"There's a visceral loathing between two halves of the country. This mutual hatred and disdain might not have spilt over into another civil war, but there is once again a very obvious civil stand-off in which one half of the country looks on the other with absolute contempt."
Sound familiar? Is it the US? No. This was written by Tobias Jones, British author writing in "The Dark Heart of Italy, An Incisive Portrait of Europe's Most Beaautiful, Most Disconcerting Country." pg 241 --Published in 2003 by North Point Press, a division of Farrar, Straus and Giroux, New York.
And the following was written by Italian journalist Angelo Panebianco, for the newspaper "Corriere della Sera, in January 2002.
"[There is] a type of 'battle between civilisations.' On one side are those who retain that the current government is a sort of infection, a repository of wickedness and illegality, and on the other are those for whom that same infection can be seen in the relationship between the political left and the magistrature. The division between the two is radical. It's a division about values and principles which cancels any possibility of communication and compromise."
Are we Americans going to go down the path that Italy has chosen for herself?
I believe we are halfway there. I also believe what Abraham Lincoln said when he paraphrased the New Testament: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
From Matthew 12:25, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand."
As I said, I believe we’re halfway there--unless we have the will and the courage to change.
Today is the anniversary of Lincoln’s birth date, 201 years ago. Let’s remember what he and 600,000 Americans sacrificed to keep this country together.
45 comments:
Wow that was very powerful.
That's why the morons have to stop believing people like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh.
What's really disturbing, Toad734, is what I read today over at a conservative's blog.
This guy, who visits here quite often, put up a post that criticizes and mocks Michelle Obama's talk on childhood obesity.
He claims, without evidence, that she says it's more dangerous than terrorism. She doesn't say that at all.
Then there is the implication that the government will mandate good eating habits--nothing of the sort is in her speech. Nothing.
Mrs. Obama's speech is about calling attention to a very real health problem for America's children.
But partisanship is so rancid, that the blogger had to find something, anything, even if it wasn't there, to demean her speech.
This is what poisons this country.
Mrs. Obama's talk on encouraging America's children to become more active and eat more healthy food is no more government interference than was Laura Bush's encouraging America's children to read more.
Truth, facts, none of those things matter--just scoring political points--even is they're lies.
This doesn't help America.
Shaw,
The essence of the struggle was outlined by former Johns Hopkins president Frank Johnson Goodnow in a publication entitled The American Conception of Liberty he wrote in 1916. In it he challenges America's belief in natural rights, saying that it is ahistorical. He said that man in Europe had derived their rights from laws and that if they are God given, natural rights, they could not be taken away.
Goodnow argued that individual rights should be subordinate to "societal good" (of course a good that he and those thinking like him would decide). He and specifically Woodrow Wilson advanced the notion of an administrative state run by experts and impervious to the whims of the electorate. Of course, Wilson used this and the notion he created of a "living" Constitution, to abuse political opponents and those that didn't think like he did. Wilson was America's first fascist but I digress.
The friction in America and throughout the world is the struggle between those who understand "the blessings of liberty" and those who think they know better than the rest of us.
CB opined:
'Wilson was America's first fascist but I digress.'
I vote for Andrew Jackson. Home-grown fascism is as American as apple pie.
Actually, more so.
The Emancipator
Yes SK, let's not forget history.
Shaw: The irony is that childhood obesity is more dangerous than terrorism. So are automobiles, fast food, guns, and influenza. We have been frightened out of our wits by politicians and the media over something which is a relatively minor risk.
Uneducated people tell lies and spread fear because they don't know the facts and they don't want to know them.
Father Coughlin, McCarthy, Wallace, etc., did their part to stir up fear and hate. The country survived then and I'm confident it will now - not without some rocky times maybe.
This post just shows your ignorance when you generalize and lump all western women into one category. There are plenty of American women who show the utmost respect to their men and vice versa. Don't be bitter that you didn't like yourself enough to get one of the good ones. Plenty of American women cook every day-Healthy meals-and don't need to diet because they exercise right along with their man. But it's okay, I doubt any American woman would want you anyway. You sound like a dolt.
when you realize you are not the center of the universe, you get resentful.
I won't be turned against God's children but teach them to accept others so that guidance and growth have the greatest potential to happen. I will however stop people like you and Truth101 and that Hari krishna nut I won't be turned against God's children but teach them to accept others so that guidance and growth have the greatest potential to happen. I will however stop people like you and Truth101 and that I won't be turned against God's children but teach them to accept others so that guidance and growth have the greatest potential to happen. I will however stop people like you and Scott who attempt to make others feel inadequate because they don't believe exactly like you two do. I won't waste this life and all of its lessons that God has offered, waiting for the next life. Encouraging the division of God's children is awful and more like the devil to mess with God's creation who attempt to make others feel inadequate because they don't believe exactly like you two do.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous said...
This post just shows your ignorance when you generalize and lump all western women into one category...
Anonymous,
Did someone put drugs in your corn flakes this morning? Because your post indicates that you're out of your mind.
Shaw,
Sometimes it's embarrassing to admit that I'm the same religion as "Anonymous".
Other times it's embarrassing to admit to being part of the same species.
Keep up the great work.
I had the same feelings when I visited the "Lincoln In New York" exhibit at the New York Historical Society back in December. It was a fascinating glimpse at the country right before the outbreak of civil war and the parallels to this modern age were shocking.
While there *are* geographic divisions today, I wonder if they are as stark as they were in the 1850s?
Oso,
How do you know that you and Anon share the same religion?
Hi Tao,
I was assuming Anonymous was Christian by some references to God. So just engaging in speculation, kinda like with the species part as well.
Hmmmmmm by viewing your feedjit Shaw I would not be surprised if anon was "Joe, the rude one". Afterall he does claim to be a christian, but I believe he is a wolf in sheeps clothing... just sayin'
Shaw Kenawe said...
What's really disturbing, Toad734, is what I read today over at a conservative's blog.
This guy, who visits here quite often, put up a post that criticizes and mocks Michelle Obama's talk on childhood obesity.
He claims, without evidence, that she says it's more dangerous than terrorism. She doesn't say that at all.
But the point is that she did say it's the most important and the most dangerous thing facing our nation today.
And that too me means it's more dangerous than Terrorism.
Face it Shaw, that is exactly what she said.
It is a testament to the backward thinking, closed mindedness of the right that they would attack Michelle Obama for caring about the health of our children.
There are more problems facing our Country than just terrorism. I for one thank God that we have a president who is capable of dealing with more than one thing at a time. And I thank God Mrs. Obama is willing to help fight these problems despite idiots that attack her for working on worthy goals that would make America better.
Agreed, TRUTH. God Bless the Obamas.
[PS. Bush left this country in a horrible mess and the Republicans are determinbed to keep it that way by obstructing everything Obama needs to do to right it.]
Anonymous said...
Agreed, TRUTH. God Bless the Obamas.
[PS. Bush left this country in a horrible mess and the Republicans are determinbed to keep it that way by obstructing everything Obama needs to do to right it.]
Well I guess that you also thing that Fat kids are as important as our safety from the terrorists.
Good for you, another sicko!
I don't think M. Obama meant that the danger was to national security but to health on a personal level.
I can remember the Kennedy push in the early 60's for fitness as well. We kids sure had to do a lot of pushups and calisthenics and stuff. Not that I minded since I lived on a working farm and got plenty of exercise in the first place. But still there were those that had a weight problem even then.
IMO we as a society have become more sedate with all our technologies doing more and more of the heavy lifting. On an individual level we have become more self centered in that we put our butts in front of the TV, the computer, the gameboy, PSP, Nintendo gamer machine and so forth. It used to be a red letter day when you got your first bicycle. Kids today just need to get out and play. And that means parents have to get out and supervise. I'll hold my breath.
Anonymous @9:41 am Feb. 14 typed:
But the point is that she did say it's the most important and the most dangerous thing facing our nation today.
And that too me means it's more dangerous than Terrorism.
Face it Shaw, that is exactly what she said.
February 14, 2010 9:41 AM
No. THAT'S A LIE. She said NOTHING of the sort. You and the blogger who wrote about this deliberately lie and misrepresent what the FLOTUS said. You're making this into some sort of political issue. It isn't. But that's what this post is about: the divide that makes one side see everything and anything this administration does as EVIL or a threat to their "freedoms." This is what the FLOTUS actually said--and it belies what the conservative poster said:
"We're here today because we care deeply about the health and well-being of these kids and kids like them all across the country. And we're determined to finally take on one of the most serious threats to their future: the epidemic of childhood obesity in America today - an issue that's of great concern to me not just as a First Lady, but as a mom."
"...one of the most serious threats TO THEIR future..."
SHE DID NOT SAY AMERICA'S FUTURE.
And she said this:
"Military leaders report that obesity is now one of the most common disqualifiers for military service." .
This serious threat to America's CHILDREN is also a threat, according to the military to keeping America safe--if we have to disqualify young people because of obesity, our military is affected negatively.
And she said this:
"This isn't about politics. There's nothing Democratic or Republican, liberal or conservative, about doing what's best for our kids." .
It appears that certain bloggers have taken up the mantle of lying and misrepresentation, just like their heroes, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and Palin.
All any sane person needs to do is actually READ Mrs. Obama's actual words to understand the dishonesty coming from the other side in order to make cheap corrupt points against Mrs. Obama.
Source
The bloggeer who lied about what Mrs. Obama said made this into a political issue and contributed, once again, to keeping this country divided--even on a subject that concerns us all--our children and their health.
Anonymous @ 11:14 typed:
Well I guess that you also thing that Fat kids are as important as our safety from the terrorists.
Good for you, another sicko!
No, Anonymous, nothing of the kind was said. You're either drunk or on some sort of mind altering medication--OR A TYPICAL TROLL LIAR, because Mrs. Obama never, never said childhood obesity is more dangerous than terrorism.
That is what YOU said. And it is a blatant and weasely lie.
"[PS. Bush left this country in a horrible mess and the Republicans are determined to keep it that way by obstructing everything Obama needs to do to right it.]"
He sure needs to be obstructed when he tries things that will make it worse. And the mess? He helped cause it too as a Senator.
As a senator who had one of the most liberal voting records in the senate, I doubt that he agreed with many of the issues put forth by Mr. Bush for Congress to vote on.
By the time Mr. Obama was sworn into the Senate, most of Mr. Bush's damage to this country had been done.
See Medicare Part D, not funding the two wars, and giving tax cuts to the upper 1% of this country while we were fighting two wars--unprecedented in this country's history, just to name a few budget busters incurred by GWB's administration.
Those translated into billions of dollars.
And the no strings attached bailout? Senator Obama signed that too.
The tax cut, by the way, was for all taxpayers. As for continuing overtaxation during the wars, remember that the enemy was the terrorists in the Middle East, not the American public. No need to wage war against the American public with overhigh greedy taxes.
'Overtaxation during the wars'
Oh brother.
The 'war on terror' has been fought on the nations credit card since day one.
Of course if the government couldn't risk a military draft and raised taxes to cover the expenses of empire our occupation of Iraq & Afghanistan. Americans would possibly object. Thus the fiction of the 'volunteer' armed forces exists and will continue until we enact compulsory national service.
The good news is Karzai announced Afghanistan will be able to provide its own security somewhere around 2024.
What a surprise.
I'm in my mid-50's and American troops will be in both countries long after I'm gone.
Arthur said: "...to cover the expenses of empire..."
There is no empire, outside of the imagination of Noam Chomsky.
And it swung way back to the other side, with a comment from someone who basically claims that President Obama is a Soviet-era Communist. That's the far side, really.
dmarks,
I believe you're talking semantics regarding empire. Of course we don't have an emperor-but the US exercises imperial rule over conquered territory and has since it's inception. Manifest Destiny is one word for it.
Outside the continental US we have hundreds of military bases. We've progressed past the days of the British Raj and now use economic policy to exercise hegemony.
Oso: Of course, there is/was empire, when you refer to the march to the West Coast...in the 19th century. However, modern "hegemony" is but a fevre dream of Noam Chomsky, and the military bases will be found pretty much in such places as Germany and Japan, which are entirely independent nations.
Shaw Kenawe said...
What's really disturbing, is what I read today over at a conservative's blog.
This guy, who visits here quite often, put up a post that criticizes and mocks Michelle Obama's talk on childhood obesity.
He claims, without evidence, that she says it's more dangerous than terrorism. She doesn't say that at all.
I know who you are talking about Shaw, I also read his blog, and you know what? I agree with him.. But I have to say this .. The fatties aren't trying to kill the rest of us, or force us to eat more Twinkies and potato chips. And they don't make bomb-vests in 3X size. And Considering that most of the detainees in Guatanamo have gained weight during their stay there, Perhaps our First Lady should go to Gitmo with her cause.
JMHO agrees with a blogger who lied and misrepresented what Mrs. Obama said.
Figures.
Where did he/she/it learn logic? At the Barnum and Bailey School for Clowns?
There is no connection between Mrs. Obama's push to get kids to eat healthy and to exercise and terrorists.
None.
But the Barnum and Bailey Logic School for Clowns has somehow found one.
It is a very good example of how some bloggers on the right will NEVER give any credit to this administration for anything it does, even when it is something good for children.
Pathetic.
dmarks,
re:bases.Point taken, I hadn't considered that but will look into it.
Regarding the march westward-I appreciate you acknowledging this.
Oso said: "Regarding the march westward-I appreciate you acknowledging this."
Well, it is a major point. Dozens of Native nations were conquered in that period, and "we" did hold them. For the most part it can be said that we no longer hold them against their will, but there is still resentment, and more.
As for the bases, Okinawa is making more and more noise about getting the US base off there. If they really want us gone, we should be. As happened with the US bases in the Phillipines.
Read this on vacation. Quite interesting.
'Imperial Cruise' by James Bradley.
A fascinating story of American imperialism in the Philippines, China and Korea and it's ramifications for America then and now. The expansion westward moves far beyond the North American Continent and actually culminates in our presence in Asia.
Noam Chomsky is always the rightwing go to guy when our 'peaceful, benign' motives power are questioned. Highlight some of his more controversial theories and dismiss the entire body of work. Fact is Chomsky is essentially correct about US imperialism.
No secret to the rest of the world it's only Americans who deny the obvious.
Actually, Chomsky alienates all but the extreme hard left. He's one of the few who supported Pol Pot and the killing fields. He lost a lot of friends on that one, and he also loses friends for his well-known antisemitism. While Chomsky may get the facts right sometimes on US imperialism, especially prior to WW2, he misses the boat and flat out makes up stuff in the post WW2 period.
I don't dismiss his entire body of work. I recognize his great achieveements in linguistics... his actual acredited field, one he has great accomplishments in. That's his real work, not his hobby of paranoid ravings about things he knows little about.
He's like Henry Ford in that way. Ford was a great innovator in automotive manufacturing and marketing. He also wrote raving lunatic books. I dismiss his books, while recognizing his actual achievements.
A quote from Chomsky: "By now Jews in the US are the most privileged and influential part of the population. You find occasional instances of anti-Semitism but they are marginal."
I was not aware of this before. Just one example of his many antisemitic statements. I can see that this man would have a lot in common with Pat Buchanan were they to meet and share a beer or something. Far from a side issue, this quote from Chomsky in which he gives voice to the neo-Nazi claim of Jewish control fits in perfectly with Chomsky's other imaginary theories about groups having "control".
dmarks please.
You can jump up and down all you want about Noam Chomsky but it doesn't in any way shape or form negate the imperial, westward-ho expansion all the way to Asia which has, since the birth of the nation, been the mission of the powers that be running the good old US of A.
For what it's worth Noam has pissed off the left, the right and the center.
He might be onto something.
"I mean the great act of genocide in the modern period is Pol Pot, 1975 through 1978 - that atrocity - I think it would be hard to find any example of a comparable outrage and outpouring of fury and so on and so forth." -- Noam Chomsky, in the documentary "Manufacturing Consent," 1993.(1)
dmarks,
In the article you reference Chomsky was comparing present day circumstances to the past;he was denied rent in a neighborhood near his work because he was a Jew and claims the Anti-Semitism on the faculty was so thick it could be "cut with a knife".
The direction of the article was Israeli attempts to falsely equate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism.
Visceral loathing is right. The battle between 'real Americans' and the rest of us as fought in Texas:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html?ref=magazine
Viseral loathing continued:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/us/politics/16teaparty.html?hp
Far too many people haven't paid attention to the state of the nation and the world until one day they wake up and fall under the spell of the Glenn Becks, Limbaughs, Palins, Coulters Hannity's et. al. of the world.
My favorite is this guy from Idaho:
"Most of the people there had paid only passing attention to national politics in years past. “I voted twice and I failed political science twice,” said Darin Stevens, leader of the Spokane 9/12 Project.
Until the recession, Mr. Stevens, 33, had poured his energies into his family and his business installing wireless networks. He had to lay off employees, and he struggled to pay credit cards, a home equity loan, even his taxes. “It hits you physically when you start getting the calls,” he said.
He discovered Glenn Beck, and began to think of Washington as a conspiracy to fleece the little guy. “I had no clue that my country was being taken from me,” Mr. Stevens explained. He could not understand why his progressive friends did not see what he saw."
33, ignorant as the day is long (and proud of it) he leads his very own chapter of Beck's 9/12 Project there in Spokane.
Is this a great country or what?
The interesting thing about this latest flood of victimhood is these folks can't muster the slightest bit of sympathy for those overseas who have suffered our government's policies beginning virtually with the founding of the nation and continuing even as we type.
Oh well.
Arthurstone,
well put. I work with a lot of "born again" political types like Mr Stevens and you're right-they have no sympathy for any victims.
James Bradley writes great well researched books. I look forward to reading that book you mentioned arthurstone. Teddy was a nasty progressive president wasn't he?
Teddy was a piece of work to be sure. That said the prime example of bipartisanship in our politics has always been the creation and support of the American empire. Politicians of virtually every stripe find common ground when it comes to inventing then protecting US 'interests' abroad.
Teddy's Nobel Peace Prize, won for brokering peace during the Russo-Japanese war, set the stage for WWII according to Bradley.
There's certainly something to consider.
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