphill battle that I actually believe he will lose.

But I an not concerned with it as my vote goes to Gary Johnson. And if Obama wins again the nation will survive another four years.

And the ball will move further down the statist path. But then again so will it if Romney wins.

I guess it boils down to... Oh Well.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skudrunner,

You must have missed the part in the post where the author of the article acknowledges that ALL politicians varnish or stretch the truth.

What's new about Romney is that he tells bald-faced lies that are easily disproved.

The "apology" tour is one of those lies that he keeps repeating, and at one point Romeny kept saying Mr. Obama made the economy worse, when a look at job creation, the stock market, and corporate gains refuted that lie, and Romney stopped saying it.


RN, Johnson will not win.

Dave, yes, you're correct. No one here has refuted the claim that Romney is a liar.

skudrunner said...

I didn't miss that fact but again with Romney a misstatement is a lie and with Obama it is misleading.

Just like with Obama changing his views on anything it is that his opinion is evolving and with Romney it is flip flop.

Like the government employment is down under Obama, true but misleading, the House is holding up Obama's jobs bills, true but only partly because the Senate is holding up the GOP job bills.

Paul said...

Americans are used to their politicians lying. They will make up their minds on other characteristics.
Americans seem to get it, and polls say, they understand who is responsible for the debt.
As Bill Mahar would say, Republicans live in a bubble. They don't think their lies, are lies. They believe their own lies.
Vote for Johnson, split the vote, and assure an Obama win.
Businessmen lie all the time, they just don't have media following them around, to point out their lies. Romney has deceived many, to be a successful liquidator.
KP, Shaw, my new ID. Do you like the photo?

Paul said...

OOps, photo did not show? Will fix

Les Carpenter said...

More generalities and hyperbole Steve...

Democrats ly all the time, they live in a bubble, and they believe their own lies.

See what I mean Steve? Generalities.

Paul said...

More?
I'm not the anon you have a gripe with.
Although, I read the thread, and agree with them - you seem to have more than one, who thinks you are deceptive and write hate.
I did say "politicians" meaning all, but Republicans have a special trait of lying and trump Democrats at lying.

Paul said...

Dam, still not working.

Looking to start a fight with another reader RN. Yes, that is your MO.

skudrunner said...

Talk about generalities
Bill Mahar he is very credible source for anything political as he speaks for the democrat party
All politicians lie but republicans more than democrats, can't get more general than that statement except
"Businessmen lie all the time" Only those who don't want to be in business long. Whatever business you are in it is a small world and lies catch up. Own a business and see what I mean.

Dave Miller said...

Skud... really? You are equating a misstatement which is said once, and then hopefully corrected with a lie?

When Obama said there were 57 states, that was a misstatement. Clear and simple... it is obvious a President knows there are 50 states.

When Romney wraps an entire speech around the idea that the President Obama went all over the world apologizing for our past actions, that can hardly, in any stretch of the imagination be called a misstatement.

Most certainly not after he has repeatedly done so.

It is, in fact a lie, that he repeats every chance he gets.

Or... are you saying it is a statement he misstates every chance he gets?

Get real and get over Bill Maher, his general influential reach is nil, he's a crappy comedian, and does not represent the DNC or the Democratic Party... even though he does raise money for some super pacs.

Les Carpenter said...

No Steve, that is not my MO. I much prefer civil rational debate and discussions. Unfortunately the lefties seem not to understand this. So they attack. I simply attack back.

The fact is freedom of speech, and thought or expression is hailed by the lefties as their cause. IMO they mean only freedom of speech, thought and expression that concurs with and supports their positions. IMO those who dare to disagree are viciously and relentlessly attacked. I have been to far too many liberal sites to believe otherwise.

Having said the foregoing I acknowledge the far right is just as guilty. I have said as much and believe there are two kinds of fascism alive and well in America. The extreme left and the extreme right. Both are wrong.

Yup I like a good argument as well as the next independent minded person. Unfortunately there really are few independent minded individuals around. Most prefer the cover of the collective. Whether it be the liberal collective or whether it be the conservative collective. I shun both.

My opinions, grounded in reality IMO, you can disagree and I expect you do. So what? I'm fine with that.

So where do you go from there Steve?

By the way, Obama is not a communist as some like to portray him. He is a statist. Just like Bush and exactly as Romney would be.

I at least have the balls to say it and also the balls to advocate for Johnson. If we are to ever right the ship the people of these United States had better jettison the two major party ideologies and start from scratch.

Better to start now than to continue with the continuum.

Dave Miller said...

RN... Johnson may not be the one, but i do believe we are going to need a quality third party candidate to get the two parties to really reform.

Remember that Perot was able to really push both the Dems and the GOP back in 1992.

Les Carpenter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Les Carpenter said...

Yes Steve, I'm still not working. At 60 I am taking a few weeks to relax AND enjoy as I prepare for my next career change. One I might add I look forward to with all the exciting challenges that no doubt await me.

And no, I haven't got on board with the OccuPoop Wall Street gang either.

Les Carpenter said...

Dave, you might be right with regards to Johnson. Although I must acknowledge I disagree.

Yes Perot did, and I believe Johnson can as well. Which at this juncture is the immediate issue. Building a successful third party that fields credible national candidates must be the long term goal. IMO.

Paul said...

RN,
Why don't you ignore me, and save your talk for those who are interested.
I am not interested in a person so irrational, that he compares Obama to Hitler, or writes the kind of hate you did about that Obama Event post.
Yes, when anon and Republican Racism commented on what you said, I went to your blog, and sure enough, they were right.

You just wrote,
"By the way, Obama is not a communist as some like to portray him."
According to you Obama is Hitler.
I find your honesty, lacking.

Les Carpenter said...

Steve, as I said you are entitled to your opinion. As wrong as they no doubt sometimes are.

The fact it is you who is irrational, at least IMO, and likely others as well who are not tied into the dogmatic leftist robotic like mindset.

I made the attempt, you responded with the usual leftist drivel. Twisting and turning my words, and their proper correlation to concepts to suite you're own very negligible understanding.

As I said I respect your right to your views. Wouldn't want to confuse you with thinking about alternative views.

As I told anon, my work with you is done.

FreeThinke said...

Wisdom from c. 440 B.C.


"The partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions."

~ Socrates (470-399 B. C. )

This excuses no one, and it takes no particular side either for or against Mr. Romney, but morally questionable, reprehensible –– even scurrilous –– tactics and all manner of skulduggery have been part and parcel of time political process since time immemorial.

Since it seems to be an inseparable part of what’s known as The Human Condition, I doubt if anything could be done to change it. Surely there are better things we do with our time than engage in acrimonious exercises in futility?

Come see today’s post entitled ENEMETICS at:

http://freethinkesblog.blogspot.com/?zx=da63e836789862c5

It ties right in to this discussion, albeit obliquely.
Best regards,

~ FreeThinke

Les Carpenter said...

Free Thinker...

First, I humbly tip my hat to you sir. You are as wise as you are intelligent.

Second, I shall certainly return to your site often. As well as encourage others to visit your fine non partisan site.

Paul said...

RN,
BS
Yes, and my opinion is you are a hater.
What are you debating about? The words were clearly written and posted on your blog.
Right, it's irrational for me not to want to get into useless discussion with a guy who says Obama is Hitler.
It's not just my view. I think most would call you irrational for calling Obama Hitler.
Your a little paranoid, thinking I'm someone else.
You have no clue what my views are.
Please tell me what my views are, since you have already decided what they are, or THINK you know what they are.
By Mr. Ego.

Les Carpenter said...

As I clearly stated Steve my work with you is done. Do you not understand English?

Enjoy your visits with your therapist.

Good day sir.

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