Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

DOUBLE STANDARD

Wednesday, August 5, 2009

PRESIDENT CLINTON IN NORTH KOREA, Comedian Limbaugh's Take


The Hindenburg of Gasbags gives us his musings on President Clinton's triumph in North Korea:


RUSH: All right, folks. I am going to say what everyone else is thinking and I know that you are thinking it because everybody's thinking it. Did Bill Clinton hit on those two female journalists on the long flight home from North Korea? I mean, how can I say it? I'm not saying he did, but given his past it does cross one's mind. I ran a little test. I asked Snerdley. I said, "Snerdley, when you saw that airplane landing at Burbank this morning, what did you think?" He did not hesitate a split second, "I wonder if Clinton is hitting on those two women." Everybody was wondering. Do you ever wonder why Democrat presidents have to send ex-Democrat presidents to resolve problems like this? And the Norks are saying that Clinton apologized in order to get the two journalists released.


Oh Rush, Rush, Rush. I'm going to say what everyone else is thinking. I mean how can I say it? I'm not saying you do, but given your past it does cross one's mind. I ran a little test. I asked my BFF. I asked "BFF, when you heard what Rush said about President Clinton, what did you think?" My BFF did not hesitate a split second, "I wonder if Rush is still shoving oxycontin, better known as hillbilly heroine, down his prodigious maw." Everyody is wondering. Do you ever wonder how a failed ballroom dancing student, who made his cleaning lady score illegal prescription drugs for him, manages to keep so many people listening to his fetid emanations ?


'Tis passing strange.

61 comments:

Gordon said...

Ahem. You're the one who called him a rock star. Of course he hit on them.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Gordon, I didn't call President Clinton a rock star, the Christian Science Monitor did.

Too many GOPers don't read very carefully and attribute far too many witty and incisive observations to moi.

"Of course he hit on them." says Gordon.

Yes dear. That's nice.

Gordon said...

You're right, I mistook the headline you chose to quote for the title of the post. Of all the sources for a smiliar story. Imagine my embarassment!

As for the rest, it would be like expecting a dog not to piss on a fire hydrant. It's in his nature.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Just as getting high on illegal prescriptions drugs and bouncing around on a dais like a over-inflated beach ball is in Rush's nature.

At least Mr. Clinton is known and respected around the world.

Limbaugh, on the other hand, has his regional nuts with a loser mentality as his fans.

And what are you doing here this time of the night? Shouldn't you be having a margerita and some fabulous smoked ribs?

Gordon said...

As for around the world comment, I think you're half-right, anyway.

Ribs and margaritas...well, just got home from work, actually. No ribs today, but the wife made some chili using pulled pork instead of ground beef, and man, is that good. Dark, smoky complex flavor; it's almost a different dish altogether.

Margaritas I can lust for, but not consume. I get migraines lately from just a sip of alcohol. Imagine spending ten days in Ireland and not being able to have a drink!

Gordon said...

Now if you're looking for a drink, look here.

TRUTH 101 said...

You know Shaw, when I'm in my sixties I hope people think I still have a shot at two young ladies. On a plane. At taxpayer expense.

TAO said...

Of course we want to focus on Clinton...

Its takes the attention off the fact that two Americans are now free and not a shot was fired and in a rather quick and effective way.

Just can't seem to find that 9/11 patriotism that everyone shared and supported GWB with when the shoe is on the other foot...

Then they whine everytime you confuse their patriotism with fascism...

But in closing I am sure that Limbaugh would have offered Clinton a BJ if it had been his fat rear end in a North Korean jail....

Christopher said...

This is a well orchestrated plan to get Bubba the Peace Prize and put Hilliary back out there when Bambi falls in the polls . I will never trust them and know that everything they do is calculated to enhance their image

AZ Patriot said...

All things considered lets take a look at what obowba said, he would sit down with terrorists and negotiate for peace to make the US look friendlier to the world…So that being a given, looks like this could be staged to make it look like the plan is working…It always amazes me how everything comes around full circle….Al Gore’s spies caught tried and convicted, Bill Clinton saves the day, obowba makes it look like his plan is working…..Exactly, that was the plan all along….I don’t trust none of the leaders around the globe….They are all getting part of the stake in it like obowba said in the meeting with nutjob Chavez….Gee they almost convinced me!!!!
If you don’t want to get fucked abroad, don’t go abroad. These 2 women should’ve known this. You need to protect yourself in foreign lands, you can’t rely on your American citizenship to save you. If these girls were from friggin Kenya or Latvia it would be much different because their government’s could not and would not pay for their release.
I am sick literally sick to my stomach ,happy the girls got out ,but I am sure it came with a price we can ill afford to pay
Finally, Kim loves Clinton. Clinton’s the one who gave him the nuclear reactors with which to threaten America with! He gave him the means by which he is a paper tiger.

M. Goldberg said...

Christopher and AZ Patriot,

Is somebody cranking out talking points for you? And are you both so marinated in them that you can’t separate truth from fiction? Or is it that truth has become such a relative term that it no longer makes a difference?

Gordon said...

Geez. "Sources" said that the talks had been going for a while, and different people were proposed to go, including Al Gore. Kim preferred Clinton, so he went. Kim got a staged photo with an ex-president, and we got the hostages released.

We'd all prefer that we didn't have to do little Kabuki dances with leaders like Kim Jong Il, but sometimes you have to.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the two gals never did anything wrong in the first place. The Norks do have a history of darting across borders to cause trouble, and in this case they may well have sneaked across the Chinese border to grab the gals.

Me, Myself, And I said...

If I owned a business, and I subjected 2 of my employees to the kind of danger these 2 girls were subjected to, I would be fined gazillions of dollars.
Yet Al Gore comes out looking like a here!
Hum, what's wrong with this picture?

Shaw Kenawe said...

"Hum, what's wrong with this picture?"

I'm guessing it's your inability to find anything positive or good in anything the current administration does.

It's going to be a long, long, 3 1/2 years for people like you.

Ruth said...

There is no further proof needed that the Rush sort will look for the dirt rather than the flowers, every time.

Me, Myself, And I said...

Shaw Kenawe said...
"I'm guessing it's your inability to find anything positive or good in anything the current administration does."

I'm guessing that you are right!

Right Is Right said...

It's always about Rush with you isn't it Shaw! You have said many times that
"He is merely an entertainer.."
This isn't about Rush Limbaugh, it's about what type of America you want. Do you want a government nanny state who offers up a titty to suckle upon when ever you need nurturing? Then side with Obama and his socialist minions in the senate. If you don't want big government to rule your every step through life and rob you in the process then you better start speaking out, because if you don't these socialist Nazis are gonna completely destroy this country and turn it into the first undeveloped nation in the world.
I am with Rush because he only has the power to entertain us, whereas Obama has the power to ruin us. And it looks like he is well on his way. But that is okay because the more damage he does, the easier it will be in the mid term elections to clean house, as the label of Democrat will be synonymous with failure, just as it always has been.

Right Is Right said...

Shaw Kenawe said...

"Hum, what's wrong with this picture?"

I'm guessing it's your inability to find anything positive or good in anything the current administration does.

It's going to be a long, long, 3 1/2 years for people like you.



And that's where and when this nightmare will end.

Italiano's Thoughts said...

Will the "Bent One" be in line for a Pulitzer prize?
Laura Ling and Euna Lee, journalists working for former Vice President Al Gore's Current TV, were arrested near China's border with North Korea on March 17. The two were quickly convicted of illegal entry and "hostile acts" and sentenced to 12 years of hard labor.
Bill Clinton's surprise visit to North Korea wasn't likely planned without the White House, Clinton's former NATO ambassador told The Hill on Tuesday. Clinton landed in Pyongyang on Tuesday and promptly met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il, according to the state-run media in the tightly controlled communist nation. His visit was billed as an effort to gain the release of two journalists, but as everyone knows this release was already pre-arranged. This was already a done deal before Clinton even got there.
The real question should be...WHAT DID THIS MESS REALLY COST US?

dmarks said...

M. Goldberg: Good point. I'm having trouble figuring out the code-word names both of them use.

Also, as Obama has admitted to an illegal drug abuse problem [Huffington Post] in the past, it's kind of odd to see Limbaugh bashed for it here.

Tracy Carman said...

Yo, It's Obama's evil agenda that is the villain. He wants to control EVERYTHING you can get your hands around. Its not the insurance companies who are fighting you, you asshat. Its ME and RUSH and every other American who cares a damn about the individual freedoms that God gave us and the Constitution guarantees and YOU, and the rest of your political cronies are trying to take away.

There is NOTHING more EVIL than a politician who tries to pretend to act in the best interests of freedom and liberty while working daily to take all those freedoms away.

There is NOTHING more IMMORAL than a politician who tries to pretend to act in the best interests of freedom and liberty while working daily to take all those freedoms away.

Hulksmash said...

How about this. Any convicted criminal sentenced to more than 15 years in jail be offered the oprion of assisted suicide. If the convict consents, he goes to the prison infirmary, is prepared for surgery, has any viable organs removed and then they just turn off the heart pump. Results are spare organs from probably a healthy donor, no long costly imprisonment and the convict avoids a long and just punishment.

Now of course if this was actually proposed, there would be a line of protestors longer than that outside a Western Union Office in an El Barrio neighborhood on Friday night. And I would have to agree with the protestors, we are not barbarians. We respect life. The prisoner's rights would be held sacred and protected.

Wouldn't it be nice if senior citizens, people who worked all their lives could have advocates like that available. Wouldn't it be great that they could be secure in knowing that the right they have earned, to live out the rest of their lives as comfortably as modern medicine would allow and not have to keep an eye on the calender knowing that rationed health care would cut out and leave them defenseless to the ravages of age and disease when they were deemed to be "Too old."

JohnC said...

Dmarks wrote: "Also, as Obama has admitted to an illegal drug abuse problem [Huffington Post] in the past, it's kind of odd to see Limbaugh bashed for it here."

Smoking pot a few times does not make an "abuse problem" as you state. Though that was a nice attempt to try to compare Obama with a true drug addict in Rush

Kim said...

Shaw is still complaining about Rush Limbaugh

Soldiers dying in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Unemployment sky-rocketing.

Higher taxes and socialism around the corner.

Inflation and loss of savings.

Families disintegrating.

Murders by gangs, illegal aliens, jihadists, homicidal maniacs.

Our Health Care is in disarray.

But America is still hell bent on idealizing Michael Jackson Syndrome -- While Rome Burns

And here's Whoopi Goldberg, one of the official spokespersons for the idio-cracy on the Left, It's all about you, Whoopi!
How many ways can we say "circus" here?

What does the fact that so many thousands, nay, millions of people, identify with a sad, sick, abused and child-abusing wreck of a human being? True, he had great musical talent. So what, who the hell cares?

What are we coming to that morality is just a footnote to a person's life and not the central feature of ones character?

A bunch of soft-Nietzschean idiots, that's what.

God bless America! We need it.

And Shaw is still complaining about Rush Limbaugh... LMAO..

Arthurstone said...

Hulksmash wiped a tear from its eye and typed:

'Wouldn't it be nice if senior citizens, people who worked all their lives could have advocates like that available. Wouldn't it be great that they could be secure in knowing that the right they have earned, to live out the rest of their lives as comfortably as modern medicine would allow and not have to keep an eye on the calender knowing that rationed health care would cut out and leave them defenseless to the ravages of age and disease when they were deemed to be "Too old.'

Well it would be nice Mr. Smash. Sadly the oldsters have outlived their utility and we need to phase them out. I'm headed over to the Sisters of Providence Mt. St. Vincent Nursing Home this very morning to break the news to my father. My guess is we'll set him in his wheelchair out on the curb and wait.

Que sera.

Bye the bye...

Does it feel good to perpetuate such lies as you wrote?

Just wondering.

JohnC said...

Kim,

Rush get smacked here because he takes good news and spews his verbal feces all over it. In his childish mind the left can do no right and the right can do no wrong. He appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Tom said...

Red Sox-Yankee series this weekend. GO SOX!

Thank you President Clinton!

Sorry you had to soil yourself meeting with that "dirt bag" but the deal was only good, if you went.

These ladies would still be there, if you had not gone.

Drives Rush crazy when a Clinton does a good deed.

dmarks said...

Kim said: "Murders by gangs, illegal aliens, jihadists, homicidal maniacs."

Native-born Americans commit most of the crime in America, not illegal aliens. If you want to take care of the crime problem, and must deport someone, why not them?

dmarks said...

JohnC: "Smoking pot a few times does not make an "abuse problem" as you state."

So he abused drugs a "few times". Do you have any idea how much he did? Probably not. So you have no idea what you are saying.


"Though that was a nice attempt to try to compare Obama with a true drug addict in Rush"

Both of them were formerly drug criminals, and as far as we know, neither does it anymore. Both were really stupid to abuse drugs.

JohnC said...

Dmarks: you're not fooling anyone when you swap abuse with use. You have no idea what YOU are saying. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Obama was a drug "abuser" as you state. There is a mound of evidence against Rush as a true abuser so comparing the two is both reckless and futile.

I think you lost everyone when you threw Obama into the "drug criminal" group. Was Obama incarcerated for his use? When you find the police record please forward it for all to see. Or perhaps there is a "conspiracy" to hide his police record...I'm sure a fringe group would run with that and call themselves the "Policers"

Shaw Kenawe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shaw Kenawe said...

Kim,

I'm not "complaining" about Rush--I'm making fun of the hypocrite. He piled on about Clinton's past bad behavior, and I did the same over his past bad behavior with chronic illegal prescription drug use.

Also, Kim, this is my blog. If you don't like what I choose to write about, I suggest you not visit here and complain.

dmarks,

JohnC is right. Most young people experiment with drugs, as Mr. Obama admitted he did--and Mr. Obama made the choice NOT to continue to use them.

Limbaugh, a grown man, in his what? 40s? 50s?, was having his housekeeper score illegal prescription drugs. He wasn't a young man experimenting.

But the reason we bring it up is because of Limbaugh's mammoth hypocrisy. It was he who called Curt Cobain a "worthless shred of human debris" when he died of a drug overdose--while at the time Limbaugh was shoving gross amounts of illegal drugs down his fat gullet.

And you've really jumped the shark with your foolish statement that Mr. Obama is a drug criminal. It is a fact that Limbaugh was the subject of a criminal probe, but was not charged.)

Please tell us all exactly when President Obama was charged (or the subject of a criminal probe) with a crime?

Can you and others who use lies and over-the-top accusations please get on some medications yourselves?

This just is foolishness.

Arthurstone said...

The thing that's so interesting about Limbaugh is his manifestation of the main-streaming of a nativist, sexist, racist thread we'd hoped was dead and buried. In the late 60's early 70's I used to have to go to the American Opinion bookstore and rustle up a couple of John Birchers to hear the sort of mewling Rush earns millions providing.

So thanks, Shaw, for keeping this guy front and center. He is not a nice person and he doesn't say nice things. He has a too large audience and it's good to learn what the whine du jour is.

Luckily his core demographic is shrinking. He will retire rich, fat and happy. But Rush and his ilk are running out of time.

The world is changing and they can't stop it.

truthtopower1, said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ciao Baby said...

Rush was on a roll today.. he got things rolling this afternoon by saying he is happy, honored, and proud to be considered the "Mobfather," the leader of the unruly mobs protesting the health care town halls. It might be helpful to keep a list of all the things these mobs are, said Rush -- right-wing extremists, unruly members of the mob, people who dress too nicely, idiot shills for big insurance, people who are trying to destroy Obama, people who do not like change and want the status quo.

Rush then told us that he isn't an economist, but something with this Associated Press article doesn't make sense. The AP reported: "The number of newly laid-off workers seeking unemployment benefits fell last week, the government said Thursday, a sign that the job market is making gradual improvement. Over half a million people lost their jobs, said Rush, and this is being portrayed as good news. Rush, however, zeroed in on this sentence -- "The number of people continuing to claim benefits rose, however, by 69,000 to 6.3 million, after having dropped for three straight weeks -- evidence that job openings remain scarce and the unemployed are having difficulty finding new work" -- to claim that jobless claims were actually higher than the previous week, because you have to add those existing claims to the new claims. Because in Rush's mind, apparently, new jobless claims and existing jobless claims are the same thing. Remember, folks, he told you he's not an economist, so you should trust him on that.

Rush then aired audio of Nancy Pelosi saying that the people protesting the health care town halls are Astroturf, and have been wearing swastikas. She is the Speaker of the House, said Rush, she's very powerful, and now she's running around claiming that we're Nazis! Rush said: "The Speaker of the House accusing people showing up at these town hall meetings of wearing swastikas -- that is not insignificant, folks. That is -- this woman is deranged. They're unraveling, but that is not insignificant. You have the Democrat Speaker of the House saying that people, citizens who are concerned about health care are now wearing swastikas. She's basically saying that we are Nazis." We're going to point out here that Pelosi is right. The teabagger protests at he town hall meetings have been steeped in Nazi imagery, including SS symbols and comparisons of Obama to Hitler and Mengele. But nonetheless, Rush proclaimed this outrageous, and promised to enumerate later on the various ways in which the Democratic Party bears much more resemblance to Nazis than anything the Republicans have ever done. That should be special, and we can't wait for that.
Pelosi said that the Town Hall Protesters Are "Carrying Swastikas" Yeah right, I guess she was wearing her Tin hat. This party hack is by far the dumbest person to have ever served in the House! She fails to realize that those protestants represent what the majority of Americans (the tax paying ones!) are thinking!
Wait. Didn't The Nazi's had a government run health care system. So whose side is she exactly on?

dmarks said...

Truth: Pelosi is invoking Godwin's Law while in Congress.

Shaw said: "JohnC is right. Most young people experiment with drugs, as Mr. Obama admitted he did--and Mr. Obama made the choice NOT to continue to use them."

If Limbaugh no longer abuses drugs, that makes him pretty much the same as Obama. Other than Obama making stupid drug abuse mistakes at a much younger age than Limbaugh.

"nd you've really jumped the shark with your foolish statement that Mr. Obama is a drug criminal"

"Inhaling" marijuana is a crime. A misdemeanor that might have also involved felonies at the time he did it (depending on how he purchased it, or if he sold it to others). Illinois, Massachusetts, etc (states where he spent these years) are states where such drug abuse is indeed a crime. He admitted the crime himself.

"Can you and others who use lies and over-the-top accusations please get on some medications yourselves?"

Obama admitted drug abuse crimes, and it is well documented. If there is a lie on this, then it is from Obama. Perhaps the problem is that I have taken him at his word.

It is not a "lie" or an "over the top accosation" to refer to Obama's own statement admitting criminal/illegal drug abuse.

The biggest distortion here is to claim that marijuana abuse was not a crime in the place and time where Obama was stupid enough to do it.

dmarks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gordon said...

It's also worth pointing out, DMarks, that Limbaugh's drug abuse arose out of legitimate treatment for pain. There's an awful lot of folks who started taking meds for pain and wound up hooked on them. Naturally, if it was anyone but Limbaugh, our hostess and her guests would be sympathetic, instead of mocking.

With Kurt Cobain, he shot himself and his girlfriend up with heroin voluntarily and eagerly. His drug abuse was entirely a matter of choice.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Excuse me. You cannot call someone a criminal, as you did, when that person has not been charged or found guilty of a crime. No matter how hard you try to twist this, dmarks.

You've just expressed your shock at Pelosi's characterizing the thugs at town hall meetings as Nazi, haven't you? Why?

[Even though their behavior is exactly the same as the brown shirts who employed the same strong-armed tactics in the 1930s.]

Yet you just called the president a criminal without justification.

Here's the definition:

noun. One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.

noun 6. a person guilty or convicted of a crime.

(n.) One who has commited a crime; especially, one who is found guilty by verdict, confession, or proof; a malefactor; a felon.

Typical.

Shaw Kenawe said...

"It's also worth pointing out, DMarks, that Limbaugh's drug abuse arose out of legitimate treatment for pain. There's an awful lot of folks who started taking meds for pain and wound up hooked on them. Naturally, if it was anyone but Limbaugh, our hostess and her guests would be sympathetic, instead of mocking."

Yes, the overfed clown is to be pitied with all the sympathy we can scrape off the soles of our shoes [just like he pitied Cobain, Michael J. Fox and other victims of his inhumane wordslop] for being a poor victim who had no choice but to use oxycontin,--and have his housekeeper score for him, instead of manfully scoring it himself.

I went through an excruciating surgery and recovery [5 months] not long ago. I'm not as big as Mr. Limbaugh, yet I managed to get through it without having my "housekeeper" do drug runs for me.

It can be done.

dmarks said...

Shaw: "Excuse me. You cannot call someone a criminal, as you did, when that person has not been charged or found guilty of a crime. No matter how hard you try to twist this, dmarks."

It is fair to call someone a criminal if there is overwhelming evidence that they committed a crime, or they admitted it. You are the one "Twisting" it. Also, using your standard, Limbaugh did no crime either.

The fact is, no matter how you twist it, that Obama did something that is considered a drug abuse or felony in the states he spent his "youth" in. What he did was always illegal (i.e. a crime) in these states.

"Yet you just called the president a criminal without justification."

He admitted committing a crime when younger. Since a criminal is one who commits a crime, there is justification. Plenty of it.

Unless, of course. Obama himself was lying when he claimed he committed substance abuse crimes.

Thanks for the definition you posted:

"(n.) One who has commited a crime; especially, one who is found guilty by verdict, confession, or proof; a malefactor; a felon."

He sure fits. Since he confessed to something that was always considered a crime in all of the states Obama lived in.

The Pelosi thing is a nonsequitur. Unless you have evidence of the "thugs" admitting having been in the Nazi party at any time. That would make it similar to the fact of Obama having admitted drug crimes.

Can you argue that Obama's crimes are less than Limbaugh's and those of others? Sure, of course you can. I will agree. However, I will not buy your idea that Obama's past commission of actions which are explicit crimes in the United States were not criminal at all.

dmarks said...

Sure, Shaw. You can argue that former (?) drug criminal Rush Limbaugh is a worse than former (?) drug criminal Barack Obama. But you can't undo the fact that Obama did indeed say he did something which was criminal at that time and place.

Shaw Kenawe said...

dmarks,

The reality is that the term criminal is reserved for those who either commit a crime of significant proportions, or those who make a lifestyle out of crime. To grasp the true meaning of criminal, several criteria need to be examined.

Under the idea of “innocent until proved guilty,” successful prosecution is necessary to establish the title of criminal.
Legally, a person cannot be a criminal if they have not been convicted of a crime. Society and the media may use a lower standard than this.



I suggest you read this.

James' Muse said...

Shaw, in all fairness, by your first definition Obama did commit a crime. One who commits a crime is a criminal, even if not caught. It is in the commission of a crime that makes it a crime; not being caught. Career criminals continue to commit crimes.

Also, by your definition, Rush Limbaugh isn't a criminal, either. He was never convicted. Charges were dropped.

Felixcat said...

Anyone who has lived in countries where socialized medicine exists as I have in the late sixties in Holland and Germany will tell you that it is a disaster. As Americans working for Bechtel which was building the gas pipe-line from Northern Holland through Germany we paid for our own health care which was so bad that I brought my sons home for check-ups.

And, this latest ploy to scare by having our e-mails critical of health-care sent to Washington reminds me of Saddam's using children to report on their parents. I'm wondering if those who protest at town-halls this month will have their names taken and reported to the White House

Arthurstone said...

Interesting.

My wife lived in Berlin during the 1990's and still raves about the high quality medical/dental/vision care she received. Her current US dentist remarks over and again at the quality of the German work.

Likewise I have a friend who returned to the Netherlands last year for a knee replacement. A fraction of the cost stateside and a couple of weeks in Amsterdam as a bonus.

I think you're making s**t up Felix.

Gordon said...

Germany is a different case. Workers are taxed on their wages (15.7%) to pay for the public system. They can opt out by having private insurance; apparently there are public and private systems side by side. My blog host Crian wrote about it here; read the comments too.

But while Germans used to be happy with their healthcare, things are changing. A recent poll shows growing unhappiness, and healthcare workers in the public system are looking to get out and into the private system.

This may be because Germany has a big structural problem; the country is aging rapidly, and not producing enough children. A welfare state requires a growing population to provide for retirees, and Germany's population is starting to shrink instead.

Shaw Kenawe said...

James,

Legally, neither President Obama nor Gasbag are criminals, since neither were charged or convicted.

you didn't go to the link where it says LEGALLY you have to be convicted of a crime to be called a criminal. The media and others have a lower standard--but that doesn't make it acceptable.

Arthurstone said...

The other problem is US-styled 'free-market' capitalism has swept through Europe. And the results speak for themselves.

Interestingly enough much of Latin America, through the not so gentle prodding of it's big neighbor to the north, had it's time with laissez-faire and is emerging from that disaster with a Western European Social Democrat model.

There's hope after all.

dmarks said...

Shaw said: "Legally, neither President Obama nor Gasbag are criminals, since neither were charged or convicted..... The media and others have a lower standard [in the use of the word "criminal"] but that doesn't make it acceptable.

So, who has a low standard here?

Let's look at your own statements in your own blog:

Bush is a "wiley criminal". (Friday, January 25, 2008)

"Bush is a criminal far worse than Clinton." (Tuesday, March 11, 2008)

------------

This for a man who was neither charged nor convicted, as well. You used to play fast and loose with the "criminal" word. From your recent comments, is this no longer true? Was the use of the "criminal" word for President George W. Bush a mistake?

dmarks said...

Arthur: The situation you mention in Latin America is actually backsliding toward fascism. Latin America is seeing a new wave of socialist dictators, undoing the progress of democracy and economic liberty.

James' Muse said...

Shaw, I did click on the link. Legality and absolutism are two different things. If you commit a crime, you are a criminal, even though you may not legally be so.

Example: If you murder someone, you are a murderer. Legally, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The operative word here is presumed. Doesn't absolve guilt you have as a murderer; you merely cannot be punished for it legally.

So, if you commit a crime, as both Rush and Obama have confessed to, you are a criminal, or you at least were a criminal.

But aren't we all.

Shaw Kenawe said...

dmarks wrote: Let's look at your own statements in your own blog:

Bush is a "wiley criminal". (Friday, January 25, 2008)


I didn't write that. That was part of an article in Harpers by Scott Horton.


dmarks, "Bush is a criminal far worse than Clinton." (Tuesday, March 11, 2008)

I did write that. And I shouldn't have. Wrong. But by your and other's definition, I can get away with it, since starting a pre-emptive war with a country that did not threaten us with real and present danger is illegal. Committing an illegal act is a crime, therefore the person responsible is a criminal.

Gordon said...

Well, hey, let's go all the way here! Since President Obama, as a senator, voted to fund that war, he's a criminal also. And now that he's in charge, he's continued the war, so he's in the dock for that also. And by expanding the fight in Afghanistan, he's clearly demonstrating a habitual criminal intent.

He's a one-man crime wave!

dmarks said...

Shaw said: "since starting a pre-emptive war with a country that did not threaten us with real and present danger is illegal"

That sentence, of course, does not apply to the retaliation against the terrorists in Iraq. Since Saddam's regime attacked us first with clear military violations of the cease-fire.

The idea that Saddam never had any WMD, never had anything to do with terrorism, and was peaceful until the US attacked in 2003 is a big load of revisionism.

Prior to 2001, Bin Laden was a terrorist lesder who kept attacking us, and we did not take him seriously. Saddam was also a terrorist leader who kept attacking us. After 2001, we decided to take him seriously. We did not want to make the same mistake again.

If Bush had NOT led the fight against the terrorists in Iraq, perhaps he would have been guilty of criminal negligence of his duty as President.

I'm sorry I mis-attributed one of those quotations to you.

Gordon: So is our Secretary of State. She even voted to authorize the major retaliation effort in 2003. The same applies to Obama's Vice President choice. Joe Biden, a Senate leader on foreign policy, voted in 2003 to retalite against Saddam Hussein. In lockstep with Bush also.

Great point about Obama being a "criminal" in relation to Shaw's Iraq example because of his past actions in support of the military effort, and his having led the operation for 6 months so far.

Arthurstone said...

dmarks repeated the same, discredited tired old saw for the umpteenth time:

'The idea that Saddam never had any WMD, never had anything to do with terrorism, and was peaceful until the US attacked in 2003 is a big load of revisionism.'


There were no WMDs prior to the invasion. None were found at the time of the invasion. None have been discovered since.

Facts.

An old American trick actually. Doctoring the 'threat' that is. Used in Cuba 1898. Vietnam (Gulf of Tonkin) 1964. Philippines 1900. etc. Etc.

An endless list of poorly justified American Imperialist actions.

And yet we still wonder why so much of the world doesn't love us as dearly as we do our precious selves.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Thank you, Arthurstone, for speaking truth to fantasy.

dmarks said...

Arthur spoke fantasy: "There were no WMDs prior to the invasion. None were found at the time of the invasion. None have been discovered since."

After the invasion, the Pentagon claimed to have found 500 WMD that Saddam Hussein had stockpiled. "FactCheck" lists the total at about 50. Just one of these puts the lie to "there were no WMD".

These were WMD warheads from the first Gulf War. Saddam Hussein was supposed to have none of these, according to the cease-fire agreement. And Saddam Hussein apologists kept saying there were none. Yet, it turns out he had large numbers of them, in fact.

Arthurstone said...

Yawn.

Nothing deliverable. No mushroom cloud. No toxic cloud sweeping the front.

Rusting barrels of insecticide buried in the ground are what we're speaking of.

Sorry dmarks that dog so won't hunt.

You have to go back to 'liberate the Iraqi people from a tyrant', further down the list of reasons to invade before you find anything with the slightest degree of veracity.

Cheers!

dmarks said...

"Nothing deliverable. No mushroom cloud. No toxic cloud sweeping the front."

Yes, they are all secured now. And according to the cease-fire agreements, they were all supposed to have been secured a decade before.

"Rusting barrels of insecticide buried in the ground are what we're speaking of."

Actually, we're speaking of actual WMD as defined by the UN and everyone else involved. The same class of weapons used against the insects... er Kurds before.

So, we have between 50 and 500 definite WMD found. The dog hunts, for sure. A material violation of cease-fire requirements with compete veracity.

Even Al Gore knew it. He said:

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

As for the harmless "insecticide", imagine if one were cracked open in the air over your neighborhood. An airburst of some kind. The lie that this WMD was not a WMD would quickly evaporate.

dmarks said...

(This reminds me of a previous discussion where Arthur said that Saddam had nothing to do with terrorism. I put this one to rest with State Dept documents from the Clinton years (and after) which listed and detailed the many groups that Saddam Hussein funded and hosted and otherwise encouraged.

All of this was an aggressive activity by Saddam Hussein, and a major cease-fire violation. Clinton let it slide (a mistake). Bush also let it slide prior to 2009/09/11 (a mistake also).