Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

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Healthcare vs

Healthcare vs
Torture

Tuesday, August 18, 2009

THE OTHER SIDE WEIGHS IN







REFORMER SUPPORTERS OUTNUMBER CRITICS AT TOWN HALLS

While television cameras have focused on vocal opponents to health care reform, in many cases they have been outnumbered by supporters of the legislation in general and a public option in particular.

In Phoenix, Arizona, "Pro-Obama demonstrators appeared to outnumber the anti-Obama ones, with Phoenix police estimating the crowd at 1,200 to 2,000 at locations around the convention center."

In Boulder, Colorado, "a few hundred residents of one of the nation's more liberal congressional districts turned out Monday night to tell their congressman, Democratic Rep. Jared Polis, to keep that public option, however controversial politically, in the final bill."

"It's the most essential part of the bill," said Leigh Kirkland, in direct response to Sunday's statement from U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius that the public option "wasn't the most essential" part of the reform package.In Fork Union, Virginia, Rep. Tom Perriello faced a more divided crowd, "with roughly half the crowd apparently in favor of reform and the other half opposed.

Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) "held a spirited but civil town-hall meeting Monday night inside a union hall where his supporters outnumbered critics."

And when Rep. Ben Ray Lujan (D-N.M.) held a forum on health care reform he drew an overflow crowd, with a majority on the Democratic lawmaker's side. "A large majority of those present at the first discussion applauded Lujan when he stressed several times that he was in favor of a public option and when Lujan and other panelists criticized insurance companies.

Many Americans WANT health care reform. Unfortunately, only the dissenters have gotten face time on cable news. There is a considerable group of Americans who want reform. And they deserve to be heard as well as the screamers and gun totting nut jobs.

h/t Huffington Post

37 comments:

Tom said...

It's a fake debate. It's fake rage, because what's being debated are untruths about the bill.

Debate illegals getting medical insurance. Why? The bill does not give insurance to illegals.

Debate "death panels." Why? There is no provision that would set up anything like a death panel.

Debate abortions being paid by the "public option" insurance. Why? There is no mention of paying for abortions in this bill. The Hyde amendment would make that illegal anyways.

Debate single payer, or universal health, or national health. Why? This bill does not set up any system like that.

Debate whether or not people HAVE to sign up for public health. Why? There is nothing like that stated in the bill.

And the list of untruths goes on, and on, and on.

I was waiting for a debate on the provisions of the bill. Unfortunately that has not happened. If it had, I would not have heard it anyways, with all the shouters stopping the questions from being asked, or answered.

There is no evidence that Republicans are serious about health care reform. There is plenty of evidence that they just want to stop the bill and demonize the process and the people who are offering a plan.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Shaw, thought you could use a friendly presence and something to cheer about this morning.

Some more good news (in addition to the advertisers abandoning Glenn Beck), there is a rumor circulating about the Dems using the nuclear option to get the reform through the Senate. Drastic times call for drastic measures. Why not!

Pasquales Points said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Arthurstone said...

Shrug.

An Italian reactionary fan of Glenn Beck.

The world really has shrunk.

TRUTH 101 said...

I'm sure Geico and Wamart are shivering with remorse that a phony Italian guy will not be visiting them for insurance and toilet paper. Could bankruptcy soon be on the horizon for these once mighty companies because Pasquales likes Glenn Beck?

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dear PP,

You apparently have no understanding of what free speech, protected by the First Amendment, is about.

It has nothing to do with boycotting.

The companies who are boycotting Glenn Beck's show have every right to decide where they spend their advertising dollars. And they chose not to spend it on Beck's show.

The rest of your rant is nonsensical. What on earth do you mean by the "republican talking points" and liberals who repeat them?

Normally, I'd delete this type of thoughtless rant, but I'm going to leave it up as an example of the sort of rubbish that gets posted in comments on liberal and conservative blogs.

Pasquales Points said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
(O)CT(O)PUS said...

PP: "You may believe the bias US media, but Obama is not liked in Italy. And while we are on the subject of Europe, do you know who Mary Robinson is?"

It is obvious PP does not like Obama, but equally obvious: PP does not speak for Italy. That is merely PP's assertion, not to be taken a face value.

Point of fact, Obama is quite well liked throughout Europe and has done much to restore America's tarnished image after the disastrous Bush/Cheney years.

Furthermore, since you are presumably not a USA citizen and therefore have no voting rights here, your opinion is irrelevant in addition to dumb.

Pasquales Points said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pasquales Points said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
(O)CT(O)PUS said...

PP, you're even dumber than your first impression. Inasmuch as I am no stranger to Europe, having a permanent Carte de Sejour to live in France, I'll be blunt: "Je m' en fous de ce que tu en penses!"

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dear PP,

This is what you wrote in your first comment here on my blog after reading a REPORT, not an opinion, on advertisers pulling out of Glenn Beck's show:

Liberal's and the Liberal Media are you brain damaged or just plain Stupid. This is America is it not? What has happened to your freedom of speech?


This is the sort of behavior I've come to expect from a number of conservative commenters: You barge onto an obviously Liberal blog and use insulting words, not knowing the basics of the First Amendment right to free speech, and then mirabile dictu! you become all hissy indignant when someone comes and gives you a taste of your own rudeness.

Please spare us your hurt feelings, Signore PP, since you began this discussion by wondering if we Liberals were brain damaged or stupid.


BTW, I am first generation Italian. My parents were born in Italy. I have cugini, zii, and zie living there, as well as a close friend in Milan, with whom I have shared a friendship since we were girls.

According to my relatives and my friend in Milano, Mr. Obama is very popular in Italy.

I also have close friends in France. This family lives just outside Paris and also has a vacation home in Marseille. I speak with these people on a regular basis--they are rabid Red Sox fans. And they report that a majority of the French people adore Mr. Obama.

I'd like to know where you get your polling to back up your claim that Mr. Obama is not popular in Europe.

You may possibly be confusing the present US president, Mr. Obama, with the past US president, Mr. Bush, who was, indisputably, violently disliked by the Europeans.

Perhaps that is the cause of your confusion?

You other sweeping generalizations about liberals "loving" illegal aliens are disingenuous and sound like a Lou Dobbs talking point.

Also Mr. Pasquales Points,

My father was an Italian immigrant and learned to read, speak, and write English here (as did my mother). Your patterns of incorrect English usage more closely resemble the sort of mistakes a native reader, speaker, and writer of American English would make rather than an immigrant. Just an observation.

If you want to come here and address a subject, please do so, but you shouldn't expect anyone to respect you when you start off your discussion with insults.

E' vero?

Julie's Jewels said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Arthurstone said...

Hmmmm.

'...filth ridden blog site'. '...piece of garbage'...

'Jewels' from Julie.

Shaw. Octopus. Keep up the good work.

Pasquale. Thanks for filling me in on Europe's 'dislikes'. You'll be my go-to guy for questions regarding the continent. And thanks for the update on Mary Robinson. A two-fer!

TRUTH 101 said...

You crack me up Julie. You cheer the multitude of comments at Pamela's blog insulting Shaw's blog. Then you come here and are outraged that a guy who I suspect is neither Italian and most likely couldn't find Italy on a map of Italy is berated for his insulting comments.

In keeping with the theme of Shaw's post, I wonder if all the righties demand to see Pasquales' visa before allowing him any medical services here in the USA.

Shaw Kenawe said...

I would normally delete a comment such as the one Julie's Jewels left here for all to see and marvel at, but I'm going to leave it so we can try to understand how some of these agitated minds work.

I'm surprised that Julie even came here, since an edict was given out by some of Julie's blogging pals not to visit my or TRUTH'S blog ever again. And like dutiful little dittoheads, most of them obeyed their overlords and now no longer plague this comment section with their wild rantings, lies, name-calling, and other forms of unusual thinking processes.

Some, however, cannot help themselves; and, as a result, feel an uncontrollable urge to disobey their Commandants and share with us the seepage from the swamps of their mental quagmires. Hence, Julie's dramatic cri de coeur is deposited here for all of us to stare at in wonderment and awe.

Notice how she admits she knows nothing about The Swash Zone, but, again, like a good little dittohead, takes her opinion about it from someone else's delirium.

This may give us insight as to how some of the screamers at the health care town hall meetings get their information as well.

Julie also completely ignores the fact that "the Italian gentleman" came here and opened his comment with two insults about Liberals. This plain and simple fact, nevertheless, did not deter her from expressing her unearned high dudgeon.

I'm assuming she did this because she didn't bother to actually read what "the Italian gentleman" wrote, but rather assumes anything a conservative does is good and everything a liberal does is evil. I believe that is Rush Limbaugh's credo? What a good pupil our Julie is.

Lastly, Julie cannot stop herself from scolding me for something I have not said or done.

It's really an astounding thing to behold: her galloping outrage based on poor reading skills, ignorance, and a tangled thinking processes.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

(Shaw, I'll bet that felt good!)

TRUTH 101 said...

At least Pasquale had the good sense and obedience to delete his comments here Shaw. The right demands obedience. Remember how much crap they gave Jennifer at Conservative Convictions for her daring to ask questions? Heaven forbid the merciless beating any other conservative have to go through for the mere questioning of conservative dogma. The shunning by the wacky righties isn't so bad though.

Julie's Jewels said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jennifer said...

I'm not going to comment regarding the town hall meeting because I feel like I am blue in the face from the never-ending debate. I noticed the bit about Beck and thought I would put my 2 cents in. Just as I felt when David Letterman said his bit, I feel that everyone is responsible for what they say and they all have to face the consequences. I don't care what side of the spectrum you are on, the Constitution gives you your right to say whatever you wish, but will not shield you from the repercussions. I didn't hear the show but I imagine that if you call the president of the U.S. a racist, then you should be prepared for your sponsors to take action. Whether it's Imus, Letterman or Beck, no one is immune to being held responsible for what they say.

And Truth, I remember that all too well! That blog seemed to completely fizzle out. I went there a few times and noticed no new post or comments.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Sorry, Julie,

You don't get to do that. You came to my blog, accused me of things I did not do, insulted The Swash Zone, without having the courtesy of visiting it and discovering if what you accused it of doing was even true, and you supported some guy who initially came here and insulted liberals.

No, Julie, you don't get to take back your insults based on rumor and heresay. I'm tired of people like you whose ignorance is exposed and who then decides that they don't want people to examine it.

No. You don't get to do that.

Here is your post, and you can't delete it:

Julie's Jewels has left a new comment on your post "THE OTHER SIDE WEIGHS IN":

Mr. or Ms. Octopus or whoever or WHATEVER you are! I have never been to you blog, but I have read about how disgusting it is by many of the bloggers at The Oracular Opinion. And after reading what you have said to this Italian gentleman I know why people have said what they do. You are a disgusting piece of garbage and so are the rest of the people that are members of that filth ridden blog site.

And SHAW, don't make any excuses for that piece of garbage and you also should be ashamed of yourself for YOUR behavior regarding this matter.



Posted by Julie's Jewels to Progressive Eruptions at August 19, 2009 11:31 AM

Shaw Kenawe said...

Um, no, Mr. Pasquale Points, you don't get the opportunity to drop your insulting comments here then cowardly delete them either. Wassamadda? Don't you have the courage of your conservative convictions, signore?:

Pasquales Points has left a new comment on your post "THE OTHER SIDE WEIGHS IN":

Liberal's and the Liberal Media are you brain damaged or just plain Stupid. This is America is it not? What has happened to your freedom of speech?
You need to wake the hell up and quit rebroadcasting the republican talking points your receive from these outright willfully ignorant mouthpieces
Glen Beck consistently hosts the most intelligent discussions on what is, irrefutably, the Orwellian direction of this country. He has the courage to investigate things the rest of our flaccid media never so much as mentions. He has made the journalists of this nation look sick, by comparison. While the major media outlets are covering Michael Jackson, ad nauseam, Beck is trying to penetrate the corruption of ACORN.
It is censorship. I will boycott the companies that have dropped him. I didn't see anyone getting upset when Bush was constantly battered. What is the difference??? The difference is the liberals have no guts. They can give it out, but they can't take it!!!!!

And this:

Pasquales Points has left a new comment on your post "THE OTHER SIDE WEIGHS IN":

Arthurstone said...
Shrug.

An Italian reactionary fan of Glenn Beck.
The world really has shrunk.

Do you have a problem with an Italian that is not an Obama fan?
I like the USA. I like Americans, I find that the vast majority of them are polite and very friendly. What I, and most other Europeans dislike is America's foreign policy or I should say Obama's policy.. People do confuse the two though, which I think is a shame.
You may believe the bias US media, but Obama is not liked in Italy. And while we are on the subject of Europe, do you know who Mary Robinson is? She was the former president of Ireland. She also headed up the infamous Durban I conference, which was nothing more than a rabid anti-Israel hatefest. To add insult to injury, Ms. Robinson is a fanatical supporter of fakestinian terrorism. As president of Ireland, Ms. Robinson provided millions of dollars to the PLO. And I don’t know if you know this or not, but Obama gave the US Presidential Medal of Freedom to Mary Robinson.

Pasquales Points has left a new comment on your post "THE OTHER SIDE WEIGHS IN":

(O)CT(O)PUS said..

"Furthermore, since you are presumably not a USA citizen and therefore have no voting rights here, your opinion is irrelevant in addition to dumb.."


Ah ha, so that's it.
And I always thought that liberals LOVED Illegal aliens. Perhaps it's because I am not Illegal and that's why you don't like me. As I do have a visa.


These are the comments left by Signore Pasquales Points, who then, after being exposed as a charlatan, came and tried to delete the evidence.

Coward.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dear 8PUS,

Yes. Yes it did.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Comments observed at Julie's Jewels site: O, the humanity!!!!

bluepitbull said...

Absolutely correct, and that's what I was getting at on Pam's site. That wench calling herself shaw will lie about whats going on, but won't accept my comments to counter her lies and the republican bloggers who she does let comment there are all throwing softballs. It's time to go to war.
August 10, 2009 7:47 AM
LL said...

Great post, Julie - right on target as usual.

Isn't it odd that AARP is behind this healthcare bill? I wonder who paid them off?
August 10, 2009 10:07 AM
(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Captain Fogg is pissed and Octopus agrees.
August 10, 2009 8:42 PM
Julie's Jewels said...

Capt Frogg, I really don't care anything about you or what you have to say.
August 13, 2009 7:15 AM
bluepitbull said...

I see octo is pissed and so is Frogg. Good. Perhaps they will finally see the light.

I see you had a run in over at Shaw's. Why go there? She is a loon and is supported by loons.

Definitely not worth it.
August 19, 2009 11:35 AM
Julie's Jewels said...

You are right Pitt..I won't make that mistake again.
In fact I'm going to delete my comment right now. They don't deserve a comment from me there.
August 19, 2009 2:37 PM
All That's Left said...

but alas, it's back on Shaw's site. I read it and it proves what an ignoramus you really are. Rabid, angry and ignorant. It's amusing. All of you are quite amusing. It always amazes me when I see all you right-wing bloggers who have pictures of themselves on their blogs and they always look normal.... oh well. You can't judge a book by it's cover I guess. Or maybe it's a picture of a normal person so you don't have to post your real picture. That must be it.
August 19, 2009 5:19 PM

Shaw Kenawe said...
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Friend from SoCal said...

shaw, baby! it's amazing how you get to them. i notice that dog/blogger keeps posting about you even though you continue to ignore him. he can't stop his obsession with you. he's got another post up about your amazing rebuttal to that julie nut.

keep up the good work, they're pissed that you're so much smarter than they are.

Julie's Jewels said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julie's Jewels said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shaw Kenawe said...

Julie's Jewels said...

And I stand by everything I said,


And we congratulate you for your tenacity against rational adversity.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Julie's Jewels said...

Shaw, I REALLY think that you need serious help.


Of course you do, Dear. That's a defense mechanism that is to be expected from people in your position.

Thank you for your concern.

Arthurstone said...

Julie-

Drop the shovel. Let it go.

Really.

You're already in way over your head.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Arthurstone said: "Julie - Drop the shovel. Let it go."

Probably good advice to be taken by everyone. Some background: Last week, there was a falling out by certain bloggers from this side and certain bloggers from the other side. My response was to go about my business ... write an article on healthcare reform ... move on.

The other side, however, has been a bit more preoccupied. They have been bashing Shaw and myself and Captain Fogg for almost a week. So what's going on with them?

They can't handle rejection, for one. It seems rejection or abandonment triggers a rage reaction, and then they fall into the trap of "all-or-nothing-thinking." Before the falling out, they understood the continuum of human viewpoints and merely tolerated us. After a rejection, it seems, they consider us as devils. This phenomenon is known as "splitting," a defense mechanism.

Rage is their pastime. I could care less what they say. I am too busy to bother. One minute spent preoccupied with their ravings is a minute of your own life wasted that you never get back.

My Sarcastic Opinion said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Arthurstone said...

How does a regular QWERTY keyboard stand up to eight tentacles pounding away?

I'm curious.

TRUTH 101 said...

Well doggonitt! This should all be a lesson to you on how to adopt the same kind and gentle nature I have. Although being popular and beloved by both sides can be a heavy burden, I feel it is a labor of love towards my fellow bloggers. Peace be with all of you. I hope and pray my good friend Octopus always has a ready supply of ink. I hope and pray my good friend, the unmentionable one here, always has a fresh flea collar. I hope Julie's jewels are always shiny. I hope and pray Shaw is always progressively eruptive. I hope lots of other kind and gentle things for everyone else also.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Arthurstone: How does a regular QWERTY keyboard stand up to eight tentacles pounding away?"

Perhaps the Zen question:
What is the sound of 8 tentacles tapping?

Answer: Silence. I am taking a break this week to get my tentacles waxed.

Arthurstone said...

Ah,,,

A metrocephalod.

I should have guessed.