"At the very center were Mr. Trump’s efforts to pressure Mr. Pence to stop Mr. Biden from being certified as the winner in the Electoral College on Jan. 6, 2021. Mr. Pence had a ceremonial role that day, and Mr. Trump pushed him to exploit it to stay in power.
The pressure included a Christmas Day phone call, according to the indictment, in which Mr. Pence, an evangelical Christian, called Mr. Trump to say 'Merry Christmas.' The president used the call as an opening to ask him to reject the electoral vote. Mr. Pence pushed back: 'You know I don’t think I have the authority to change the outcome,' he said, according to the indictment.
They spoke again on New Year’s Day, when Mr. Pence again said that he had no constitutional authority to stop Mr. Biden’s ascent and that the effort was 'improper,' according to the indictment.
'You’re too honest,' Mr. Trump told him."
*************************************
Trump told VP Pence,"You're too honest," because Pence would NOT go along with Trump's request to break the law.
Well, we know what Trump thinks of honesty and following the rule of law. He believes in neither.
Now comes a typical Trump cultist who's angry at Pence for following the rule of law:
"aaaannnd, Pence loses ANY voter who was tired of Trump’s personality and the legal problems and had considered voting for Pence…..
Good job, Pence. You deserve no votes."
These people exist and continue to admire an ex-POTUS who has demonstrated again and again that he does not respect the US Constitution and the oath of office he took to "protect and defend" it. In fact, Trump betrayed it, and, in turn, us -- the American people.
The person who wrote the above admires the man who was faithless to the Constitution of the United States. She admires a man who is, IMO, a traitor to all the good things this country has stood for for the last 247 years.
"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."
40 comments:
More on the historic Trump indictment.
Whenever we talk about or argue with people on this, we would all do well to remember this...
No where is Trump cited for his speech. in fact Smith affirms that Americans have a 100% right to free speech. Also, Smith is not charging, nor asserting that Trump incited the people of J6 to riot.
Rather, he is saying and charging that Trump, through his actions before J6 and after, sought to nullify or overturn a legal US Election and prevent a Constitutionally required action.
Pretty simple stuff. So all those clowns griping about the DOJ taking away free speech and canceling ppl for what they said, are all lies, or the ppl are too stupid to read and understand the indictment.
Dave M.
The RNC has sent out the memo for all Trump supporters to refer to this latest indictment as an attack on Trump's free speech, EVEN THOUGH JACK SMITH specifically states in the indictment that Trump's false speech is protected, BUT NOT HIS ACTIONS TO interfere with a Constitutionally mandated procedure certify the electoral votes that confirmed that Joe Biden was fairly and freely elected POTUS.
Trump and his cohorts tried very, very hard to interfere with the peaceful transition of power for the first time in American history.
It is depressing to understand that so many weak-minded fellow Americans still cling to Trump's Big Lie about a stolen election and actually want this terrible man to lead America again.
Steve Schmidt:
"Donald Trump desecrated the sacrifices and patriotism of the men and women who laid down their lives so America could endure and survive. He tried to take America away from all of us. Donald Trump isn’t just a failed and seditious president and an accused criminal, he is an abomination and every loyal citizen should be enraged by what he did. He assaulted our ancestors and our descendants, while trying to burn down our way of life and taking our right to choose our leaders from us. It cannot be forgiven, excused, rationalized or minimized. The propaganda of Fox News and all of its derivative media cannot hide the simple truth. Trump tried to destroy the United States. He is a domestic enemy."
I could not have stated it better than that.
Pence now presents himself as defender of the Constitution from the moment Trump exhorted him to help steal the election.
What revisionism. Pence tried every way he could to see his way clear to do what the boss wanted. It took Dan Quayle to finally talk him out of it.
Pence finally did the right thing after not being able to justify the wrong things. But a resolute, principled stand for democracy from the get-go? No way. His was not a profile in courage.
Of course Pence didn't have any such authority. It makes zero sense to claim that the Founders would have empowered the outgoing vice president to set aside an election result. Does Trump think that in 2016, outgoing VP Biden would have had the authority to set aside his Electoral College victory?
Voters who judge everyone and everything by loyalty to Trump instead of to the law are merely cultists.
Lets tell it like it is, J6 was a mostly peaceful protest, with an unknown number of FBI plants and Antifa agitators. They were protesting an obviously rigged election, which has destroyed our Republic. And they were right! We now live in a banana republic where the regime is now trying to imprison the political opposition.. We have a treacherous criminal as our president!
Pence is certainly a man who weighs his decisions with an eye to personal benefit and gain. All politicians do these days. Maybe they always have.
Pence is human, so, after considering his option, there was only one ethical and moral one, he made the only right and proper decision. Ya gotta respect him for that.
Vote for him for president? Absolutely not. Ever. He was a lousy governor and he is too theocratically disposed to lead a secular nation.
Anonymous @8:23 AM
"Lets tell it like it is, J6 was a mostly peaceful protest, with an unknown number of FBI plants and Antifa agitators."
No evidence. FAIL!
"They were protesting an obviously rigged election, which has destroyed our Republic."
Complete balderdash, boloney, bosh, drool, humbug, taradiddle, tommyrot, tosh, and twaddle.
FAIL again.
"We a HAD treacherous criminal as our president!"
There. Fixed it for you.
Now trot back to WYD and have a sparkling day, ya hear?
Les Agree. But the True Believer Trumpers HATE Pence now for choosing to NOT break the law, as Trump wanted him to, and install him as an illegitimate dictator.
That's where the current GOP is today: One the side of the lawbreakers! Weren't they once the "Law and Order" Party?
Infidel753 "Voters who judge everyone and everything by loyalty to Trump instead of to the law are merely cultists."
The problem is that approximately 40% of the voting public fit that description: Cultists in thrall to a guy facing 74+ felony indictments (with more to come), and someone who was credibly labeled a rapist by the presiding judge at the E. Jean Carroll civil trial.
People need to stop talking about how GOP officials did all of these awful things or allowed them to happen with their passivity or tacit approval.
It's GOP voters who need to be examined and confronted with their choice to surrender democracy because their champion promises to hurt the people they hate and resent. That's all the GOP is today. And the leaders are all small people terrified of their voters and desperate to stay in office to the point that they, too, are willing to surrender democracy.
Pence sat there for four years and supported Trump. Now he comes forward? Now he suddenly found a spine? Now, all of a sudden, every ounce of religious morals that was put on hold for four years comes out?
I'm sorry but he's not a hero for finally doing the right thing.
His job wasn't to be the obsequious toady. He also took an oath.
What Trump cultists don't understand:
Rex Huppke
Look, many people told me it was illegal to rob a bank, but some told me it was legal and I believed it was legal. So now you’re going to indict me for robbing a bank that I believed I was legally allowed to rob? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT?!?!
Look, I know that I'm in the senior citizen category (turning 64 soon), and we supposedly are the only ones watching the national nightly news but geez! People really still think all the three big networks ABC, NBC, and CBS are Democratic mouthpieces? Since TFG's first indictment, they may first explain what is the in indictment, but from then on, ALL they show are trumpublican ass kissers who are constantly complaining how unjust and unfair this "two tiered" legal system is. They never show any Democratic congress people who can go on air and say exactly why this needs to be done and how trump's free speech is not on trial. Where are the sane people who can explain this on the nightly news??
All one need do is visit the hard wired Trump cultist sites and sites that claim one party is as bad as the other to fully appreciate the rapid decline this nation is experiencing. As much as i hate to admit it it is our parent's generation and our own that carries the lion's share of responsibility. And most are so reified in their " beliefs" they cannot see the dangers inherent in the path they have chosen..
Anon @ 8:23 AM...
Unless and until you bring some evidence of the fraud and stolen election you allege, your words are meaningless tripe. Worth no more than other sites where ppl engage in banter not based in reality.
But hey, keep trying.
Look, they crimes Trump is charged with center on a plot, that itself is proved by actions and events surrounding J6.
No one can argue that there wasn't a riot at the Capitol. No one can argue that there wasn't a plan to overturn the election with an alternate set of electors. No one can argue that there was a call to the GA Sec of State asking him to "find" extra votes.
Those events happened. No matter what anyone thinks.
But the US system held on against a relentless onslaught from Trump and his minions to do otherwise. But here's the tell... you do not have to be successful in your goals to be involved in a conspiracy. You only need to involve another person and plan to break the law.
And Trump has allegedly done that.
Now, his defense can argue otherwise, but to prove that they will need witnesses, or the accused himself. Trump cannot take the stand because he can't help himself. He will lie. Rudy and the rest of his Co-conspirators could be called to testify to his innocence, but they will defer or take the fifth to save their own skins.
Smith played this perfectly.
No Constitutional issues like free speech, no additional ppl charged so as not to drag it out, and a call for a speedy trial for the good of the republic.
We will see what happens.
Meme...
Cultists: This is not the country I grew up in. I don't even recognize this country anymore.
Reply: Did your cult leader catch another indictment? Cry me a river.
How long before the odds makers figure out how to make the eventual verdict a wagering opportunity to make money? Why not? tRump made the 2020 election and aftermath a shit show, so a betting opportunity on the trial outcome might be kinda fun.
Dave, nothing has been proven so your statement is incorrect. Biden let his son sell his fathers position for money. Which is worse trump trying to find evidence he won or Biden who sold his position. Both of them are disgusting because they do not represent the people.
Will either one go to jail, we’ll see.
Really striking the degree to which Trump's family as entirely abandoned him in public over the last few months as he faces one indictment after another. No wife or sons or daughters by his side. Just an old man alone.
Hey Ralph, you claim “nothing has been proven,” about Trump , then go on to claim something about the Biden tHat has not yet been proven.
Nice try a parroting RNC TALKING POINTS, THOUGH
PS, Trump was indicted for conspiracy to stop the certification of electoral votes, not saying he won.
Only those who don’t know how to read keep repeating your hogwash.
If our corrupt White House and the Department of Justice are allowed to proceed with the persecution of former President Donald Trump, we would have now entered the realm of a tyrannical government typical of a police state, with the LUNATICS In charge of the asylum.
Idol Gossip,
Learn the difference between persecution and prosecution, then get back to us.
Persecution lead to prosecution
Everything against Biden is rumor Everything against trump is fact. As soon as accusations against Biden and son reach the news additional charges are filed against trump. This does not seem to be a coincidence and the media gets their marching orders on what to say because they all say the same thing in the same words. If you don’t believe there are biases in the media and the doj then just keep being delusional.
Trump is guilty but Biden needs to be investigated by an independent investigator, if one exists.
Trump's cult can't grasp why their inane indoctrination fails to make an honest point. All they can do is regurgitate the propaganda and lies. They must feel everyone is as gullible as they are.
My next post will discuss how opinions are formed, and how many people rely so little upon facts to form them.
No way around it. The human species is a fascinating subject for observation. At the core, so many of us are fearful ill-informed creatures seeking comfort in conformity and unity behind a leader. The herd instinct in humans is why we have cults and Trump.
"What was most wrong and dangerous in Trump’s course of conduct was not that it may have run afoul of some federal statutes. It is that he attempted to subvert the constitutional order — a point that he helpfully underscored in December by suggesting that we should terminate the Constitution to reinstate him."
"...whether Trump’s spreading of lies and encouragement of his supporters to pressure Congress and the vice president amounted to an incitement to riot under the Supreme Court’s precedents, and could therefore be prosecuted under our criminal laws, was beside the point for impeachment. (Smith has not charged him with that crime.) It was enough to conclude that Trump was reckless and morally responsible for that riot, as then-House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said at the time, and that he should therefore not be eligible for the presidency again."
Ralph wrote...
"Dave, nothing has been proven so your statement is incorrect. Biden let his son sell his fathers position for money. Which is worse trump [sic] trying to find evidence he won or Biden who sold his position. Both of them are disgusting because they do not represent the people."
Well Ralph... clearly you have a reading issue. As it relates to Trump, reread what I wrote. Especially where I specifically "And Trump has allegedly done that". That means he's been accused, no more.
I focused there because I'm hoping you're not suggesting that there was no riot at the US Capitol on J6 that we all watched or that the plan to overturn the election of Nov 2020 has not been proven, since anyone can see those documents. And I hope you are not suggesting that Trump did not call the GA Sec of State and ask him to "find" enough votes to, some would say "win", and some would say "overturn" the election.
Sadly for folks like you, nothing Trump has been charged with involved Hunter Biden, Joe Biden and any other Biden family member. Everything he has been charged with is his own doing. And whatever any Biden may have, or not have done, matters not one whit to judges and lawyers in the Trump cases.
Well, one who is wise would thank Shaw for pointing out to them that their word usage is lacking.
But that is not in a tRumper's DNA.
I'm enjoying tormenting Idol Gossip and his fellow cultists. You can feel their burning rage and hate over there. All "good Christians".
There's no hate like Trump Christian hate. Their Orange Messiah is infallible.
"Not of this world" is the one truth over there. They live in a reality defined by Trump.
https://ed-bonderenka.blogspot.com/2023/07/a-conversation-with-dr-jeff-barke.html?sc=1691249615372#c2023410300076401339
You're spreading a lie anon and you know it.
"The primary trait of modern conservatives is FRAUD. Nothing else. Fraud is the beating heart of the Republican Party."--Shaun King
Facts to ponder:
-Trials take place in courtrooms
-innocent until proven guilty
-prosecution doesn’t mean persecution
-grand juries indict; not prosecutors
-presidents don’t indict either
-if you need more time to prepare a case don’t go on every Sunday news show
-Billionaires do not need to sell t-shirts to cover their attorney bill
-read the indictment
-read the Constitution
Additional things to ponder
25% of republicans want trump to run
25% of democrats want biden to run
Maybe it’s time to put biased politics aside and get someone who the majority wants and is competent to run the country.
Any ideas?
Anonymous,
Majority rule requires eliminating voter inequality.
Step 1:
The country can't have a president the majority wants until the antiquated, anti-democratic electoral college is dumped into the trash bin of history.
Step 2:
The anti-democratic Senate cannot be representative of the people when 50 Democrats represent 40 million more people that Republican senators. Majority representation is suppressed.
Step 3:
Make it easier instead harder for citizens to exercise their right to vote.
Step 4:
Eliminate partisan gerrymandering.
Tragically only the latter two steps are remotely feasible.
Because the Constitution is essentially relegated to history and is no longer amendable in a country divided by lies, hate and misinformation, and because money buys politicians, the will of the people will always be suppressed.
It is no longer the will of the people.
It is now the will of the people (base) within the party with the gop.
The ultimate goal of republican conservatism is a soft fascist authoritarianism in which corporations and the wealthy control everything. With just enough crumbs and a perk or two to keep the rest of us at least semi content.
It is time for a thorough analysis of whether the revered Constitution needs an updating with a few revisions. A good place to start is to prevent gerrymandering by making it illegal, and eliminate all lobbyists, period. Then dismantle the MIC.
Ms. Shaw, Your response to anon 6:57 is interesting if not telling. What you are saying in step 1 and 2 is only large cities and states matter because that is what would happen if the electoral college is eliminated. So we should just tell people from rural and smaller cities that they should not have rights.
Step 3 is laughable because everyone has access to the right to vote. In the last presidential election they didn't even need to leave their couch joining the campaign from the couch president and look how that has turned out.
Step 4 should go further and eliminate lobbyist and make all elections only funded by a national election fund paid evenly to each candidate.
Come on, Skud. Pay attention, please.
That was MY response.
YOUR position is that rural bumpkins' votes should count more than urban Blacks' votes?
Sounds racist to me. No functioning democratic republic allows such inequality in voters.
Your point on #3 tells us you have NOT being paying attention to how Republican states are trying enable their legislators to OVERTURN the will of the majority voters, restrict drop boxes, move or eliminate polling places, limit voting periods, and every other dirty trick to corrupt our elections.
They are following Trump's war on our elections.
Dube, You need to smoke a better quality of weed because your response was nonsensical. Where did I say anyone's vote should count more than anyone else's. You must have gone to the joey b school of elitism when you refer to people in small towns and rural locations as bumpkins, that's not racism that is just bigotry on the highest order. When all else fails shout racism, worked in the past.
So translate this, please.
"What you are saying in step 1 and 2 is only large cities and states matter because that is what would happen if the electoral college is eliminated. So we should just tell people from rural and smaller cities that they should not have rights."
Looks like you're saying one man/one vote is wrong.
The show is getting interesting. As it tears the nation apart.
tRump and the MAGA'ts have done a most effective job of completely dividing the nation by sowing hate and distrust.
They are, disgusting in my book.
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