UPDATE BELOW.
No. This isn't satire.
She really believes it, and even expressed it publicly.
No kidding. Really.
This woman ran on the Republican ticket as vice presidential candidate for the United States of America in 2008--not 1692. But she sure sounds like someone out of the 17th century when witchcraft, and other superstitious, insane and crazy ideas were believed just because some hysterical person shouted them in public places..
"The Republican National Committee sent out a research document claiming the House legislation is encouraging euthanasia. Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC) said it was placing “seniors in a position of being put to death by their government.” Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin picked up this meme on Friday and took it further in a statement she posted on her Facebook page:
"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."
These claims are complete lies.
The House bill would simply give seniors the option of speaking with an expert about advanced care issues, such as living wills.
As FactCheck.org explains, “[I]t requires Medicare to cover counseling sessions for seniors who want to consider their end-of-life choices — including whether they want to refuse or, conversely, require certain types of care.”
On Friday, HBO host Bill Maher questioned Republican Reps. Darryl Issa (CA) and Jack Kingston (GA) about Palin’s “death panel” statement. “It’s a scare tactic, no question about it,” said Kingston, who added that there are no death panels. Issa ignored the question and tried to change the topic."
h/t ThinkProgress
After making an extraordinary, unsupported and incendiary claim that President Obama's health care plan will result in a "death panel" that is fundamentally "evil," Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin is now calling for civility in the debate on health care reform.
In a Facebook posting on Friday, Palin lashed out a scenario "in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."
Although former House Speaker Newt Gingrich yesterday jumped to Palin's defense, many other conservatives are casting her comments as "crazy". There is nothing in any of the proposed health care legislation that would set up anything remotely like what Palin describes.
Now, in her latest Facebook entry, Palin seems to be wanting to change the subject. She writes:
There are many disturbing details in the current bill that Washington is trying to rush through Congress, but we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment. Such tactics diminish our nation's civil discourse which we need now more than ever because the fine print in this outrageous health care proposal must be understood clearly and not get lost in conscientious voters' passion to want to make elected officials hear what we are saying. Let's not give the proponents of nationalized health care any reason to criticize us.
There are many disturbing details in the current bill that Washington is trying to rush through Congress, but we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment. Such tactics diminish our nation's civil discourse which we need now more than ever because the fine print in this outrageous health care proposal must be understood clearly and not get lost in conscientious voters' passion to want to make elected officials hear what we are saying. Let's not give the proponents of nationalized health care any reason to criticize us.
47 comments:
This is the kind of statement Republican leaders should be speaking against, because it is so absurd.
Instead, people like Newt have come out and said they agree with her statement.
As I suggested in your previous post, how can we get away from this kind of false extremism, if leaders of her own party endorse her false, dangerous speech?
Oh really thanks for this information...... but i don't believe on you Miss Plain....
"On Friday, HBO host Bill Maher"
Bill Maher would be one who would probably not have a problem with Palin's "death panel", if it existed. He's the guy who said that handicapped children are sub-human and should be treated like animals.
(i.e. Bill Maher is the last person in the world you'd want to see speaking about a matter involving handicapped children. It's like David Duke interviewing people about civil rights for Africam Americans. If Maher ran things, Palin's fears would easily be realized).
dmarks,
The subject of the post is Sarah Palin, and not a cable teevee news comedian.
I don't know why you bring Maher into a discussion of a woman who would have been second in line to be the leader of the free world had McCain won the election.
What she stated in a public forum was so hyperbolic and baseless that it's hard to believe that she isn't trying out for some comedy show herself.
Your bringing Maher into the discussion as a sort of equivalent just doesn't work here, unless you, too, believe Palin is now a show biz comedienne and nothing else.
Maher compared dogs to mentally retarded children--very stupid to do.
But just this weekend I read that studies have shown that dogs have the same mental capacity as 2-year old humans. So it would be valid to compare--mentally--very young children to dogs, or mentally handicapped/challenged people to dogs, if their mental capacity is only at the 2-year old level.
But one shouldn't go on teevee and make jokes about this. It's just not done, and it offends too many people.*
Look at the firestorm that occurred when President Obama made a mild slip-of-the-tongue about his bowling game and the Special Olympics.
You would have thought he had said something as horrific as comparing someone to the murderes Hitler and Stalin!
In fact, I was on some conservative site just yesterday where Mr. Obama was said to "act like Stalin!"
I wondered where exactly Mr. Obama had hidden the millions and millions of bodies he murdered in order to earn that comparison.
*[Here in the Boston area, we are famous for asking someone who makes an inane statement "What AH you? RE TAAAAAH DED? That is as Bostonian as is WICKED PISSAH!]
"Don’t talk to me about death panels, Sarah Palin.
You, who so carelessly bolstered a lie about healthcare reform to score a cheap political point; you, the most craven of political opportunists, who fearmongers about some dystopian socialist/fascist fantasyland; you, who earlier this year were only too happy to accept free medical, dental and veterinary care from the U.S. military for Alaska’s remote villages; you, dear lady, are an idiot.
In your free market wonderland everyone somehow manages to get healthcare, even those who are poor or live in isolated areas, though the poor and isolated in your own state required assistance from the federal government.
And despite all of this, you appear blithely unaware that the free market healthcare system we have now does, indeed, have 'death panels.' I’ve been part of a death panel conversation. I know about death panels.
You have no idea what it’s like to be called into a sterile conference room with a hospital administrator you’ve never met before and be told that your mother’s insurance policy will only pay for 30 days in ICU. You can't imagine what it's like to be advised that you need to 'make some decisions,' like whether your mother should be released 'HTD' which is hospital parlance for 'home to die,' or if you want to pay out of pocket to keep her in the ICU another week. And when you ask how much that would cost you are given a number so impossibly large that you realize there really are no decisions to make. The decision has been made for you. "Living will" or no, it doesn't matter. The bank account and the insurance policy have trumped any legal document.
If this isn’t a 'death panel' I don’t know what is."
Dmarks deftly tried to change the subject from Palins silliness to an attack on an enemy of conservatives. As a political hack, I say well done Dmarks. Too bad it didn't work but you have to remember whom you're trying to defend. Some ships just have to sink Brother. The S.S. Palin is one of them.
But as the right wing always does, when the facts don't back up their positions, they make up ones that do.
The wingnuts are aware that anyone who listens to them is crazy, so all stops are off. I accept their premise, that only those mentally incapable of self-government are still in the wingnut camp.
Shaw: "don't know why you bring Maher into a discussion...."
You brought him into this discussion, with the parent post.
"Your bringing Maher into the discussion as a sort of equivalent just doesn't work here"
You brought him into the discussion. I never said he was an equivalant to anyone other than David Duke (as Maher's hateful view toward the disabled is similar to Duke's of African-Americans and others). I did not equate these hateful kooks with Obama, ever.
"Look at the firestorm that occurred when President Obama made a mild slip-of-the-tongue about his bowling game and the Special Olympics."
It wasn't that "mild" if you take the dehumanizing of the disabled seriously. It was surely no more "mild", than, say Don Imus' racist joke. But apparently hate agaisnt disabled people is OK and hate against African-Americans is not. (IMHO, I think both types of hate are not OK).
"You would have thought he had said something as horrific as comparing someone to the murderes Hitler and Stalin!"
And you brought Hitler into it, not me. It is important to note that Hitler started with the disabled, before he started with the Jews. Maher's "mild joke" would have fit very well then.
Sorry, you are digging yourself into a hole on this. I did not defend Palin, but you are defending Maher and downplaying Obama's little bit of hate speech as "mild".
(Also, a minor point. Just as TV is spelled TV, the condition that Trig Palin has is called "Down Syndrome", not "Downs")
--------------
Truth: I did not change the subject. Maher was a big part of the parent post. Now, what exactly did I make up? You accused me of that. Back it up.
(Truth: The only part of your comment that made sense was when you spoke of yourself as a political hack).
hey shaw that guy "Conservative" is dissing you over at his blog:
Sarah Palin is the Democrats' worst nightmare. And if you read some of the LIBERAL'S blogs such as Shaw Kenawe's Progressive Eruption's http://progressiveerupts.blogspot.com/2009/08/palin-believes-president-obama-wants-to.html
You would think that Sarah was a complete Idiot who said that Obama has a 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society.”
What Sarah did say was " that President Obama's Health Care plans are "evil" and it COULD lead to a "death panel."
Sarah Palin is a freedom fighter! She is honest, tough and I pray people will start listening to her instead of the Chicago thugs.
Sarah Palin is just saying what most people are thinking!
The post was about Sarah Palin backing up a lie about euthanasia Dmarks. Shaw pointed out that Representative Kingston admitted it was a scare tactic on Maher's show.
Maher had nothing to do with Palin's embracement and spreading of a lie.
You tried to change the discussion to Bill Maher instead of defending Palin's embracement of said lie Dmarks. I was simply saying nice try Buddy. You failed. Shaw will have a new post up before long and you can try again.
It is curious how Palin has no problem with using her Downs Syndrome child to spread lies about President Obama's health care plan, which has no such thing as a "death panel" in it anywhere.
Conflating "death panel," "my baby with Downs Syndrome" and "Obama" in the same sentence is really the lowest form of political hackery, and yet her fans will ignore this example of her roaring hypocrisy, in using her child for making political points.
Had anyone else on the planet used her Downs Syndrome baby to spread a vicious lie, the conservative right would have been out with pitch forks and torches demanding their execution.
It seems what we have here is a cynical double-standard.
Sarah Palin the Democrats' worst nightmare? Is that what they think over at Conservative's blog?
Hell, we LOVE Sarah. We want her out there shooting her mouth off with her insane ideas at every chance she has.
That can only help the Democrats.
Afraid of her? No. Keep her talking.
We Love Sarah!
Truth said: "You tried to change the discussion to Bill Maher"
Actually, it was no change. Bill Maher was part of the post.
" was simply saying nice try Buddy. You failed."
What did I fail at? Probably something I did not even try to do. You are really clutching at straws here.
dmarks has a gift for conflating remarks made on television entertainment programs by comics like Bill Maher into government policy while ignoring remarks such as those by the likes Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney regarding fictitious WMDs which led up to the tragic, completely unnecessary and hugely wasteful invasion of Iraq.
My comment about Maher was about him, and him only.
Arthur: A gift.... for something I never did? I was speaking only of Maher and his loathesome views which are related to the subject. I never said his views were those of the government, or implied it.
Rumsfeld and Cheney do happen to be off topic, actually. Perhaps Shaw can edit the post to remove Bill Maher and replace the reference to him with a reference to Rumsfeld and Cheney. Then the claim that I was off-topic, and attempting to divert the subject would actually be true.
This morning, David Brooks called Sarah Palin's 'Death Panels' comment 'crazy.' That's the absolutely correct approach to take in reporting on this debate. But it shouldn't be coming only from partisan journalists from either side of the aisle. Television anchors and print journalists should be reporting these ravings as 'crazy talk' as well. And they should do more. They should make a real effort to educate people about what the truth is about health care. Tell people what is and is not in the bills. Tell people what might conceivably be problematic and tell people what might possibly work very well. Explain how the current system works. Explain how the system works in other countries and give an honest account of the pros and cons of other systems.
The Netherlands has universal single-payer healthcare, and it includes "death panels" to kill the "defectives". So the situation Palin voices fear of is real.... elsewhere. Not here.
I agree with the critics of Palin that the current healthcare system going through Congress is not single-payer, nor does it have death panels. So she is not correct on this.
(So, there you have my general views on the non-Maher content of Shaw's post)
Keith Olbermann, in his special comment tonight, touched on two of my themes in this post:
Witchcraft and Palin using her Downs Syndrome baby to score hysterical political points.
Organ donations are based on need. Emegency room treatment is based on need. The worst go first. Those in the most need that are the most likely to benefit get the kidneys and hearts and livers Dmarks.
Do away with that system and the wealthy get the organs regardless. While I admire your Atlas Shrugged devotion to the richest Dmarks, I do find your callous attitude towards the poor troubling.
Boo Man brings up a VERY good point. All we hear on our news stations is crap. Why aren’t our so-called journalists informing us about what is GOOD and what is BAD in this bill? No, they would rather play witch hunter against Obama, Palin, Beck, Pelosi or whoever they are against depending on what side of the aisle they are one. It’s a total waste of air time. The American people NEED and WANT real answers to some practical questions, but what do they get? CNN pointing the finger at Fox and Fox pointing the finger at MSNBC, etc. It’s just ridiculous and this is too important for game playing.
Our legislators have tried to answer our questions, but they can not be heard over the screams of those who do not want us to hear their answers.
Captain Fogg is pissed and Octopus agrees.
Tom: I'm not talking about our Reps. right now. I'm talking about our news stations on tv, radio and print. Why aren't our journalists doing investigative work to find out what's good and bad about the bill and inform the American people? Maybe they could even earn back a good name for themselves in the process. Goodness knows our news has been sorely lacking for years.
There are no government 'death panels' in the Netherlands actively weeding out the 'defectives' and the elderly.
http://www.euthanasia.cc/dutch.html
More lies. The former governor has a very tenuous relationship to the truth. And she has fans guilty of playing fast and loose with inconvenient facts.
Thank you Pam,
I knew what you were talking about.
I would rather hear answers from the people writing the bills, defining the details, and responsible for the work product.
I don't trust anyone in this process, but at least we can hold the Reps. responsible for what they tell us.
The news has become nothing more than one sided bloggers going at each other.
If I watch MSNBC and then FOX, I still won't get a clear answer between the two of them. A waste of 24/7 live broadcasting.
C-Span at least has unedited broadcasts of some of the committee meetings. I have watched a few.
The press should be doing a better job, but it's legislators responsibility to tell us what they are doing.
I heard Keith's special comment tonight, shaw. And I read your comment you posted earlier today. Maybe his staff is reading you're blog and getting their ideas here?
Good work!
I would rather hear answers from the people writing the bills, defining the details, and responsible for the work product.
I would, too, Tom. That's the LEAST our Reps owe us. I just get so tired of our media, well lack there of, so I just don't bother watching it. Maybe if they actually did "journalistic" work, more intelligent people would tune in.
I've tuned into to CSPAN a few times myself and I like it. At least you don't get screaming and hollering there!
Palin's comments would be merely humorous if she didn't have her loyal followers actually believe everything she says. When a public figure distorts the truth like this then they must back it up somehow...extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Palin doesn't feel the need to speak honestly. Since she was tapped to run as McCain's vp, she's been able to use her physical attributes and her family values to validate whatever nonsense comes out of her mouth.
If Sarah says it; it must be right.
Afterall, she's brilliant!
And a saint!
Arthur: There are, and they have killed children already against the wishes of the parents. This is in the Netherlands.
Truth "While I admire your Atlas Shrugged devotion to the richest Dmarks, I do find your callous attitude towards the poor troubling."
That is a complete straw-man attack. I said nothing like this, and these are not my views. You aren't doing very well in these comments.
I wasn't even talking about ER and organ donations. Perhaps you are responding to someone else's comment on someone else's blog. Big oops.
Spin it any way you like dmarks.
You are defending Palin's remark Shaw included at the top of the thread.
If. If. If. But. But. But.
Sorry.
Obama isn't going to kill little Trig. Trig is left clasped to the warm bosom of the star-struck and hugely dysfunctional Palin family.
Bye the bye. There are no 'death panels' in the Netherlands. There are families who make extremely difficult decisions with their doctors. As it should be.
Refreshingly though the Dutch, as so often is the case, cut right through the hypocrisy surrounding so much human endeavor to deal with problems as they really exist.
On the other hand we do have death panels in the US.
Mine is called Primera Blue Cross.
Arthur said:
"Obama isn't going to kill little Trig."
Talk about spin. You are attempting to argue with me on points I do not agree with, and never made. I already said that Palin was wrong, and that the US plan (which can be said to Obama-run) does not include death panels.
"You are defending Palin's remark Shaw included at the top of the thread."
Actually, I did not address Palin's comments until a little later, when I mentioned she was wrong (not correct). Again, you appear to be not bothering to read anything. See the second paragraph, at comment August 10, 2009 8:35 PM.
Maybe you are confused and are responding to the same other person who was ranting about organ donations that Truth was.
On the other subject, by the bye, hospitals and doctors in the Netherlands make decisions to kill newborns against the family's wishes. It's not very "pro-choice", when the doctors force their will on the mothers and families, is it?
I mention this as an example of a country which actually does do what Palin mentioned fears of.
Actually you don't make a single remark about Palins egregious lie in this entire thread dmarks. Ample opportunity to point out an obvious falsehood and you fail to do so.
Odd.
And you're always so particular about the 'facts'.
My reading stands.
Arthur said:
"Actually you don't make a single remark about Palins egregious lie in this entire thread dmarks"
Again, See the second paragraph, at comment August 10, 2009 8:35 PM.
I made the comment. I referred you to that comment in my previous comment to you. I refer you to it again, so now I have referred to Palin being incorrect a total of 3 times in this thread, so far.
You'd be better off reading than standing.
shaw that guy who we can't mention used your comment as a blog post:
BPB: I always thought that blog could easily just have a link to keith olbermann/hitler's talking points and thats all. No other thought would have to go into it even though I know no thought goes into it at all.
I'm thinking either it is olbermann in drag, or olbie needs to sue shaw for plagerism.
guy's so dumb he thinks you plagiarized from Olbaman when you said the opposite.
i think most of these people make thier shit up just to be smart asses.
they certainly don't know how to read.
LOL!
I responded with exapmles of panels that make life and death decision right here in the USA Dmarks. It was in response to you comment here: The Netherlands has universal single-payer healthcare, and it includes "death panels" to kill the "defectives". So the situation Palin voices fear of is real.... elsewhere. Not here."
Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made. I acknowlege and appreciate your agreeing that Palin was wrong in her statement about "death panels."
Right you are dmarks.
My bad.
Subtle to be sure. 'Liars' from the left get a bigger bounce in your posts.
"Subtle to be sure. 'Liars' from the left get a bigger bounce in your posts."
Does liars need quotes? One might assume, the way you set the word out like that, that you are implying that no-one on the Left ever lies.
Typically, though, I am not a "winger" who harps a lot on liars on the left.
Assume away. It can't be helped.
"Typically, though, I am not a "winger" who harps a lot on liars on the left."
Thanks for the chuckle dmarks.
Again, you probably have me confused with someone else.
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