Shaw Kenawe asks.
• Sarah Palin: Seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care." Pants on Fire!
THE TRUTH: 'Death panels' are not part of Obama's health plan. It's not clear where Palin, the former Republican governor of Alaska, came up with this idea. A "comparative effectiveness" board in the health care bill evaluates treatments, not patients. And the board's conclusions aren't binding. And the bill allows Medicare to pay for counseling sessions on end-of-life care, but it's not required (and it doesn't require euthenasia!)How much clearer can that be? Why did Palin lie about this part of the bill? And now, since we've discovered she lied, why would anyone believe anything else she says?
• John Boehner: The Democrat-backed health care reform plan "will require (Americans) to subsidize abortion with their hard-earned tax dollars." False
THE TRUTH: In the first go-round, health bills didn't mention abortion. A recent amendment, though, seeks to broker a neutral compromise. People can choose a health plan with coverage for abortions, though not subsidized by tax dollars. Another option will allow people to choose a plan with no abortion. Boehner, the House Republican leader, is wrong that subsidies for abortion are required.
Why is Boehner lying about this? And why do the screamers and the hysterical know-nothings spread this false idea?Betsy McCaughey: The health care reform bill "would make it mandatory — absolutely require — that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner." Pants on Fire!
THE TRUTH: There are no mandatory sessions. Instead, for the first time, Medicare will cover doctor appointments for patients to discuss living wills and other end-of-life issues. These appointments are completely optional, and the AARP supports the measure. McCaughey, a conservative commentator on health, misses the mark.
Another liar from the Right whose mission is to influence the weak-minded to believe in outrageous nonsense so that she can serve the interests of the insurance industry.• Chain e-mail: "All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services." Pants on Fire!
THE TRUTH: Nobody gets completely free health care in the bill, and certainly not illegal immigrants. The basis for this rumor is a generic nondiscrimination clause that says that insurers may not discriminate with regard to "personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." But the e-mail leaps to an incorrect conclusion.
• Chain e-mail: In the health care bill, "The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None." Pants on Fire!
THE TRUTH: The Health Choices Commissioner oversees a health insurance exchange where people shop for individual policies. People will choose from several different offerings, so this statement is just wrong.
Are we beginning to see a pattern here of deceit, rumors, lies, and egregious lies? Hmmmm?• Barack Obama: "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." Half True
THE TRUTH: Obama was trying to make the point that employer-provided health insurance will stay in place under his plan. But the truth is, employers will be free to change policies, just like they can now. So you can only keep your health plan if your employer decided to keep it.
Mr. President, more discussion is needed on this, and more precision when you do so.
• Russ Carnahan: "The Congressional Budget Office most recently came out and analyzed the current (health care) plan and said that it was not only deficit-neutral, but also that over 10 years it would create a $6 billion surplus." False
THE TRUTH: The CBO has not scored the plan as deficit neutral. In fact, they found that it would add $239 billion to the deficit over 10 years. Democrats hope new pay-go legislation will help the CBO score, but the CBO hasn't confirmed that. Carnahan is a Democratic congressman from Missouri.
Get your facts straight, Russ. You're not doing us any favors by saying stuff that isn't true. Between the outright pants-on-fire lies coming from the right and the false statements like this, we'll never get this done.
• Karl Rove: Under a public health care option, 120 million Americans will "lose what they now get from private companies and be forced onto the government-run rolls as businesses decide it is more cost-effective for them to drop coverage." False
THE TRUTH: Rove, a Republican strategist, cites a study that actually says that many people would select the cheapest health insurance plan if given a choice. People would not be forced onto a government-run plan.
Nice going Rove. More "false" statements by the righties.
• Roy Blunt: "Democrats have failed to answer the most basic question of how they want to pay for the more than $1 trillion of health care spending." Mostly True
THE TRUTH: Blunt, a Republican congressman from Missouri, said this back in May, but it's still Mostly True. Democrats have different ideas on how to pay for health care, and it's one of the great unanswered questions in the debate so far.
Could it be that subject has gone undebated because the SCREAMERS would rather direct attention to Mr. Obama and their belief that he's HITLER/MUSSOLINI/STALIN? That'll work.
19 comments:
"People can choose a health plan with coverage for abortions, though not subsidized by tax dollars"
Which health plan is this? The government controlled one, or the private ones?
Truth dont matter to the folks your talking to Ms. Kenawe.
Shaw, the latest post on healthcare reform here.
It also references recent posts by Captain Fogg, Bloggingdino, Rockync, and Maleeper. These netroots conservations may be our last and only chance to turn this around.
Your continued support of healthcare reform appreciated and welcome.
Shaw, I just visited Pamela's forum and saw your comment. For what its worth, I left this comment:
"Pamela, I was about to post a comment about a recent visit from friends who were on their way to Mayo Clinic. They stayed at my place for the weekend. She has a treatable cancer but her treatment was interrupted by her insurance carrier. This is the type of abuse that healthcare reform attempts to address.
I was about to provide a link to the full story until I saw how Shaw was being treated here.
You and I, Pamela, have been championing the cause of civility and mutual respect for several months, but then I read the vicious smear and jeer targeting Shaw in this comment thread, and I am absolutely appalled. This is shameful, intolerable, and deplorable beyond excuse ... so I am out of here too.
What a pity."
Thank you, (O)CT(O)PUS,
I was very discouraged because Pam IS one of the rare conservative bloggers who normally does not allow that sort of invective at her blog.
That sort of behavior is also very telling about the sorts of people on the right who scream the loudest to drown out anyone they disagree with.
There is absolutely no point in my going there so long as they call me those hateful names.
It is a pity.
dmarks,
read what it says.
RAA,
Anyone who is a fan of Lenny's is welcome here. He had an incisive way of telling the truth through his routines that I still quote to this day. Especially "Religions, Inc.," a classic.
Shaw: "There is absolutely no point in my going there so long as they call me those hateful names."
Severing these ties has actually been liberating:
1 - Some of our Zone colleagues have been impatient with me about my outreach efforts, especially when their trolls do insulting "drive-by" shootings;
2 - I no longer have to watch what I say in fear of treading upon their ultra-sensitive sensibilities;
3 - Where conversation, comprise, and consensus mean something to me, how can one have a reasonable discussion with folks who perpetuate paranoid conspiracies, misread and misquote texts, argue in circles, and then get offended;
3 - It leaves me more time for research and writing ... compared with the time wasted arguing with them.
To tell the truth, it feels like a ton lifted off my shoulders.
shaw,
you and TRuTH 101 are being trashed over at that Pamela D. Hart blog where she has a sign up- where she asks people to be respectful of other snd not be vulgar and then the bully pitbull comes on and is horribly vugar and attacks you and TRUTH?
that woman has left all of those up attacking you. i guess she means people should be respectful except to liberals.
another reason to never believe anything they say or do. they're filled with rage and hate and are using you to show us how mean-spirited and hateful they can be.
"3 - Where conversation, comprise, and consensus mean something to me, how can one have a reasonable discussion with folks who perpetuate paranoid conspiracies, misread and misquote texts, argue in circles, and then get offended"
That fits Capt. Fogg to a "T". I just tangled with him at Swash.
Anon: I've been targetted by BPB and the Troll Patrol several times already.
Anonymous,
I can't control what goes on at someone else's blog nor can I do anything to stop he-who-must-not-be -mentioned from trashing me at his blog or anywhere else.
But I can and will ignore the people who feel empowered by attacking me.
dmarks,
I wasn't aware you've been attacked as well.
There's no need for this behavior. Well at least if you're a mature adult.
You and I have a lot of differences, but never have you resorted to that sort of thing, nor has Gordon.
PS. I understand Pamela was away all weekend, and had no control over what was happening in the comments. That makes more sense. She's has a sense of justice, and had she been able to, I'm sure she would have stopped the attacks and name-calling.
Well, I now know that the troll is not BPB. There's a good likelihood that it is Grey Headed Brother using multiple names. I withdraw my comment about BPB.
(And Shaw, I did read what it says. It was unclear. About abortion and the government plan)
"There is absolutely no point in my going there so long as they call me those hateful names."
Shaw, I can understand that and don't blame you. When you are called names and criticized it lowers the whole maturity level of the post/blog. I've received that from the other side, not the others that comment, but of the actual authors. It really shows the lack of character.
"That fits Capt. Fogg to a "T". I just tangled with him at Swash."
Dmarks, I couldn't agree with you more! A pity to be sure. It's ironic that all the names he calls other fits himself so well!
Shaw,
Regarding your post, I don't agree with the myths that have been circulating around, including Palin's comment. My issues is with government control. I think that those that subscribe to them, hurt the views of those that simply don't want government in control of health care.
Jennifer,
I understand your concern. I have read your ideas and Pamela's. You both actually contributed something thoughtful to the discussion.
I remember when you were attacked for being an independent thinker and how you were hounded out of the blog you wrote for.
We all understand something has to be done about the health care problems this country faces. I went through a difficult time with no insurance when I faced a life-threatening illness 3 years ago.
I do not wish that nightmare on anyone.
Thanks for stopping by and for your support.
"We all understand something has to be done about the health care problems this country faces. I went through a difficult time with no insurance when I faced a life-threatening illness 3 years ago."
I can't imagine what that must have been like for you. To go through the illness is horrible enough but to worry about not having insurance on top of that, it's just too much. I don't have insurance right now, because my husbands company dropped it. I worry about my kids constantly and I am trying to find something that I can actually afford.
I've had anxiety for over 12 years and have finally found something that is working. (chiropractor) It's giving me my life back and I have to figure out some way to pay for it.
Insurance is too important, not to find an answer to. What we have now is not acceptable and we need change. I think we can all agree on that.
I'm glad you are doing well now!
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