Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

~~~

~~~

Thursday, October 3, 2013

Obamacare: Up Close and Personal



I dislike cliches but I'll use one here:  Obamacare for our family is "up close and personal."

Without going into too much detail and to preserve her privacy, I'll tell you about how Obamacare has given my daughter a chance to finally take care of her long-neglected health.

My daughter has had four jobs in three years, three of which provided no medical insurance.  The one company that did provide coverage left the state.  She was covered for only one year.  Before those jobs there was no insurance because of  the exorbitant premiums, lay-offs, and other extenuating circumstances, which I will not go into for privacy reasons.

During the long stretches of time she was not covered, she had to be hospitalized twice for life-threatening issues.  Each time, she had to go to the emergency room--the health care systems that conservatives always state is available for Americans who need it.  Those two emergency visits cost well over $11 thousand dollars.  Since these two hospitalizations occurred during the financial disasters and job losses of 2008 and 2009, her family was living off of unemployment and whatever her retired parents could send her to keep her and her family's head above water.

Going without regular medical check-ups for years has taken its toll on her health, and she has developed, as a result, chronic conditions that could very well have been prevented with regular check-ups.  

Now comes her chance to be able to afford medical insurance through Obamacare, since the job she now holds does not offer it.   Now that there is some proverbial light at the end of her unhealthy medical history, our family has had to stand by and watch the selfish, heartless, self-serving members of a minority of a minority try to obstruct and delay medical coverage for my daughter--and millions of other people's daughters, sons, fathers and mothers.  Why?  

Are the monsters in that minority afraid that people who have gone without insurance will benefit from this opportunity to buy it at an affordable price? Afraid it will be popular?  Afraid their constant attempts to ruin the lives of people, such as my daughter, will have a deleterious affect on their political brand?  

What in damnation's name is the reason they could give me for denying my daughter the opportunity to buy health care at an affordable price and force her to go another year without coverage and health care?

I'd like one of their fat-cat, insurance conglomerate funded, politicians to answer me that question.  

But, I'd also like them to know that their grotesque campaign to deny Americans a basic human right will not succeed.  

Right now, the minority of a minority and their hopelessly misinformed followers believe they are standing on principle.  But, I ask, what is the principle they claim they are standing for that would deny my daughter, and millions of other Americans, the ability to buy affordable insurance, insurance that could prevent her and them from having to deal with catastrophic health issues.




What principle are they defending?





There's a particular irony in all of this for our family.  My parents emigrated to this country of hope and opportunity in the early part of the 20th century.  But had they stayed in Italy, and had I been born there and raised my daughter there, she would not have had to go without health care for all these years, because Italy has a better system in place than does the "Hope of the World," the U.S.A.

Bloomberg's chart of the worlds most efficient health care countries lists Italy as #6; the United States, #46.

The U.S. has a chance to become a leader, not a "46er" in delivering efficient health care to her citizens. Do not allow the monsters in the minority of a minority to prevent this.



Infidel753 enlightens us further.


87 comments:

Thersites said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thersites said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dave Miller said...

Shaw, I am with you on this...

So I would ask the GOP the following...

Do you believe that Americans should be able to get access to affordable health care, or insurance, whether or not they have a pre-existing condition?

If you do, how should we, as a nation accomplish that?

Here's how I am seeing things.

Many conservatives are reluctant to set a federal standard. They would prefer a state by state approach. But I am wonder if the time for that viewpoint has passed. Maybe there are just some issues that we need to address nationally so that we can have equal treatment and standards across the country.

I see the conservative point that we are a collection of states, and frankly, I too struggle with the over arching power of the Feds, as expressed in the current NSA spying debacle.

But I keep coming back to this... is there anything that is so important, that we are not currently doing, like a national health care system, that should be implemented nationally, or, regardless of the merits, are we prohibited from doing this by our Constsitution...

okjimm said...

I hate to be anecdotal...so I won't elaborate, but I am also in the same type of situation you have described. Does not bode well. I empathize...what I would like to say is....
Insurance is NOT Health Care.
It is the vehicle by which Health Care is paid for.
There is a need to change.
Right now...and I will be glib, you buy insurance betting that you will get sick, sometime. Insurance companies take your money, betting that you won't.
then, if you do get sick....Insurance companies routinely deny most claims, or at least part of them...betting that you will just go away.

The Affordable Care Act, and I, from this day forward will not call it Obamacare...is a step towards reform.

Who does not like this? The money men......who take your betting money....
...not a single "Insurance" Company makes any person well.....

oh...and thanks for your comment to the grammer police. It really did not bother me. As my grandfather would have said, "Ain't no big deal."

Anonymous said...

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

C. S. Lewis

Jerry Critter said...

Whooooo Hooooooo! We beat Serbia and Brazil!

okjimm said...

Boy&Howdy, Anon. That was peachy.
So...we are on the right road.
So much for Lewis on that one.

Thersites said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Infidel753 said...

What in damnation's name is the reason they could give me for denying my daughter the opportunity to buy health care at an affordable price and force her to go another year without coverage and health care?

They could give you all kinds of squid ink, but I really think a lot of the new teabaggish breed of Republicans are simply the kind of twisted people who revel in cruelty.

Whatever the reason, your daughter's case and those of millions like her are why we can't give any ground on this. If anything is a legitimate function of government, it's ensuring that no one is left in such a position.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did C.S. Lewis ever have to go without insurance? Stop with the numbskull platitudes...Shaw's story is real C.S. Lewis is dead.

Infidel753 said...

Jerry: Whooooo Hooooooo! We beat Serbia and Brazil!

In what? Legislative stupidity?

Rational Nation USA said...

Shaw said ... "Are the monsters in that minority afraid that people who have gone without insurance will benefit from this opportunity to buy it at an affordable price? Afraid it will be popular? Afraid their constant attempts to ruin the lives of people, such as my daughter, will have a deleterious affect on their political brand?"

When rhetoric, hyperbole,innuendo, partial truth, partial lie, hatred, deceit, gamesmanship, and general BS ruled America.

Indeed a shameful time. The price a nation pays when partisan loyalty trumps reason. Tic Toc, Tic Toc, Tic Toc...

It is why this nation will ultimately FAIL it's promise and slide into chaos and 3'rd world status.

Jerry Critter said...

Infidel,
We beat them in delivering efficient health care. See Shaw's Bloomberg chart link.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, you did not address one thing in my post. All you did was try to make this issue look like a simple "both sides do it."

I have asked conservatives to tell me what the hell I would tell my daughter if the A.C.A. were delayed for another year.

You tell ME what she should do. Depend on charity from religious organizations? She and millions and millions more with serious health care issues?

You never, never address these real-life situations, but choose to ignore them so that you can be the neutral person taking no sides and mocking everyone.

My daughter doesn't need mockery. She needed a chance to buy affordable health care. President Obama, not the GOP, not Libertarians, gave her that chance.



Infidel753 said...

Jerry: Ah, I see. Well, Brazil is developing fast these days (recently overtook the UK to become the world's 6th-largest economy, I think), so I'm sure they'll have a national health system soon enough, since they don't seem to be plagued with teabaggers.

Duckys here said...

Both sides DO NO do it.

Enough of that nonsense. Right now this country is being brought to the brink by a handful of Bagger hosers from gerrymandered ultra safe districts in Texas, Indiana, Alabama and other centers of the Enlightenment.
They are led by a cowardly cutpurse who lives in fear of losing his speakership.

That's what the Republican party has made of American democracy. OWN IT, RN.

But now they want to compromise. A Republican from Pennsylvania was on NPR explaining how easy this is to resolve. They offer a bill with the sequestered budget (i.e. the austerit budget, give poor folk the Full Ayn Rand) and a rider to repeal the medical device tax. Pass that and voila they disappear like freaking roaches until the next debt ceiling fight and we repeat until they have virtual full repeal.

No, you can't bargain with these wretches and thanks to the repeal of the Voting Rights Act and Citizens United(all in the name of freedom according to the Libertarian sandbox) we can't get rid of them either.

And the Democrats WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE.

Dave Miller said...

Ducky, you are correct. If Speaker Boehner would simply allow a vote, the clean CR would pass.

A majority of the House support it and a majority of the American people support it.

Please tell me RN, Skud, Free or any other conservative, how the small group around Sen Cruz is speaking for the majority of Americans?

President Obama has already agreed to the GOP budget amount proposed by Congressman Ryan.

Is this about the CR and the budget, or is it about defunding the ACA/ObamaCare initiative?

COuld someone please answer that?

skudrunner said...

"Do you believe that Americans should be able to get access to affordable health care?"

Without question they should and the majority of Americans feel the same way. The issue is you MUST get or pay a fine. I pay taxes and therefore would prefer the IRS not be in charge of MY healthcare because they are an agency without oversight.

Should we provide some kind of healthcare for all Americans, yes, is Obamacare the answer, No.

We have elected officials who should be able to come up with a workable program. Granted most of them have few if any accomplishments other than being politicians but instead of working for the people they just posture to keep their jobs. Pretty poor system.

Rational Nation USA said...

Shaw, check your mailbox...

Rational Nation USA said...

"Please tell me RN, Skud, Free or any other conservative, how the small group around Sen Cruz is speaking for the majority of Americans?"

Dave, I'm sorry but you'll have to read my most recent post today. I'm signing off the bullshit for now.

Rational Nation USA said...

"That's what the Republican party has made of American democracy. OWN IT, RN."

Ducky, you're part of the problem.

Duckys here said...

@skud --- We have elected officials who should be able to come up with a workable program.

------
Waiting for everything to be perfect means we never start.

It would be near miraculous if a major change to the American health insurance system were implemented without issue.

To say repeal and go back to square one means continue the unworkable (please read Shaw's article) "for profit" system. The profiteers buy off a few mouth breathers like Gohmert and Cruz and we never make any progress.

People from the center right to the far left want to bargain in good faith for a system that can move further to making health insurance more available and affordable.
The fringe right wants nothing to do with that goal.
This should be called by it's name, pure reactionary obstruction.

Rational Nation USA said...

Here ya go Ducky....

http://rationalnationusa.blogspot.com/2013/10/perhaps-it-is-too-late-something-to.html

George Whyte, August 2013 said...

Hey Shaw this is for your crazy con friends:

"The American Medical Association, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American College of Surgeons, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Society of Anesthesiologists, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American College of Cardiology all endorsed the Affordable Healthcare Act."

All they all Commies?

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well the maniac Free Thinke thinkes so.

Rational Nation USA said...

And the far left of the moon is unlikely to compromise and move towards the center Ducky.

The Debonair Dud said...

Obamacare is a failure. The enrollment has been opened for 3 days and it's already a failure. How do I know? Fox News, Rush Limpballs, and all the conservatives on all the rightwing blogs told me. It has to be true!

Dervish Sanders said...

Shaw: RN, you did not address one thing in my post. All you did was try to make this issue look like a simple "both sides do it."

That's RN's schtick. That, and making fun of anyone who doesn't agree that both sides do it.

Rational Nation USA said...

Piss off Mr. Sanders.

I Support Obama said...

"Democrats Chose the Shutdown"


"If you repeat a lie often enough, you must be a deluded conservative."

Shaw Kenawe said...

I.S.O.

A very wise person wrote this:

"Lies have no limitation, only the truth does. The advantage is always to the liar."

FreeThinke said...

"Lies have no limitation, only the truth does. The advantage is always to the liar."

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!, Oh THANK YOU!!! for revealing so elegantly and succinctly why Marxian-Socialist-Fabian-Liberal-Progressive-Statist-Collectivist-Tyrannist pseudo-benevolent thinking has had such tremendous success in capturing the hearts, minds and souls of so many millions eager to embrace and EASY WAY OUT via simplistic solutions to complex economic and social problems.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! You have just MADE MY WEEK.

In sincerest gratitude,

M. FreeThinke, Servant of Satan, and Raving Maniac in Residence };-)>

Shaw Kenawe said...

Except, Mr.Free Thinke, that was written by a liberal who was speaking about the rightwingers who are trying to sabotage the A.C.A.

How is offering Americans a chance to BUY INSURANCE on exchanges an embrace of socialism?

Not one conservative has been able to answer that simple question. They sail past that question and answer it with bombast.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Obamacare Is Working, Even For Republicans!

Multiply these stories by the hundreds of thousands, and the TeaPublicans' attempt to sabotage the A.C.A. will go nowhere.


And always be skeptical about the lies circulating in blast emails about the A.C.A.

Thersites said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
FreeThinke said...

"Except, Mr.Free Thinke, that was written by a liberal who was speaking about the rightwingers who are trying to sabotage the A.C.A"

And THAT, Ma'am. only goes to prove that liberals rarely-if -ever have the faintest idea what they are stalking about anymore than they understand the ramifications of the policies their rank and file adherents blindly endorse with near-pathological enthusiasm.

I have never said that Liberal-Progressive OBJECTIVES are undesirable or inherently evil. My disdain is for the METHODOLOGY liberals advocate in pursuing admittedly needed reforms.

Some have defined liberalism as a "mental disorder." I wouldn't go that far. I define it as WISHFUL THINKING.

All good wishes from,

Your Friendly, Cheerful Fiend and Neighborhood Raving Maniac, FT.

PS: Please tell us the author of that quotation. I'd be the first one to admit that Marxists, et al. have said many things that sound good, but "the proof of the pudding, etc." ...

Anonymous said...

Shaw said "How is offering Americans a chance to BUY INSURANCE on exchanges an embrace of socialism?"

IMHO, it is not having the chance to buy insurance conservatives protest, but being FORCED to buy it. If people were allowed to buy or not, without fear of a "monetary penalty", I suspect most would have no objection.



skudrunner said...

Ms Shaw,

"chance to BUY INSURANCE"

It is not a chance it is an order. You must have insurance that meets the obamacare criteria or you will be fined. Somehow that does not coincide with free choice.

Progressives and their leader always point to fox news as the opinion maker of lies. They do not seem to recognize abc, cbs, nbc, cnn, msnbc as opinion makers for the leftist lies.

Opinions and elections are determined by the media and on that score the leftists are leading.

Anonymous said...

I love the House of Turds headline.

I propose we rename Capitol Hill, Crap-it-all Hill.

To hell with all of them.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Anon@11:48 and skud,

Tell us about having to buy car insurance and the penalties for not doing so. And then tell us why insuring yourself isn't as important as insuring one's car. The more people in the pool, the cheaper the premiums. PS> The "penalties" for not buying the insurance as meager. Not as bad as state mandated car insurance.


Shaw Kenawe said...

Anon@12:47 wrote:

"To hell with all of them."

ALL of them didn't force the shut down, only a minority of a minority--the TeaPublicans visited this travesty on the American people.

Selfish, narcissistic 2-year olds, the lot of them.

Shaw Kenawe said...

The "the hell with all of them" isn't cutting it with the American people, either:

USA Today:

In this case, however, the "they're all bums" reaction is off-base. This shutdown, the first in 17 years, isn't the result of two parties acting equally irresponsibly.

It is the product of an increasingly radicalized Republican Party, controlled by a disaffected base that demands legislative hostage-taking in an effort to get what it has not been able to attain by the usual means: winning elections.


"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

No matter how loud and how long the TeaPublicans and other cons repeat the lie, the shut down isn't the result of "both sides." It is the strong-arm, hostage-taking tactic of the Tea Party Republicans.

As a result of their self-serving tantrum, 70% of the American people disapprove of the GOP.

70%! Good going, GOP.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ted Cruz gets a richly deserved ass-kicking:

Politico reported earlier this week that it was attacks levied by the Senate Conservatives Fund, the organization founded by former Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC), that angered Cruz's GOP colleagues.

“It was very evident to everyone in the room that Cruz doesn’t have a strategy -– he never had a strategy, and could never answer a question about what the end-game was,” one senator told Politico. “I just wish the 35 House members that have bought the snake oil that was sold could witness what was witnessed today at lunch.”

Conservatives outside the Senate have taken swings at Cruz as well. Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, said Cruz "pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away." Rep. Peter King (R-NY) accused the "Ted Cruz wing" of trying to "hijack" the Republican Party.

Anonymous said...

Shaw
"Tell us about having to buy car insurance and the penalties for not doing so"

But I only have to buy car insurance if I title a car to drive on public roadways.

I will not argue it is in most people's best interest to have health insurance, but some will always resist.

Les Carpenter said...

Eveyone seems to acknowledge the ACA has issues. My contention is the damned issues should have been worked out before the law was passed and implementation began.

But, since the democrats are not interested in any further discussion with republicans then I say at this point fund the thing, let the ball roll, face the projected problems of the republicans (if they ocur), make mid and downstream course corrections as needed.

Business analogy, Not making a decision when one is needed is in fact a desicion. It is generally the wrong one.

Business arument, the results of said decision may not be precisely as anticipated but adjustments, corrections, additions, scraping if necessary, replacement by something more effective, etc. can occur as appropriate..

Government reality, ACA will stand, it will be tweaked (not twerked), there will be additions, it will grow, it will become single payer in time. And there my friends is the gold ring, the ultimate prize, that which the republicans are afraid of.

For me? Well, lets just say it is what it is. Life will continue on awhile longer, the sky won't fall in, the unfunded liabilities of the USA government will continue to mount, overpopulation will continue, life will never be perfect, and I hope to see our 5 year old grandson and 2 year old grandaughter graduate from college.

Hopefully the ACA can make that happen for me and the misses. I'll be 82 when the grandaughter graduates and the misses will be 87.

Life is good and I have fitness training with the aging population to worry about. The debate can continue on without me. It is by far betterb to work the fitness side so the cost associated with healthcare is diminished and the quality of life is extended.

As I shove off I hope to keep the wind at my back and my rudder straight and true.

George Whyte, August 2013 said...

To Free Thinke and his con friends,

You're being spammed by an impersonator making a fool of you and your friends. I DO NOT POST AT CONSERVATIVE BLOGS (unless it is to warn them about this fraud).

You obviously don't care about being played like a cheap violen by the asshole imitating me.

Fine.

It's your cesspool of a bog; and you're welcome to all the turds you allow to float in it.

Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...

So RN is allowed to come on here and tell people to "piss off."
RN's is the only one correct and the rest of us are idiots?
RN says the ridiculous comment "both sides are responsible." Talk about partisan delusion.
Sour grapes and tears from a Republican who now has to admit his party has totally screwed America.
Worse, they are willing to watch people suffer and die for their political ideology.
The Capitol police aren't getting paid because of Republican political games, but put their lives on the line for Republicans anyways. That's conviction!
Some turd Republican shouts at and blames an officer for the monuments being closed!! These are sick politicians.
When Republicans care about the health and welfare of Americans, I will listen. Until then, they should be left out as simple trouble makers.

Anonymous said...

Mt. Carpenter may be right. When you've been beaten, you have only three choices: A) Bury your head in the sand, play ostrich, pretend it didn't happen, and hope no one kicks your derriere too hard as they pass you by. B) Roll over on your back, put your paws up, wag your tail, whimper softly, bury yourself in work and hope the new boss will be at least as kind to you as the old one. C) Commit suicide. Change is the only thing that lasts forever. Everything good and bad alike dies. It is now time for the wonderful thing the original tea partiers brought to fruition to call it a day, and let its corpse be buried before it starts to stink. Life will go on.


--------> Katharine Heartburn

Les Carpenter said...

Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...

"So RN is allowed to come on here and tell people to "piss off."

No, not people, just one who loves beating dead horses.

"RN's is the only one correct and the rest of us are idiots?"

No, but perhaps you are?

"RN says the ridiculous comment "both sides are responsible."

How is this partisan? Partisanship is the failure vto see BOTH sides of an issue, the inability to compromise. That describes both the dems ad the repubs at this point.

"Some turd Republican shouts at and blames an officer for the monuments being closed!! These are sick politicians."

I'm not a plitician, don't agree with this. So, let Harrio and the dems fund essential services. That would be right.

"When Republicans care about the health and welfare of Americans, I will listen. Until then, they should be left out as simple trouble makers."

Spoken like a true partisan. And a likely tyrant if wever in a postion of authority and power.

So, BSAR, have a goodn weekend. I know I will.

Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...

Harrio is in the Senate. The House has the money strings. So go ahead and blame the one who cannot authorize payment.
So Mr. Sanders is not human? Nice slur, which you continue to be allowed to spew on this site.
Now call me an idiot, great, another slur only you can get away with on this site.
Because Democrats are NOT equally responsible for our 17 trillion dollar debt, or the government shut down. But don't let facts get in the way of your ideology.
Partisan? So you approve of allowing people to suffer and die because of your party's political games. Thought so.
Will you accept ACA payments from your new customers? If you have any.

Anonymous said...

Why is it that my 27 year old single son must pay for pregnancy and new born care? Why is it that a 55 year old female must pay for this care as well.

Face facts, Obamacare is not intended to be paid for it is intended to expand the entitlement program for the "less fortunate".

okjimm said...

Anon's last comment is lame. If you own property...and pay taxes on that...you are paying for schools...whether you have children in school or not. If you buy and consumable goods...you pay taxes...for roads and bridges..whether you drive a car or walk.

I should not have to pay for State Parks...because I do not go there?
I should not have to pay for Congress...because I do not vote?
;I should not pay for...you name it....and if I do not use it...????

lame lame lame lame.....get a life or go get a beer...but do not talk stupid unless you have had plenty of the later and none of the former.

okjimm said...

//You must have insurance that meets the obamacare criteria or you will be fined. Somehow that does not coincide with free choice//


as Shaw has pointed out...it has been deemed legal, and affirmed, that states have the ability to mandate car insurance. It is not a strech to include the Federal Goverments mandate to include Health care...and the ACA acts has been deemed legal, by the Supreme Court, right now, a decidedly conservative body. Anon's 'freedom of choice' argument is old,stale, and does not stand. Not having insurance IS the driving force that pushes cost up for everyone.

My daughter was hit by a motorist last January by a uninsured driver with alcohol levels just UNDER the legal limit. Fortunately, she had put uninsured motorist on her policy...as well as Gap insurance to cover all deductables. STILL she had to procure a lawyer...to MAKE the insurance companies pay. Her car was totaled, she incurred over $7K in medical bills...guess who pays??? OTHER RESPONSIBLE DRIVERS WHO BUY INSURANCE!!!



The Affordalbe Care Act is not only trying to get Health Care for everyone...but an effort to help control cost. We all need to think this through....instead of offering nothing but knee jerk reactions that solve nothing. And, truly.....there are things thast need fixing.

Anonymous said...

OK

Good answer and spot on from the entitlement mentality. Problem with your response is driving a car and owning a house are voluntary not mandated.

BB-Idaho said...

The arrogant Texas congressman pretty well sums up the Tea Party side of the issue.

LesCarpenter said...

" Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...
Harrio is in the Senate. The House has the money strings. So go ahead and blame the one who cannot authorize payment.
So Mr. Sanders is not human? Nice slur, which you continue to be allowed to spew on this site.
Now call me an idiot, great, another slur only you can get away with on this site.
Because Democrats are NOT equally responsible for our 17 trillion dollar debt, or the government shut down. But don't let facts get in the way of your ideology.
Partisan? So you approve of allowing people to suffer and die because of your party's political games. Thought so.
Will you accept ACA payments from your new customers? If you have any."

My response to this is... It does not merit a reponse. Other than my Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...
Harrio is in the Senate. The House has the money strings. So go ahead and blame the one who cannot authorize payment.
So Mr. Sanders is not human? Nice slur, which you continue to be allowed to spew on this site.
Now call me an idiot, great, another slur only you can get away with on this site.
Because Democrats are NOT equally responsible for our 17 trillion dollar debt, or the government shut down. But don't let facts get in the way of your ideology.
Partisan? So you approve of allowing people to suffer and die because of your party's political games. Thought so.
Will you accept ACA payments from your new customers? If you have any."

My response is... It doesn't deserve a response. Other than my immediate prior sentence.

Have a wonderful weekend BSAR.





(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Anon: "Problem with your response is driving a car and owning a house are voluntary not mandated."

Problem with your response ... matters of life and death are mandatory, not voluntary.

Anonymous said...

ACA stands for Asinine Communist Antics.

Just because practically the whole world went for Marxism is no indication that we should too. We used to be leader, the one with fresh ideas, the one who did so well that people flicked here by the millions trying to get in, the place millions of illegal aliens are glad to live in, despite their limited status, because their lives in their native countries are so wretched.

The thinking of advocates of centrally planned economies and unlimited central government is simply wrong. Popularity is no indication of value.

One look at who is famous and who is rich these days compared to people whose names are unknown and uncelebrated who've made real contributions to life and raised living standards for humanity should tell you how right I am.

SIR REEBRALL, Defender of the Faith and Lord of Liberty

Shaw Kenawe said...

As I have repeated time and agin, people cannot pursue life, liberty or happiness [what the TeaPubls say are sacred guarantees in the D.o.I. our Founding Fathers signed) if they're made bankrupt by a catastrophic illness or accident.

What is it about these hard-headed blokes who have to be taken kicking and screaming into the 21st century of sharing the cost of health care.

I've yet to hear anyone offer up a reason for NOT having universal health care like every other civilized nation on the planet has.

EVERY CIVILIZED NATION ON THE PLANET has some form of universal health care for its citizens.

All of you Anonymice: Give us a sane reason for not getting a country of 300+ million people on board and participating in pooling their premiums to drive down the cost of insurance and health care.

What is the reason for NOT doing that? I mean besides hating President Obama for finally accomplishing this task; something presidents-Republican AND Democratic--have been trying to do for 100 years.

Is there something the TeaPublicans know about the countries that have a form of universal health care that the citizens of those countries don't know?

What is it? Come one. Tell us.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Anonymous@4:59,

If there's anything that deserves the label "asinine," it's your comment.

Those Fox News talking points get no traction here.

It is the forward thinking countries that provide universal health care to their citizens.

Third World countries, failed states, and the United States of America do not.

Your foolish reasoning is all backassward.

FreeThinke said...

PREDICTION: With "Universality" will come higher costs through excessive taxstion, lower standards, lower quality, reduced levels of availability for everyone rich and poor alike, and eventual bankruptcy for the nation.

Better, I guess, that everybody should be equally deprived than that a majority be well taken care of and a minority put on Medicaid.

Decent healthcare has never been unavailable to anyone thanks to the Hill-Burton Act and Medicaid, but I predict that Obamacare will soon change all that very much for the worse.

Buyers Remorse is waiting in the wings ready to plunge the country into misery and deep regret.

But in the immortal words of Hillary Clinton, when she had her temper tantrum over Benghazi not long ago: "What difference does it make?"

The Democrats will get their way, and that is really all that matters, isn't it?

SIR REEBRALL, Defender of the Faith and Lord of Liberty

Shaw Kenawe said...

"The Democrats will get their way, and that is really all that matters, isn't it?"


Do you really believe only Democrats will like the A.C.A.?

Plenty of Republicans will love it and the A.C.A. will be appreciated by those who have not been able to get coverage.

Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...

You don't have a response in the face of facts that prove you wrong. So go peddle your arrogance somewhere else. Maybe you would like to try and explain your BS delusions, not backed by the facts. Thought not.

Rational Nation USA said...

BSRA.... You're a JA. Play your silly games elsewhere

okjimm said...

Anonymous said...
//OK

Good answer and spot on from the entitlement mentality. Problem with your response is driving a car and owning a house are voluntary not mandated.//

....and your original premise was flawed in that...no matter if you have insurance through a private carrier or ACA...part of you premimum WILL pay for someone else's prenatal or other services..it is STILL a collective...not a selective coverage. gees, get a reality grip.

Both Sides Are Responsible?? said...

The fact that you refuse to respond to the facts, issues and situations, but just spew ugly names at people proves you have nothing to contribute but garbage.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Please take your arguments elsewhere.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Please stop allowing RN to call people stupid and tell them to piss off.

Anonymous said...

Pelosi has more balls than Boehner!

FreeThinke said...

One of two George Whytes -- don't know whether the real or the false, and don't particularly care, since I respond to the MESSAGE more to the person -- posted the exact message about the AMA and all those other organizations supporting the ACA.

I responded to "George" with these words:

'And what would make you think sensible people would trust the AMA and the insurance Industry anymore than they trust any OTHER enormous power bloc?

'What you and your "cohorts" -- and too many RINOS in power -- don't not understand is that people such as I are not against government per se, we are against TOO MUCH POWER concentrated in ANY one location, be it Government, Industry, the Enemedia, the Church, or any particular Pressure Group.'


_________________

I can't understand why everybody does not understand that government by its very nature is THE biggest MONOPOLY imaginable.

You CAN change your job. You CAN change your location . You CAN shop in a variety of stores. You CAN eat in a variety of restaurants. So far, you CAN change your doctor and, except in cases of dire emergency. you CAN choose the hospital in which you are to have a surgical procedure and the surgeon who will perform the task. You CAN choose among different rehabilitation facilities, and you CAN choose any nursing home you like from a wide variety available in your area. HOWEVER, you haven't a prayer of a chance of changing your GOVERNMENT. -- And please don't give me the usual balderdash about "working through 'the system' and using the ballot box" to effect change. That and ten bucks might buy you a decent hamburger these days.

Right NOW the vast majority of us still have FREEDOM of CHOICE to a high degree when it comes to obtaining medical care. Once Obamacare sets in that blessed freedom is very likely to be taken away for good and all.

I have had VAST experience with our system of healthcare for myself and several loved ones over six decades, and have NEVER found it unsatisfactory or unmanageable, EXCEPT during my father's final illness when MEDICARE forced our local hospital --- where my parents had made voluntary contributions of time, money and service for decades, including my father's stint on the Planning Committee for the large addition that to double the size of the place --- MEDICARE forced them toto DUMP my father into the STREET, because he had outlived his lifetime Medicare Benefit Days.

Never mind that he was blind, incontinent, incoherent, and weighed only 65 pounds after three months in in the place. we were forced to take him home in that miserable condition. Mercifully he died only four days later.

When I tried to register a complaint with the "Social Worker" who had been put in charge of my father's case, she looked at me from her fat face with eyes as cold as stone, and said in abrasive, uncultivated accents, "Face it, Mr. FreeThinke, no one here gives a God damn about your father, so you might as well save your breath."

NICE, eh?

That was GOVERNMENT talking -- not our family physician who had been a family friend for many years. He and Dad had served together on the Board of deacons at our Church. With tears in his eyes, he told mother and me, "I'm so sorry, but because of government policy, my hands are tied. I could lose my license to practice, if I tried to defy their orders."

And THAT, ladies and gentleman, occurred in the summer of 1976 -- THIRTY SEVEN years ago.

And YOU believe that GOVERNMENT can do a better job of administering health care than a system run by private hosptals and private physicians?

Don't you REALIZE that it MEDICARE has been the single greatest factor driving up Medical Costs to their present astronomical levels?

And you want even MORE government control?

I'm astonished and deeply distraught at the height, depth and breadth of utter FOOLISHNESS that pervades the thinking in our country today.

Shaw Kenawe said...

I too have had a vast experience with Medicare, and it is completely different from yours. My mother was desperately ill, and our experience was one of compassion and total commitment to helping her leave this life with dignity.

How could two people have such a different experience?

Rational Nation USA said...

"How could two people have such a different experience?"

Answer Shaw, Government Bureaucrats.

Shaw Kenawe said...

George Whyte wrote: "You're being spammed by an impersonator making a fool of you and your friends. I DO NOT POST AT CONSERVATIVE BLOGS (unless it is to warn them about this fraud)."

G.W. you need to ignore whoever is doing this to you.

The asshat who's impersonating you has actually done us liberals a favor. He has shown how easy it is to deceive and make a fool of the people on those conservative blogs--something FAUX NOOZ has made a career of doing to them through its lies, deceits, and tomfoolery.

This conservative fraud who is pretending to be you has illustrated perfectly how they operate. They cant win arguments on merits, and they can't deal with people who oppose them so they resort to trickery and dirty tricks. That's all they've got. They are empty vessels who can only use deceit and cheating to make their points.

They have done you and us a favor by pulling the dirty trick of impersonating a liberal blogger, you! That behavior is a perfect example of what they are and how they are operating in this Republican shut down.

That the bloggers where the fake George Whyte has been posting haven't the smarts to know they've been had is enough proof to show how easily duped they can be and are into believing lies and distortions.

As I said, the asshat impersonating you has proved to everyone how gullible and easily they swallow lies.

You, George Whyte, August 2013, have done the liberal bloggers a great favor! The asshat has used you to make fools of them!

Shaw Kenawe said...

Sk: "How could two people have such a different experience?"

RN: "Answer Shaw, Government Bureaucrats"


So you're suggesting that "Government Bureaucrats" and not the medical staff at the hospital and hospice, were responsible for making my mother's death less painful and traumatic for her?

Um, I was there. I can assure you no "Government Bureaucrat" was present. The only ones present were my sisters and me and my dying mother. And the incredible, caring people who were covered by my mother's Medicare and who helped us through this terrible time.

Rational Nation USA said...

You mentioned Medicare, I responded to that mention.

Everyone should be treated as your mother was by their caretakers. May your mother rest in peace.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, it would be so much better to talk in person than to read comments. Better way of communicating. Written words don't always carry the day.

Atrios said...

How Many Weeks?

Maybe Obama should offer to sit in a dunking booth for a few hours? That's really what this is all about. The Republicans just want to get a "win," to make that man in the White House who shouldn't be there look "bad" somehow.

They're weird people.

George Whyte, August 2013 said...

"Sam HuntingtonOctober 4, 2013 at 12:25:00 PM EDT
Note for George Whyte: If you continue the “drive by” comments, you’ll be deleted out of hand. Got it?"


The fools think they're talking to me. They ARE NOT! THEY'RE TALKING TO ONE OF THEIR OWN KINE PRETENDING TO BE ME!

How incredibly stupid is that????

How long before they figure out they've been had. Royally. Maybe never. They're not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed, are they.

Jerry Critter said...

"MEDICARE forced them toto DUMP my father into the STREET"

Private insurance companies do that all the time, only they don't wait that long, often before the patient even gets in the hospital.

FreeThinke said...

PART ONE

I really KNOW what I'm talking about, Jerry, because I'm describing my own REAL LIFE experiences -- not quoting statistics from a liberal or conservative propaganda mill to bolster a preconceived point of view drilled into my skull by an educational system bent on killing individualism and replacing it with a society made up of obedient, quasi-robotic automata.

This Parallel Universe phenomenon never ceases to amaze me. How "my" world could be so different from "your" world and vice versa strains the bonds of credulity. Yet, I am sure that neither side is actually lying.

FreeThinke said...

PART TWO

I am in my seventies, lived most of my life from my twenties through my fifties in "statistical poverty," yet I never FELT poor, and always managed to live well, because I believe I was blest with good parents who instilled good values in me, and I have known instinctively how to prioritize the activities in which I've participated, and t be realistic about what I could and could not afford.

When I say "statistically poor," I mean I was making between eight and twelve thousand a year.

I got caught without health insurance when I moved to another state and stupidly didn't realize I wouldn't be permitted to take my Blue-Cross, Blue Shield with me.

I'd had a couple of frightening experiences with panic attacks that led me to the ER where I was diagnosed with irregular heartbeats. It was NOT a serious problem, and was quickly resolved once I understood what it was, but it was enough to disqualify me from getting Blue Cross when I moved from one state to another. As it turned out, I had to wait three years before I could get health insurance again.

Nevertheless, I always managed to keep my head above water, and never failed to pay the ever-increasing rates for health insurance once I regained it, because IT got top priority along with the monthly mortgage payment.

I always ate well, enjoyed the company of any number of friends, but "wine women and song" stayed last on the list, which was why I was able to manage so well.

FreeThinke said...

PART THREE

People today seem to resent even the merest HINT that they ought to restrain their impulses, exert discipline on themselves and adopt a policy of voluntary austerity to combat the high cost of living.

I guess we're all living in "Wonderland" these days. Common Sense has been virtually forgotten, and everyone seems to think he has a "right" to have everything handed to him on a silver platter simply because the is alive.

I come from a family of immigrants on one side who were very poor when they arrived in the USA -- theirs was the stereotypical immigrant saga -- and a hardscrabble Yankee working class existence on the other.

Everyone did very well by working very hard on his own. No government assistance was available, and if it had been, the family would have been much too proud to take it. They were active in the Church, and derived much benefit from that in myriad ways.

There was no income tax and no capital gains tax in those days either, which meant that if you were smart, robust, ambitious, worked hard, saved money, bought property and invested judiciously in the stock market, you could do astonishingly well.

All the male members of my mother's family graduated from college -- practically unheard of a hundred years ago -- and within the span of one generation the family had an aggregate net worth of several million dollars.

That kind of unprecedented opportunity was the main reason so many millions participated in The Great Migration from Europe in the latter part of the nineteenth century and the early twentieth.

This ruinous notion that putting ourselves in the power of an almighty kleptocratic government that systematically robs us of our money so it can "give" us the things IT believes we need most, and deprive us of the things IT believe we ought NOT to have is in my mind the absolute ANTITHESIS of the radical libertarian ideals on which this country was founded.

We have becomes a nation filled with weaklings, crybabies, arrogant beggars and militant morons as a result of liberal-progressivism. The WORST part of it is that the more we GET from government, the more we DEMAND, and the ANGRIER, more SELFISH, more SULLEN more UNSOCIABLE and more IRRESPONSIBLE we become.

The poor people of my grandparents and parents generation were good humored good sports for the most part, and they knew how to have FUN. I saw it and experienced it, myself. They enjoyed each other's company, shared modest pleasures freely, and managed to live much better than people with a great deal more disposable income than THEY ever had do today.

Despite all its challenges and difficulties, life was more enjoyable and more rewarding before collectivist thinking started to dominate the nation.

That's not an OPINION it's a FACT.

Rational Nation USA said...

It seems evident that facts are not the same for all Free Thinke. I relate to yours quite well as my grandparents and great grandparents, to some degree my own parents as well experienced the realities of which you write. My father. who turned 81 yesterday instilled in me the values and principles of which you speak. A hard task master he taught me the value of hard work, personal responsibity, tenacity, honesty, and respect for myself and others. My mother, who passed 6 years ago shared with my father these values and principles and lived them with him. Thus my siblings and me never lacked loving firm guidance as we grew up.

Thank you FT for sharing your story, it brought some vivid memories for me. Ones that I had not visited nearly often enough.

Jerry Critter said...

It is interesting how "your" (not you personally, FT, the generic your) antedotal evidence is always more significant than someone else's antedotal evidence.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

FT and RN are typical libertarians who think because they made it through difficult times that everyone else should be able to do it exactly as them and their families did, because to them everyone is the same, all people have the same luck, all people have the same psychological help to deal with catastrophe, and fuck you to those who don't measure up to what their histories are.

this is the Ayn Rand mentality of peoole who believe in the philosophy of a shitty writer who took, by the way, advantage of the "socialist" goodies this country offered her.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

My family history is no different from other accounts narrated herein: Immigrant grandparents, hardscrabble lives, traditional values such as a strong work ethic and an entrepreneurial spirit. My grandparents, both maternal and paternal, came to America as children – penniless and parentless. From my maternal side sprung the writers, musicians, and scholars of the family. On my paternal side were the entrepreneurs who built a family business that became a household name throughout America.

My generation received the full blessings of this country. My parents worked hard and earned the means to send me to a first rate preparatory school followed by a first rate ivy league college. In later years, I studied abroad, and lived and worked in London and Paris.

Despite my own good fortune, I have never forgotten the struggles of my forbearers, especially my great grandparents who remained in Europe and ultimately perished in the Holocaust.

It is the memory of my great grandparents that causes me to regard with deep, deep suspicion the eliminationist and abusive rhetoric that I read all too often in these comment threads – a tendency to regard oneself as superior to others, and a tendency to vilify and offend others in this forum as “weaklings, crybabies, arrogant beggars and militant morons as a result of liberal-progressivism.”

It strains credulity when I read the experience of one commenter who lost health insurance due to a pre-existing condition and refuses to lend empathy to Lady of this Blog and the millions of other families who have suffered similar calamities.

It strains credulity that a country such as this, a country that conferred its full blessings on my family, would have a government characterized as “kleptocratic.

I read these biographical accounts with a sense of incredulity - assertions wholly disconnected from historical facts, personal opinion raised to the level of absolutism, an inordinate focus on self tinged with misplaced blame, and an inability to validate the family histories and life experiences of others.

Carlo Fortunato said...

"The WORST part of it is that the more we GET from government, the more we DEMAND, and the ANGRIER, more SELFISH, more SULLEN more UNSOCIABLE and more IRRESPONSIBLE we become."


The "anger" and "selfishness" seems to be concentrated in the person who wrote this screed, not the liberals.