The Alaskan governor who quit her job has the distinct honor of having her "Death Panels" lie named as one of FactCheck.org's top ten whoppers of 2009. Palin's lie has already received the top prize for biggest lie of the year from PolitiFact, and now she is being recognized as a very good liar by the people at FactCheck.org for her gross falsehood on "Death Panels."
Congratulations, again, to Sarah Palin.
52 comments:
NEWS FLASH!!!!!
SARAH PALIN AIN'T THE PRESIDENT!
the election was over 13 months ago and she still shows up here ALMOST everyday.
Obama when this is all said an done will be remembered as the President that ruined America. The greatest place to live is destroyed by this man who from the get go has hated America.
You are hilarious, and pathetic.
Detroit rapper's "Bad Santa" (Christmas/ Kwanzaa) Album is pack with your Christmas/Kwanzaa favorites including.....
.
Frosty the Wino
Oh Come All Ye Gangsters
I Saw Momma Blowing Santa Claus
Here Comes Michelle ..with all here expensive presents.
The Chipmunk Thong
Over the Crack Pipes and Through the Bums (to Big Daddy's Daddy’s House We Go)
Jiggle these Bells Fool
Chestnuts Go Nuts Open Fire
All I Want fo Christmas is My Two Government Checks
There’s No Place Like Home for the High Drama
Burglar Up on the House Top
Little Bucket Drummer Boy
Suzy Cokeflak
Santa Claus is Coming to Town (and Daddy Still Aint Come Back)
Dear GuyWithAnOpinion,
You need to get a real life. Prowling liberal blogs to defend a liar is not a healthy way to live.
It doesn't take a great deal of intellectual vigor to say someone has "destroyed" America.
It is obviously not true [you don't name exactly what has been "destroyed," as any evidence to back up your rant.] To people like you, truth and reality are what your writhingly confused minds tell you it is--your "truth" has absolutely no basis in reality.
The only way for you to justify your lies and calumny is to falsely claim-again without one shred of evidence--that Mr. Obama has "from the get-go...hated America." Childish bullshit.
Be careful whom you call pathetic, GWAO. You are the one who stalks liberal blogs, compelled to defend an idiot and to vilify a president whose job it is to clean up the Herculean disaster left behind by the previous administration.
Wow! Back so soon to publish your puerile cri de coeur?
And you called me pathetic?
LOL!
We know that Kwanzaa is an African-American celebration, and your racist posting that you just deposited here tells us more about your sad, lonely, and unhappy heart.
Shaw Kenawe said...
We know that Kwanzaa is an African-American celebration, and your racist posting that you just deposited here tells us more about your sad, lonely, and unhappy heart.
you can take the boy out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the boy.
Merry Christmas Shaw!
FactCheck's record notwithstanding, it's pretty easy to discern why there are death panels in all of the proposed legislation coming from Democrats, even if there is no language that explicitly describes such an entity.
The left always comes back with the canard that insurance companies capitate care by setting limits on what they'll cover and pay, which is true enough. The difference is that insurance companies can't limit what you do with your own money, like government run programs. Also, with government run care (make no mistake, that's what this is), there is no recourse against the government, no appeal automatically available, like you have with private insurers.
Finally, the math doesn't work. You can't add millions of insureds without raising taxes, maintaining "revenue neutrality" without both rationing care and reducing quality. You can't, that is, without using market based solutions, like high deductible, catastrophic care coupled with health savings accounts. Enforcement of various provisions in the commerce clause will allow individuals to purchase policies across state lines and tort reform will eliminate unnecessary procedures. But, the left doesn't want solutions, it wants control.
CB,
What ideas do the Republicans/conservatives have to solve the unacceptable problem of millions of Americans without insurance and millions of Americans who are bankrupted because of catastrophic illnesses?
I have a personal experience of being denied insurance because of an existing condition. That, to me, was a real "death panel" instituted by an insurance company for a pre-existing condition.
With the help of the government in Massachusetts, I was able to get insurance and go on to obtain the medical help I needed to save my life.
This is real, and it is not an isolated case.
If we can find the means to support a war in the Middle East with a country that did not attack us, and where we are now funneling millions of dollars to repair its infrastructure, we can find the means to insure our fellow Americans so that they don't have to face real death panels brought to us by greedy fat-cat insurance execs, whose only interest in the health of this nations is in how much money they can make off of it.
As long as the Republicans define Palin as a serious, intelligent, credible political candidate, it is fitting to match her oratory with real facts.
Since she fails miserably, I have to wonder why she is so popular among Republicans.
It just did not make sense (on a 3rd grade Math level) that we could continue to cut taxes without cutting spending.
Where were the concerns about overspending from the Republicans the last 30 years?
Death panels have been around for decades, in the management offices of health insurance companies.
Shaw,
I'm glad you asked. I have sleep apnea, my wife has had health issues and my youngest of 5 children has cerebral palsy. We are both self-employed, so you can imagine the struggle we've had to keep coverage.
Here's a classical liberal's response your concerns, I don't know what Republicans will say. The Commerce Clause of the Constitution should be enforced. States have been allowed to set up anti-competitive arrangements with insurers to protect their own revenue. I can't buy a policy offered in Texas, for example. Why not?
In other words, get government out of the way. We also over insure, which drives up the cost. Most of us should only be paying for catastrophic care, not care that anticipates when you will sneeze or get a paper cut on your finger. There is a vast difference in the cost of insuring that spectrum of care.
The use of tax free health savings accounts does two things; it enables those who use them to pay for care with pre tax dollars and it encourages account holders to shop for services. Too much of the inflation is because the consumers of care are removed from the purchase process. You wouldn't allow your employer to purchase groceries for you, for example, so why allow them to purchase your health care? Costs will come down and quality will improve as consumers make more decisions.
It's also important to consider what this was supposed to be about; cutting costs and increasing access to care. It devolved into giving Obama something to talk about at the State of the Union address and is loaded with special deals to win votes having nothing to do with either increasing access or cutting costs.
Finally, what you're advocating is bringing the success of the TSA, Post Office, Amtrak, FNMA, FHLMC, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to health care. So much of what's wrong with the rise of costs and limitation on access is due to government involvement. Yes, Medicare is about to break the bank and costs need to be addressed but not with the same government that put it in this position, it needs to be privatized.
Good luck with turning Medicare over to the private insurance companies. They would run as fast as possible away from that responsibility.
That would be their nightmare, to insure the portion of Americans that have the highest medical bills.
The philosophy of health savings accounts sounds fine, but the same people who cannot afford health insurance premiums, cannot save enough to cover medical bills.
If an operation costs $150,000.00 and insurance covered all but $30,000.00, most people are still bankrupt at those kind of numbers. Health savings accounts still fail at stopping the severe economic national problems caused by overinflated medical costs.
Means testing Medicare would be a good reform, too. I don't see why the government has to give away healthcare to rich people who can afford their own.
CB...
You are absolutely right...this bill is an absolute disaster and it is nothing but a feeble attempt by Obama to buy votes and give him something new to read off his teleprompter!
...and he got 60 senators and a whole bunch of house members to go along!
So, then...
You always want government to be local...except when it comes to healthcare, hmmm?!
So, you want to buy a policy in Texas? Go ahead...you CAN buy that policy but it won't do you any good because none of the doctors in Nashville will be covered....
But that is a minor issue isn't it? What is the difference in this "Texas Policy" that you cannot find in Tennessee? Considering that rates that are paid are based upon zip codes and what is usual and customary for a zip code: That policy MAY be cheaper in Texas but that does not mean it will be the same price in Tennessee.
This concept of allowing insurance carriers to compete accross state lines really won't do a thing, BC/BS and or Anthem, United, Humana and so on and so forth operate in all states and what they can offer is just as much controlled by the state insurance commissioner as it is by local providers.
That won't change a thing...
Tort reform...another BIG issue that everyone loves to throw around...
There is some assumption that savings will be passed on to providers and providers will pass those savings on to consumers...
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE INSURANCE your insurance carrier and the healthcare providers agree to a fee schedule and the doctor gets paid a set fee regardless of what his malpractice insurance is...
Tort reform will do absolutely nothing to lower costs because most contracts between providers and health insurance companies are long term (3 to 5 years).
The current legislation takes away pre existing conditions and maximum lifetime caps from insurance policies, which have killed lots of people in the past, but it does nothing to establish anything different that could be regarded a 'death panel'
All insurance companies currently have 'committees' that decide what they will cover and what they will not...those are not going away so the EXISTING death panels will continue as they always have...
Can't claim that anyone is doing anything different now with this new legislation that isn't currently being done.
I have an HSA...and my doctor who took $86 dollars for an office visit from my last insurer, and agreed to take $60 for an office visit from another carrier according to a recent newspaper article tried to charge me $116 once I had an HSA...
So the whole argument of 'shopping around' and putting the consumer 'in charge' is bull...
Doctors do not have menus like restaurants where I can pick and choose what I want and know what it is going to cost me...
Why not allow hospitals to refuse treatment if one cannot pay? That would dramatically decrease costs....
Why not just accept the fact that no one has a RIGHT to healthcare...then that would solve all of our medicare and medicad issues along with ending the debate over healthcare reform.
Hospitals are struggling because they can no longer afford to provide treatment to those who cannot afford to pay. Medical expenses, even for people with insurance, is the number one reason individuals and families declare bankruptcy, and why do you believe that everything the government does is corrupt and inefficient and yet if a private company does it is not corrupt nor inefficient?
NO CB, the reason you cannot provide anything even close to resembling a solution is because all you and your conservative buddies focus on is that YOU have insurance...what you fail to realize is that your premiums go up every year but if you ask your doctor he is getting paid the same he got paid the year before...so where does the need for increasing premuims every year come from if healthcare providers are not raising their rates?
Tao said: "This concept of allowing insurance carriers to compete accross state lines really won't do a thing, BC/BS and or Anthem, United, Humana and so on and so forth operate in all states and what they can offer is just as much controlled by the state insurance commissioner as it is by local providers."
Actually, there are 38 different BSBC companies. Imagine if they were all forced to compete against each other?
"That won't change a thing..."
I beg to differ. None of the different BSBC companies compete against each other. This would be a big difference.
They wouldn't compete against each other...
What could they compete on? They all share the same medical database...so their risk calculations for each and everyone of us would be the same, as would the rates they agree to pay to medical providers.
Within months they all would consolidate and there would only be one BC/BS...
They all use the same claims processing software, the same contracts with providers, the same drug management firm....
Heck, when you use Anthem in Kentucky and you have employees in Georgia they refer to BC/BS in Georgia as their 'sister' company...
Did I miss something?
Did Barack Obama spend his Christmas in Amsterdam where he and his administration took over security at the airport and personally searched all passengers on flights to the USA?
To the idiot who posted as "Anonymous:"
I have two words for your idiotic rant:
Richard Reid.
Now please go crawl back under your rock.
Tao said "Within months they all would consolidate and there would only be one BC/BS..."
No reason to believe that they would suddenly do that, when they could have done this years ago.
Tao and Shaw: I see you both commenting to was was probably an off-topic rant about Obama and and the pantsbomber. Well, that is my guess. The rant is gone, and I probably don't miss it.
But it reminds me that the graphic used for this post would also be perfect for discussions of this latest terrorist in the news.
Shaw Kenawe said...
To the idiot who posted as "Anonymous:"
I have two words for your idiotic rant:
Richard Reid.
And I have a couple of words for you SHAW! Mao Tse-tung
The Left is so angry with the president that even Palin-hating liberal college professors like David Michael Green are saying things like this:
"Like any good progressive, I've gone from admiration to hope to disappointment to anger when it comes to this president. Now I'm fast getting to rage."
"How much rage? I find myself thinking that the thing I want most from the 2010 elections is for his party to get absolutely clobbered, even if that means a repeat of 1994. And that what I most want from 2012 is for him to be utterly humiliated, even if that means President Palin at the helm. That much rage."
Great job, Barry. Keep up the good work.
This author Shaw Keawen seems to have a read problem with Sarah Palin. Bur she finds Obama to be flawless.. Although we should never expect a politician to solve our problems, or save us from life's challenges, it can't hurt to respect a politician whose values are quite similar to the Founders' principles.
As for the "Flawless One" he has done nothing but lead us to third worldism, destroy our economy, make us look weak to our enemies, take us to socialism and bankrupt our country. And liberals have the nerve to call Sarah stupid and bad of America..?
Only a mentally deranged liberal would even remotely consider there being a comparison between George Wallace and Sarah Palin. Duh, Andrea is deranged so that explains that much. The race card only works within liberal circles. Average Americans aren't buying into it.
From what we know about Sarah Palin, it looks like her values resonate with conservatives and independents, which make up about 70% to 80% of Americans. She has a faith in God which sustains her in her personal and professional life.
She also possesses an energy and optimism about America, which this fool knows nothing about.
People are furious at the thought of any further debt spending. This man is beyond clueless.
s a sorry excuse for a human being and will one day be known for exactly what he is!
I am convinced: Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al. crave the destruction of America as we know it, as it was established by the Founding Fathers. They actively seek to alter the very fabric of our great nation for reasons of their abominably insular ideology and willful ignorance. To say that the American constituency must rise-up in 2010 with the equivalent of a thunderous vote of "No Confidence" is putting things mildly.
The fact is most newspapers work very hard to spin the truth to a left-wing perspective in order to further extremist, left-wing ideas. However the newspapers fail to report the greater context of the facts. They do it on purpose, though, in order for the spin to work better.
For instance, the "news" has been floating the idea that the recent unemployment numbers did not grow and newspapers have marked that as an "unexpected drop" in unemployment as if it's all good news. However, few papers have bothered to mention that this has been a tiny drop in rates during a steady years-long rise in unemployment. The impression is that good news was had, but the facts prove otherwise. Context is ignored in order to make Obama seem a success.
Anyway, it is amusing to see the Media crying that Palin is messing with them like this. An unexpected Christmas present if there ever was one.
To the charlatan "Mike:" I found your comment, excuse me, YOUR PLAGIARIZED COMMENT over at the "Texas for Sarah Palin" blog posted by Josh Painter, not "Mike":
The Left is so angry with the president that even Palin-hating liberal college professors like David Michael Green are saying things like this:
"Like any good progressive, I've gone from admiration to hope to disappointment to anger when it comes to this president. Now I'm fast getting to rage."
"How much rage? I find myself thinking that the thing I want most from the 2010 elections is for his party to get absolutely clobbered, even if that means a repeat of 1994. And that what I most want from 2012 is for him to be utterly humiliated, even if that means President Palin at the helm. That much rage."
Great job, Barry. Keep up the good work.
h/t: Dissecting Leftism
- JP
Posted by Josh Painter at 11:40 AM 1 comments Links to this post
Labels: anger, barack obama, liberals, palin, rage, sarah, sarah palin, the left
A link IN the comment produces this:
"Although the article is a view from the far left, it shows that liberals are finally realizing the danger posed to our nation by the inept Obama and out-of-control Democrats in Congress. What took liberals so long to wake up from their Obama-worship stupor?"
So quoting this academic would be equivalent to a liberal producing a quote from a rabid wingnut--an extremist. Who cares? Not mainstream liberals.
Nice work "Mike" in stealing someone else's words and pretending they are yours.
Typical of people like you, who have no intellect of your own to use for ideas, so you cheat and grab other people's words and pass them off as your own.
Wingnuts like you come here and do this on a frequent basis. Come back when you have something original to say.
Wait.
On second thought, don't bother. Here's what the link to your name says:
Profile Not Available
The Blogger Profile you requested cannot be displayed. Many Blogger users have not yet elected to publicly share their Profile.
If you're a Blogger user, we encourage you to enable access to your Profile.
You don't even have the courage to be who you are. Why should anyone give a flying donut about what you post?
As for you "CONSERVATIVE GIRL WITH A VOICE," you are another conservative charlatan. You are so dumb you didn't even re-read your plagiarized, garbled nonsense.
Hint: My name is not Andrea, and nothing in any of my posts on Palin compares her with George Wallace.
Here's what you copied and pasted, you foolish idiot:
"Only a mentally deranged liberal would even remotely consider there being a comparison between George Wallace and Sarah Palin. Duh, Andrea is deranged so that explains that much."
The rest of your rant is taken from various rightwing blogs, as a quick search on Google proved, after I plugged in your plagiarized comments.
You "Conservative Girl With A Voice," like "Mike" are a phony with no "voice" of your own, as you have so hilariously and pathetically shown us all by your own inept copying and pasting,.
Please don't return. Only grown-ups with ideas --not idiot cheaters--are welcome here.
It's telling to see that people like CGWAV and "Mike" are the sort of wingnuts who adore Palin.
Birds of a feather, and all that...
LOL!
The link to Conservative Girl With A Voice's plagiarized comments is broken, but here's a sample from Google of "her" copying and pasting:
#
Predictions For Palin in 2010 | Red County
Dec 26, 2009 ... From what we know about Sarah Palin, it looks like her values resonate with conservatives and independents, which make up about 70% to 80% of Americans. She has a faith in God which sustains her in her personal and ... to bring in disaffected conservatives, as well as independents and moderates. ...
www.redcounty.com/predictions-palin-2010/35189?taxonomy=26 - Cached -
#
National | Red County, Part of the Red County Network
These famous conservatives were able to channel political donations in the ..... From what we know about Sarah Palin, it looks like her values resonate with conservatives and independents, which make up about 70% to 80% of Americans. She has a faith in God which sustains her in her personal and professional life. ...
redcounty.com/national -
#
It's a Kwazy Life: Analyzing the Sanity in Politics That Control ...
From what we know about Sarah Palin, it looks like her values resonate with conservatives and independents, which make up about 70% to 80% of Americans. She has a faith in God which sustains her in her personal and professional life. ... 15 hours ago. GOP Alaska - Daily News of Interest to Alaskan Conservatives ...
thomasalamb.blogspot.com/ - Similar -
#
Texas for Sarah Palin
From what we know about Sarah Palin, it looks like her values resonate with conservatives and independents, which make up about 70% to 80% of Americans. She has a faith in God which sustains her in her personal and professional life. ... This morning, Mitchell was asked about Sarah Palin and the conservative ...
According to CGwaV's profile on "her" blog, she has a degree from San Diego State University in English and Journalism.
Excuse me?
Apparently she missed the day her professors gave the lectures on plagiarism.
It is the biggest transgression any writer/journalist can make, and CGwaV has done it in flying cheating colors here at PE.
Anyone can set up a blog and pretend to be what they are not.
And here's more of the pretender, CGwaV's plagiarism:
#
Old Media Whines That Palin is Mean to Them
Dec 26, 2009 ... The fact is most newspapers work very hard to spin the truth to a left-wing perspective in order to further extremist, left-wing ideas ... However, Klein is right that newspapers fail to report the greater context of the facts. They do it on purpose, though, in order for the spin to work better. ...
www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18314 - Cached -
#
Stop The ACLU
Dec 17, 2009 ... The fact is most newspapers work very hard to spin the truth to a left-wing perspective in order to further extremist, left-wing ideas. However, Klein is right that newspapers fail to report the greater context of the facts. They do it on purpose, though, in order for the spin to work better. ...
www.stoptheaclu.com/ - Cached - Similar -
#
Texas for Sarah Palin
The Left is so angry with the president that even Palin-hating liberal ..... The fact is most newspapers work very hard to spin the truth to a left-wing ... However, Klein is right that newspapers fail to report the greater context of the facts. They do it on purpose, though, in order for the spin to work better. ...
texas4palin.blogspot.com/ - Cached - Similar -
hey shaw--the wingnuts are out in great form today--
you really scorch their asses-- espcially when you write about palin--they send out their robot brigades of palin defenders to go after anyone who dares to point out her idiocy--keep up the good work shaw--it is funny to see how the dumbest of the dumb are all palin supporters--
As always, the wingnuts trot out their favorite things in one happy package; God and patriotism. And then there is the vague references to the beliefs and statements of those “Founding Fathers” that only they are privy to apparently.
And yet, a study of our dear founders as I did at the Swash Zone just a year ago in a piece called Faith of Our Fathers tells a much different story than the GOP fairytale.
http://swashzone.blogspot.com/2009/01/faith-of-our-fathers.html
(sorry, I still can’t figure out how to embed a link)
From Thomas Jefferson’s own lips, “But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg . . . . Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error."
And from Benjamin Franklin,” As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his Divinity.”
There is much more from others of that era but this is a comment, not a post.
On to patriotism ~ the idea that the Democrats are socialists bent on destroying this country is so laughably childish, it’s almost not worth addressing. There are men and women serving in our armed forces from both sides of the political fence. It is both insulting and unpatriotic to insist that those who serve and who have died so you can live to spread your nasty lies are somehow less “American” because of their political leanings.
Being in a business that depends on a healthy economy, I have been watching what is happening in my area very closely. We lost a Dell plant and the last of our textile factories which was bad. But, in the last six months, we have had several new industries move in, some new start up businesses and at least one furniture factory that had been closed has reopened. This has not refilled all the jobs that were lost but it is steps forward in the right direction.
Personally Shaw I think this is all a waste of time, falling on deaf troll ears whose only desire is to disrupt and annoy, much like petulant spoiled children wanting attention when the adults are talking, but I tire of the constant tall tales and mindless insults and occasionally stoop to actually trying to educate.
Anon said: "And I have a couple of words for you SHAW! Mao Tse-tung"
How many words IS that, really?
Malcontent...
First off I know Rocky and she is REAL! Which is more than I can say for the two prior posters whom you so gladly associate yourself with...
In regards to your service...good for you! Glad you served and did so on a voluntary basis...
But that doesn't make your opinion worth one bees knees more than anybody elses...
It doesn't make you anymore correct, anymore important, and it doesn't get you to the front of the line for anything...
First and foremost we are a democracy and we believe in equality...which is what you fought to defend...so why not live the ideals for which you risked your life for?
Screw You too Tao. I won't put up with her or you or anyone else saying the things that she did about patriotism.. as is she is the only one that knoews the meaning of it.. I have news for you she don't know CRAP about it.
Shaw can delete my post if she likes to, but MY words stand! . I thought Obama’s love-fests around the world were suppose to make everyone love us. Oh that’s right. Obama just can’t overcome all the horror of the Bush Administration. I forgot, silly me. Ok, I will go back in my cave. Call me when Obama moves permanently to Hawaii in 2012.
Malcontent,
I have asked you many times not to attack my commenters on my blog.
I do not go to your blog and attack you or your commenters.
The one time I went there recently was to tell you to stop using my name in your posts as though I had anything to do with anything on your blog. Stop it.
You have a massive anger problem that you need to address. Get help. It is an indication of a very unhappy and very insecure little man.
You contribute nothing but bile and hate whenever you come here. You do not represent conservative ideas at all well when you do this.
I'm telling you to stay away from me and stay away from here or I'll report you to blogger as an unstable and dangerous stalker.
Shaw Kenawe said...
Malcontent,
I have asked you many times not to attack my commenters on my blog.
You won't have to tell me that again...
Bye.
PS Your commenters need help....not me.
Geez folks. Can't we just all get along? ;-)
I have to agree with one thing that rockync said, . . . but I tire of the constant tall tales and mindless insults and occasionally stoop to actually trying to educate. It is most difficult to get any fact into a liberal's head. So, I guess we all will just have to submit to the new Amerika (not a typo) as Obama sees us. Standing in line for whatever the elitists deem to give us. Fair and equal.
.
.
.
That's funny. I for one ain't even gonna submit to the new Amerika. I will do all in my power to not participate in any government program that tells me to buy a certain thing or go to jail if I don't. Get the cell ready.
Jim,
Did you have SSI deductions from you paycheck stopped? Did you buy car insurance? How about home owners insurance? All sorts of things are "forced" on us. It's the law as voted by the majority, and as citizens, we support the rule of law. For those who refuse to follow the law, we have jail cells ready for them.
Jim,
There are lots of things your government tells you to do.
For example, I assume you supported the men who burned their draft cards or went to Canada during the Vietnam War, since the government forced young men into conscription or threatened them with jail if the did not register.
It appears a lot of conservatives have only recently grown cognizant of the fact that we citizens have to do a lot of things the government imposes on us.
Remember that awful legislation on Medicare Part D rammed through Congress with a very sweet deal for Big Pharma?
Were you and your conservative friends tea bagging all over America over that one?
If I recall correctly, there wasn't a peep out of the presently enraged tea baggers over that gross piece of legislation.
You guys have now found your indignation, now that we have a Democratic president. Oh how terribly indignant and victimized you all are now, but not a peep out of you when Bush ran the Iraq war off the books, and gave the top 1% of the richest people in America a tax cut while we were at war.
No one went tea bagging for that gross incompetence.
See--it's about ideology--pure and simple. The conservatives kept their rage on the back burner while Bush NEVER VETOED ONE spending bill--his spend and tax cuts policies drove the US into the ground.
But no tea parties against his profligacy. Uh-uh.
Such gross hypocrisy. This is why we liberals don't take the tea baggers at all seriously, or anyone's indignation over the government making us do stuff we don't like.
Where have you been all your life?
Thank you TAO and SHAW for the kind words of support.
Alas, these guys just validate my position of not engaging trolls who have no interest in intelligent debate or backing up their mindless vitriole with facts and historic precedence.
Notice the first thing that is claimed is that they are former military - who knows if it's true or not. This is used to "prove" their patriotism and somehow negate mine.
No, I'd say the Silly Season is an endless one.
Malecontent has chosen an appropriate moniker.
Me, I've always ever been just Rocky, the Mostly Content.
Shaw said: "If I recall correctly, there wasn't a peep out of the presently enraged tea baggers over that gross piece of legislation."
Seriously, that's all hindsight. The tea party tax protests weren't even though of then.
Might as well bash Republicans for not blogging about Nixon's Watergate crimes back in the mid 1970s. Or why the hell didn't Kos send emails about the incompetancy of the Carter administration back in 1978? Or why didn't Fox News cover the Iran-Contra scandal back in the 1980s?
"Bush NEVER VETOED ONE spending bill--his spend and tax cuts policies drove the US into the ground."
He did veto one, actually, and the Democrats objected strongly. Bush's overspending did cause harm (which is one reason we must recognize that Obama's overspending far worse than Bush is of course a problem too), but the modest relief from punitive high tax levels (his tax cuts for taxpayers across-the-board) helped matters.
"and gave the top 1% of the richest people in America a tax cut while we were at war."
Actually, most of the taxpayers who had their taxes lowered were middle-class, not rich. As for "at war", remember, we were supposed to defeat the enemy. Not defeat Americans through further overtaxation. Really, there's no connection. I'm glad the previous President did not give in to those who said "hey, there's a war overseas. So why not clobber the economy and impoverish people with continued overtaxation."
And we must remember that no tax reduction "gives" anyone anything. It merely lets people keep more of what they earned.
The much worse overspending now, and Obama's unwarranted greed-based tax hikes are certainly no solution to the problem.
Correction. Bush didn't merely veto one spending bill. He vetoed 12. Every one of these involved increasing spending. Before checking this, I'd thought he had vetoed only one or two. It's a far cry from "Bush NEVER VETOED ONE spending bill", sorry.
So, does any one have any idea how many spending bills Obama has vetoed? A quick search showed some threats, but no vetoes. Bush's rate on average was 3 vetoes of spending bills per year. Obama is closing out his first year with no vetoes yet.
So, if the proven-false claim of Bush never having vetoed one spending bill is bad, then isn't Obama worthy of criticism for living up to this claim/
Great dmarks,
On one hand you complain about assigning fault to tea baggers over something before their time.
On the other hand you blame Obama for deficits that have not even happened yet, then claim he's a bigger spender than Bush.
"And we must remember that no tax reduction "gives" anyone anything. It merely lets people keep more of what they earned."
Since we are 12 trillion dollars in debt, just maybe we should not be giving tax cuts to anyone.
Tom said: "On the other hand you blame Obama for deficits that have not even happened yet, then claim he's a bigger spender than Bush."
I didn't. I am only blaming Obama for deficits that are occuring during his Presidency. You should be more careful reading so you won't make mistakes like this in the future.
"Since we are 12 trillion dollars in debt, just maybe we should not be giving tax cuts to anyone."
Perhaps.... fair enough. So let's see Obama start to veto the bad spending bills that increase the debt. It was bad that Bush vetoed too few, but that is no reason to ignore the problem when it goes on now.
Well then you are simply wrong.
The deficit spending by Obama so far does not even come close to Bush's addition to the debt.
"(which is one reason we must recognize that Obama's overspending far worse than Bush is of course a problem too)"
These are your words right?
"Obama's overspending far worse than Bush"
Maybe you should be more careful about the lies you type. Because that's a whopper.
Of course, and for the third time I have had to remind you of this, Obama is still working on Bush's budget. Obama's first budget won't be presented until next year.
Have fun living in your delusion.
"Obama is still working on Bush's budget."
Let's correct the falsehood with some facts:
Have you ever heard of the Obama Stimulus Package? $700 billion? You can't blame Bush for that one! Unlike the bailout during the Bush administration (which was Obama's bailout too: he supported it), Bush wasn't around. The same goes for the forecloser bailout and (much more recently) the Dec. 16 spending bill of $1.1 trillion.
And, sorry to let you in on this, Obama has been President since this past January. Since the day he took office, the buck has stopped there. Bush's budget became his. His to change, his to accept.
"Of course, and for the third time I have had to remind you of this,"
You'd better stop. It's simply not true. Bush is no longer running the country.
"Have fun living in your delusion."
Yes, my imaginary world where Barack Obama has been President for close to a year.
Tom said: "The deficit spending by Obama so far does not even come close to Bush's addition to the debt."
You are nominally correct here, but that is because of a false and misleading premise. The debt is the accumulation of yearly deficits. So Bush's debt was accumulated over 8 years. While the current President's deficit is much higher than Bush's average yearly rate, Obama is not overspending bad enough in one year to ammount to the total of 8 years of Bush. For this, a more honest comparison would be one year of Obama to one year of Bush.
Doggone easy to push buttons at this site I must say.
Most of what you folks say about car insurance and such is about State and Local Laws, not Fed. And when was the last time you heard of anyone going to jail for failing to buy car insurance? I believe that in Texas if you can post a 25 thousand dollar bond you don't have to buy car insurance. You are self-insured at that point.
As to running off to Canada to avoid Vietnam, they made a choice but did not have to live with the consequences of that choice due to Jimmy Carter. I happened to have supported that choice back then. I hope you would have supported my choice to join the Navy as well.
There are a lot of laws that I don't agree with and have happily found ways around them. Such as, not buying or renting in a HOA community. Not registering my car or bikes for years on end. Getting paid CASH instead of with a traceable check. Choices that I've made and will live with any consequence without complaint.
Hey, Tom, I'm self-employed. I don't get no stinking pay check. ;-)
BTW - I did goof in my last post. I meant to say federal government programs. And only those that say one has to buy something mandated by said federal government. Don't forget, it is Constitutional for the fed to collect taxes, tho there is an argument that income taxes is not legal.
Jim said: "And when was the last time you heard of anyone going to jail for failing to buy car insurance?"
That's a real good point. With the gulag provision of this new plan, you can be fined and/or sent to jail just for sitting at home and doing nothing.
Where else does this happen? Taxes, of course.
So, this provision to force people to spend money on health insurance they might not even need is actually a kind of tax. But it's one of those taxes where the money doesn't go to the government, but directly to corporations. It's a tax, alright. If the President signs a bill with this into law, he is breaking his promise not to tax the non-rich.
This sort of tax is not common, but I've seen it elsewhere. Canada has a blank CD tax (equallty indefensible, IMHO) where the money you are forced to pay goes to the music/recording industry, instead of the government.
I found out today that in California you can post a $40,000 bond and not have to buy car insurance. That's what most of the liberal crowd in Hollyweird do! Those that's got the money that is. ;-)
Or any other rich cat. I bet Pelosi ain't got no car insurance.
Good afternoon
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