Surprise! Surprise! Some of my readers, including myself, found we were in agreement with much of what Joe Conservative posted.
Okay. So have at it and continue with more input and ideas.
No snarking, please. This is a constructive discussion.
Here's where we left off:
Dave Miller said...Joe... how could this, real employment opportunities, be accomplished? And like you, I'm not a fan of the "flavor du jour" enterprise tax zones.
So, how would you, an at least right of center guy, make real opportunity happen?
Joe Conservative said...Simple, I'd cap corporate capitalizations @ $1b, repeal all domestic corporate tax breaks, tax all foreign corporate profits at 90%, put 90% tariffs on all foreign goods, set 0% tax rate on small businesses/ LLCs earning less than $5m a yea, and put the capital gains tax rate at 50%. The legal emphasis would be on "small". I'd trust-bust the hell out of large corporations and all governments, federal, state, and local. I'd reduce the current overall US Aggregate Efficiency by 50%. All this would increase demand for workers AND discourage capital investments in "Automation".
Joe Conservative said...In other words, I'd change the tax code.
JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...Interesting my friend from the right. JoeC. I would enjoy a real discussion in real time on this if Shaw had the time and inclination for it. Suffice to say that the billionaires funding the TRump campaign would see your ideas as Bernie Sanderesque here though. I figured you would have been a free trader my friend.
Les Carpenter said...Wow Joe Conservative, some sensible suggestions/proposals. Some stuff that the MAGA right wealthy would surely trash.
Dave Miller said...Kudos to Joe... finally someone from the right who has done more than carp.
There's some stuff in his suggestions I know I'd like.
I too believe the "Feds" are bloated and need to, like American companies across the land, learn to do more, with less. How can government be forced to increase efficiency and productivity.
A number of years ago I was in DC. My overwhelming takeaway, after the monuments and the Smithsonian was this. Buildings and buildings everywhere for the different departments of the US government. And each of those with thousands and thousands of employees.
All of those employees I am sure work hard at something. But they produce not one product for the American people that can be put into your hands. They're overseers, policy wonks and lawyers.
As a regular guy, I'm convinced we can do better with less ppl being pushed to be more productive and limiting their reach into the lives of everyday Americans.
A specific Joe... to your tariffs, 90% on everything? Including for example cars and products from Canada and Mexico? And when those prices go up, how do we convince Americans that it's for the best? Especially if they can't afford what they need?
Dave Miller said...Thinking on Joe's tariffs... I'd create a mostly tax free zone including the US, Mexico and Canada. Then, I'd work to extend it to include Central America. That would wrap the areas where the great majority of immigrants to America come from.
We're still going to need immigrants. If we bring millions of manufacturing jobs back to the US, we're going to need more workers. Those can and should come from our hemisphere.
Maybe excluding China, we can keep price increases lower and keep immigration lower too.
Joe Conservative said...Sorry guys, but you DON'T know MAGA like I know MAGA. I don't "keep it at a psychological distance". I actually listen to them. And I think that you misunderstand Trump's business/ corporate positions much as you misunderstand JD Vance's (Peter Thiel's protege) and the National Conservatives (NATCons). To "close this psychological distance), I would recommend you spend 40 minutes to educate yourselves. No, Trump and Vance's economic positions aren't nearly as radical as my own (as I am a RADICAL PROGRESSIVE and not a NeoLiberal One). I want to "downsize" BOTH corporate beheamoths AND the federal Government. But they DO scale back the global corporatism plaguing us with endless wars for expansion of Empire at the US taxpayer's expense. I have family ancestors that were Representatives in the California legislature back in the early 1900's when the Republican Party was VERY anti-trust (especially the railroads0.
I also worked on the DC Beltway for 30 years directly for NASA and the federal government. I've seen the good and bad of government economic management from the inside, and it's not all rainbows and sunshine.
As for your specifics, tariffs, its' a game now and I'm sure the timing might have to vary so as not to "shock" the economy, but yes, I'd like to see tariffs end up there. Biden just put a huge tariff on Chinese EVs... but the major Chinese EV firms already have EV assembly plants in Mexico... so guess what... they evade the recent Chinese EV tariffs.
Hope you take the time to check out the links. Hope this gets posted as a response. I'm open to a conversation if you still have questions and want to talk.
Les Carpenter said...I would personally like to k Joe Conservative for his willingness to elevate the level of discourse with his positive input and suggested solutions.
Maybe, possibly, positivity and truthful honest observations and discussion will become the norm again.
39 comments:
I'm not saying that I'm in love with Trump and Vance... here are some reservations I have that I posted at Z's blog in response to her questions:
What is the worst thing about Theil, the most dangerous to our country, in your opinion.
Palantir – Intelligence agencies use Palantir software to unify their fractured data landscape. Palantir can integrate data of any type, size, source, or format while preserving the integrity and classification of source systems. Granular access controls govern how users can interact with data according to role, classification, or purpose. Palantir can also integrate streaming data, such as video feeds, in real time, and federate searches to external sources. Once integrated, Palantir provides tools to refine high-noise, high-volume datasets, and infrastructure to deploy, train, evaluate, and improve artificial intelligence and machine learning. By augmenting human judgment and expertise with technology that makes massive-scale data manageable and useful, Palantir lets analysts spend less time manipulating data and more time understanding and engaging with it.
Thiel and his billionaire partner are heavily invested in Vance, and now Trump. My fear is that the National Security State will grow stronger, and since many OTHER COUNTRIES using Palantir software, will be integrated with the globalists and make them even MORE powerful, censorious, and controlling than they are now. This all needs to get rolled back, not expanded. They are interfering in the daily lives of all Americans. This needs to STOP. The propaganda will only get WORSE.
---
JOE: I’m FASCINATED…what about the platform of the NationalConservatism, etc…..bothers you? I just read through them more carefully and I’d say they’re pretty acceptable and good choices for a healthy, successful, fair America??!
What I dislike about them is that they are still “corporatist”. American workers will benefit from their policies in that they’ll attempt to return the “manufacturing” that got offshored back to the homeland. But on the negative side, it won’t be organized on a small business model. It’ll be organized to benefit corporate behemoths and shareholder, and so, reduce business OWNERSHIP opportunities.
I don’t want to live in an America where the people are mostly “proletariate” workers. I want to live in an America where we are mostly bourgeoisie “owners”, risk TAKERS, not risk MANAGERS. And so instead of having a highly educated surplus-salaried corporate ‘elite’ trying to “manage us”, we’ll have a well rounded and self-financed and much more anti-fragile Middle class” influencing politics.
What I love about Trump is that he OWNS Trump, Inc… it isn’t a “shareholder-managed” entity so much as a Trump-managed one. He isn’t responsive to shareholders, so much as to himself. He takes his own risks, and doesn’t “manage them” for someone else. And I wish that every American enterprise were more like that, even though I own corporate stock shares myself. But then there needs to be a middle ground between to two organizational styles. Meden Agan… nothing too much!
Well Joe, while I think the 90% tariff on goods from our hemisphere may be a mistake, for the reasons Dave noted we noted
Joe... as it relates to vehicles manufactured in Mexico, I'm sure we could work out a reasonable solution in the North American Zone to define a car from this zone as one made with parts from this zone. That should exclude China.
But so many of our corporations are going to balk at limiting China cause they're making millions there.
I get the urge to reject many forms of globalism, but I'm at a loss to understand how we unwind that, how do we untangle?
It's like defense procurements. Our Reps were very smart, including pieces parts from every district in almost every weapon, guaranteeing costs in perpetuity, even if the generals don't want the weapons.
I'm not sure Trump, Biden, Kennedy or anyone else can change some of these structures and, allow Americans to stay wealthy during the upheaval and change over.
That's probably where the hard part will be. Upset the market and the 401k's and we wll know what follows.
Joe... I would agree on the part above about shareholders, us really, focus on one thing... profits. Because that drives dividend and our wallets.
It also leads to bad long term decisions by BOD's, at least IMHO.
Again, I'm not sure how we change that short of blowing up the system.
I am really really disliking my phone...
as I was saying, while I believe the 90% tariff excessive for the reasons Dave voiced your focus is largely something that is sensible.
My issue with corporate greed and corporate welfare runs in parallel with yours. As does my concern with waste in government and lack of accountability. But the GOP, moved away from sensible fiscal stewardship long ago. It has a lot of work to do to ever gain my trust again. I am not sure it is even possible.
And Joe, I have looked at Trump, observed his actions, listened to his rhetoric, observed what I observed in J6 2021, and more. There would never be a day I could or would support Trump, his party, or it's agenda (Project 2025).
But I could entertain a sincere individual, regardless of party affiliation, with a platform like you layed out.
Like I "hedged"... In the short term, I'm sure you're right. Long term though? Won't China just move their assembly plants to Canada and Mexico? If we're to retain a large mfg base in America, we'll need to protect it. I attended the US Merchant Marine Academy and have seen the effects of the Jones Act even after graduation, when I worked in shipyards in San Francisco and Baltimore. You can build a ship ANYWHERE, which is why so few 9aside from US Navy contracts) GOT BUILT here.
My problem with Trump is Trump. His character and dishonesty. In that he rates in the sewer of humanity. He is simply a leap too giddamn far to make. In 2016, 2020, now, or ever.
A question Joe... whato you think of Senator Warren? Listening to her on the view I've been quite impressed with her views on corporations and billionaire corporations. As well as her sincerity in her desire to make America more democratic. I found myself thinking she just might make a successful president.
There really is talent out there. It's up to America to recognize it and not settle for leftovers so to speak.
/Joe... as it relates to vehicles manufactured in Mexico, I'm sure we could work out a reasonable solution in the North American Zone to define a car from this zone as one made with parts from this zone. That should exclude China.
Again, we're locked by international treaty into certain arrangements for the short term... Trump had renegotiated the Canada/Mexico treaty previously, so it could be done again. I'm not sure of how long the terms last. The Chinese targetted compliance to the current treaty (foreign content), so as of now, they're in.
/But so many of our corporations are going to balk at limiting China cause they're making millions there.
Indeed. There's a lot to unpack and no doubt China will retaliate. But I'm not concerned about retaliation, because the Chinese are much more dependent upon access to OUR markets than we are to theirs (the were always very protectionist).
/I get the urge to reject many forms of globalism, but I'm at a loss to understand how we unwind that, how do we untangle?
In measured stages, I hope. I wouldn't put up the tariffs immediately, they'd have to be eased in.
/It's like defense procurements. Our Reps were very smart, including pieces parts from every district in almost every weapon, guaranteeing costs in perpetuity, even if the generals don't want the weapons.
You don't have to tell me this. Besides, Ukraine has shown that we need a different "mix" of weapons... a better Hi-Lo mix including millions of drones... (not F-35s).
/I'm not sure Trump, Biden, Kennedy or anyone else can change some of these structures and, allow Americans to stay wealthy during the upheaval and change over.
That is the trick, to prevent a system transition, and not a crash.
/That's probably where the hard part will be. Upset the market and the 401k's and we wll know what follows.
I hear ya. I'm drawing off my IRA now, still heavily market invested.
/Joe... I would agree on the part above about shareholders, us really, focus on one thing... profits. Because that drives dividend and our wallets. It also leads to bad long term decisions by BOD's, at least IMHO.
I agree with you. It's one of the reasons I prefer "private" (as opposed to "public") corporations. They aren't publically traded, and all the risks are retained/ bourne by the owners. My BiL used to consult for Bechtel (private) and their executive management. For a short time, i was invested in SAIC (another Private). The shareholder "price" wasn't based on "trade" value. Publically traded share are MUCH more volatile (VIX)
/Again, I'm not sure how we change that short of blowing up the system.
I doubt anyone really is. It's a "risk". And much like Nassim Taleb say's, "we need to train people to become risk TAKERS and not risk MANAGERS".
/I am really really disliking my phone...
...as I was saying, while I believe the 90% tariff excessive for the reasons Dave voiced your focus is largely something that is sensible.
I just picked a number out of the air (as a final target)... I'm sure it would have to vary based upon international treaty obligations.
/My issue with corporate greed and corporate welfare runs in parallel with yours. As does my concern with waste in government and lack of accountability. But the GOP, moved away from sensible fiscal stewardship long ago. It has a lot of work to do to ever gain my trust again. I am not sure it is even possible.
Yes, I rashly fell for Reagonomics at the time, taking it on faith that the jobs would stay here. They didn't. And I think that the NATCons see this too, now, but who knows. Thiel and Vance could be full of sh*t, too. It will be up to Trump to keep them in check with MAGA populism.
/And Joe, I have looked at Trump, observed his actions, listened to his rhetoric, observed what I observed in J6 2021, and more. There would never be a day I could or would support Trump, his party, or it's agenda (Project 2025).
I understand. I simply don't think that Project 2025 is Trump's agenda so much as Heritage's (which is corporatist through and through)... I prefer Hoover as a bit more socially "pragmatic", but it too is corporatist. The NATCons are a step in the right direction, but they aren't there yet, either. RADICAL PROGRESSIVENESS is what I seek. "Small" as the goal.
/But I could entertain a sincere individual, regardless of party affiliation, with a platform like you layed out.
Me too! That's why my "2nd choice" is RFK, Jr. He's anti Deep State (USIC) amd foreign entanglements... but he's still "green" (my disagreement with him). I'll have to re-evaluate after the Democratic Convention and see how things shake out. I held my nose and voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, so who knows?
/My problem with Trump is Trump. His character and dishonesty. In that he rates in the sewer of humanity. He is simply a leap too giddamn far to make. In 2016, 2020, now, or ever.
Yes, you're not alone in your distaste. My favorite philosopher, Slavoj Zizek also rants about the "Obscene Master". But as a 'Modernist' trying to combat 'Post-Modernism' (reactionary), it seems to me a pretty "appropriate" response. Even Zizek acknowledges that Trump is the first truly post-modern reaction to post-modernism. I guess that maybe that makes him the first meta-modernist.
From quantum mechanics we know about entanglements. A Particle on earth can have a "twin" light years removed from earth acting exactly like the particle on earth.
The interconnectedness of phenomenon exists throughout the cosmos.
So, i ask, why would this interconnectedness, globalism neccessariy be a bad thing. Wouldn't working together and developing positive synergies to benefit all of humanity be considered a good thing?
Fierce Individualism and Ignorance are my guesses as to why folks will dismiss consideration of the foregoing thoughts.
Joe Conservative, Les, Dave M.,
Thanks for keeping this going. I'll try to hop in and add my 2 cents later, but this is a busy day for me. I'll keep checking my phone to see any new comments and publish them.
/A question Joe... whato you think of Senator Warren? Listening to her on the view I've been quite impressed with her views on corporations and billionaire corporations. As well as her sincerity in her desire to make America more democratic. I found myself thinking she just might make a successful president.
I'm not a big fan. I see her as a typical neo-liberal masquerading as a Bernie alternative (kinda like DeSantis was against Trump)... but I could be wrong. And I also hate the CFPB, since its' "off-budget" and funded by the Federal reserve and mortgage loan profits FANNIE/FREDDIE/etc. I hate GoCos (Government Owned/ Company Operated) entitites. It the worst of both worlds, IMO. I don't know, I kinda see her as a Barney Frank bank-expert bs'er, but only half as smart as Barney was.
/There really is talent out there. It's up to America to recognize it and not settle for leftovers so to speak.
There is, but it's been much maligned by the powers that be. I could have Warren all wrong, the way the Right-media maligns her. But we never get the truth. We live in a Hyper-real media-made twilight that makes it difficult to discern "true forms".
/From quantum mechanics we know about entanglements. A Particle on earth can have a "twin" light years removed from earth acting exactly like the particle on earth.
The interconnectedness of phenomenon exists throughout the cosmos.
So, i ask, why would this interconnectedness, globalism neccessariy be a bad thing. Wouldn't working together and developing positive synergies to benefit all of humanity be considered a good thing?
Indeed, if that was what we were doing. But I discovered that the 9/11 attack on the US was probably justified. Corporatism was putting all the world's local economies "out of business". We saw that especially in the Arab Spring when that Araber set himself on fire to protest his inability to earn a living. Even Osama bin Laden was recruiting the "2nd+ sons" of Arab Moslems (worldwide) in an attempt at jihad and give these sons who wouldn't "inherit" a chance to make a life for themselves as warlords and then able to attract a bride that way.
And then I learned the true story of the blob's overthrow of Ukraine, and it makes me sick. We have become 'globally' what the USSR was and what we were fighting in the Cold War. A voracious trade empire seeking global domination.
/Fierce Individualism and Ignorance are my guesses as to why folks will dismiss consideration of the foregoing thoughts.
I agree, and think digital isolation is a huge problem. We no longer come together as real communities to take action. We've become political hikikomori. And the on-line groups we do form are, much as you characterize... a Bitter Sweet Symphony.
Thanks for facilitating the conversation, Shaw!
errata- That is the trick, to PROVIDE FOR a system transition, and not a crash.
BTW Joe, @ this stage of life (final lap) I've decided that reification of any belief simply stands in the way of wisdom and effectively insures one's own status quo. IE: I became a seeker precisely because for too many years I followed the conditioning of a society that loves to control others and is quick to judge. Based on their own reified belief systems.
So, in essence, I will consider everything so long as honesty, decency, proper motivation, sincerity, and concern for all is present in the candidate. And I find none of the above present in Trump's character.
I'm brutally honest on where I stsnd and why. And dishonesty and self serving narcissism will automatically take a candidate out of play for me. Abd that is Trump. At least he's consistent. Consistently dishonest and self serving. IMNHO.
Other than Trump i'd have to say we have more that we agree on in this thread than not Joe.
While the thought of smaller government sounds appealing, there are far too many things that only government can do. As citizens we're all shareholders in the government.
The tariffs also sound nice till they're implemented. They need to be levied when appropriate of course. To tariff everything, no matter the percentage, simply raises prices. In essence,they're an added sales tax on consumers. I ask for good character, intelligence and a good dose of empathy from those I vote for. Sadly the choices don't always possess those characteristics. For what it's worth, I support a version of the fair tax on all income and revenue. The percentage wouldn't have to be very high and just as I like playing the ball as it lies on the golf course, one rate for everything with no deductions takes all the bullsh!t out of it. Thanks for the thread Shaw and thanks JoeC for your comments.
To your point Joe about the USA becoming what the USSR was.
I hear ya. Perhaps alliances deserve the heat. The very concept of alliances encourages banding together ostensibly for mutual defense, but alliances insure continued separation and othering of, well, the other side.
At the heart of our national and global suffering lies duality. Until the human race grasps that and realizes there is a better path I frankly see little chance of lasting positive change.
On another note, Netanyahu and the right wing in Israel are pariahs. And I am at a loss as to why the US continues to finance the unholy destruction of innocent Palestinians through arms sales.
Actually, I do know. The MIC and it's voracious appetite to find (or create) conflict that it can respond to. Thus bringing in $$$$$ and keeping the institution of war profitable.
Joe said... "My favorite philosopher,[is] Slavoj Zizek..."
He's interesting, I'll give you that. I've just started Paul Tillich's "The Socialist Decision" where he tried to find a middle ground between the the coming authoritarian government and the Lutheran Church and their enabling theology of accommodation.
Just sayin'...
And yes, the idea, hopefully, would be to make the landing of change not too bumpy. But that's going to require a lot of giving up from all sides. But who knows, crisis has a way of focusing ppl.
What we really need are some folks who are allowed to think outside the box, a tall order these days.
This thread though gives me hope. I really do think the great majority of Americans want good for America and her citizens, despite a lot of the sideshow stuff.
BTW... I did not mean to limit my thoughts on the North American Zone to Mexico. I'm well aware we import a lots of autos and other durable goods from Canada. I do think the three of us countries, banded together, could be a powerful block.
We have industrious ppl, resources, oil, and more. Really, do we need the rest of the world?
It's my closet isolationist.
Well, thank you all for your honesty and the conversation. I hope we can do it again sometime. I truly believe that people on both sides of the party divide honestly want what's best for our nation. We won't always agree on specifics, but I think there's more common ground than both extremes would ever admit.
Thanks for the thread, Shaw. Maybe I can return the favour one day soon. Good night!
I think we may end up closer to Rome just before it's fall with a dose of Russia due to class warfare and populism becoming more popular. Populism is easily exploited by promising whatever those who feel left out whatever they want to hear. Millions are entertained by Twitter and Tic Toc and Facebook. All the while being inundated with propaganda. One side demanding the rich be taxed and the other calling those that don't earn enough to meet the threshold of income tax deadbeats and moochers. A CNA in a nursing home, the person who is tasked with doing all the dirty work taking care of our elderly makes close to minimum wage. So sad that this person is considered a mooch by so many.
Joe, thinking of your CNA, I'd add this...
We have price inflation for sure. What we do not have at the same level, nor have we, is wage inflation.
In the mid 70's in Southern California on less than $1000.00 a month I could afford my car, my apartment, my food, my girl and plenty of fun.
I was an Assistant manager at Carl's Jr.
Now to afford the exact same 1 bedroom apartment I rented back then, and it's a lot older now, you need a monthly salary of $6900.00.
There ain't no fast food place paying anything like that for an Assistant manager these days. Nor will any CNA make anything close to that.
I would argue corporate greed, but it's us too. Our need to have these companies feed our retirement accts and 401k accts, pushes them, by fiduciary law, to maximize profits for investors over employees.
Con. Joe is probably right. We don't just need government reform, we need corporate reform.
But who in the political realm is gonna argue for and support that?
I mean, besides Bernie?
-FJ/Joe Con:
"Chinese are much more dependent upon access to OUR markets than we are to theirs (the were always very protectionist)."
Be that as it may, the trade deficit plainly shows we NEED what the Chinese manufacture. One glaring area is pharmaceuticals.
Combine this with the life-threatening GREED of Big Pharma and we have a serious problem.
I agree the US should step up on manufacturing such essentials. Socialized healthcare and nationalized pharmaceutical manufacturing would be the healthiest solution for Americans. Our rising infant mortality rate and falling life expectancy makes this clear.
But clearly life after birth never mattered to the EXTREMIST party of Trump.
"We won't always agree on specifics, but I think there's more common ground than both extremes would ever admit."
Be that as it may, when one side indoctrinates enough Americans to hate the other and to reject democracy and election results, not much else matters.
To be clear, Trump IS the extreme Right. His base is full of greedy billionaires, Putinists, Christian nationalists, authoritarians, and white supremacists. What could go wrong?
The more corporate-friendly party that is openly hostile to Constitutional taxes, provision for the general welfare, and regulation of commerce will always have disproportionate power, thanks to the anti-democratic Senate, a partisan and corrupt Supreme Court, and the Electoral College.
Democracy is doomed. The Party of Trump has, and will continue, to suppress and override the will of the majority.
As their intentions have been clearly stated, their priority is to PUNISH those they hate. This means more POLICE STATE abuse of power.
But as the Felonious Fuhrer said, "Hitler did some good things".
Dave M., I'll add to your recollection of what your salary could get in the '70s.
In the mid 1950s, my father, a Sicilian immigrant barber, supported a stay-at-home wife and two kids on a barber's pay. He was able to buy property, build his own home, buy the building in which his barber shop was located, put two kids through schools, change out a car every 3 years (used), and retire at 65!
What happened to change that?
BTW, I often go back and visit the 3-bedroom with attached one-car garage family home I grew up in -- a lovely suburb of Boston -- and realize I couldn't afford to buy it. The real estate prices in that community are out of reach! And it's a ranch built in 1956! Very modest home!!! But its proximity to Boston (8 miles) makes it very desirable.
Those days are gone forever.
My father was making $16,000 a year as she plant manager in 1969. He was able to purchase a 4 bedroom Colonial w/approximately 1/4 acre of land and owned 2 vehicles. While supporting me and my 3 siblings. BTW, he paid $40,000 for that home.
Indeed those days are gone forever. Largely due to ignorance and greed. Both corporate and political.
Yes Shaw, they seem to be.
My question is how did we let this happen?
It wasn't because we "took prayer out of schools" as some see as the root to all of America's ills.
It wasn't because we expanded the safety net for America's poorest ppl through Medicare, as some charge.
And it wasn't because we expanded voting rights, again, as some charge.
What was it? What happened that drove middle class, one working parent families essentially out of business?
I don't make bad $$$ as a non profit director. And while I have a house in Nevada, bought with 3.5k loan from my mom and made possible with a state financed loan payment of $500.00 in 1979, I literally cannot afford to rent my old 1 bedroom 500 sq ft apartment in So Cal.
Why is that?
Anyone got an answer?
The 3 br ranch I grew up in in San Jose, CA on a postage stamp lot which my parents bought in '62 for $17k lists today for $1,427,300.
It's ridiculous.
I'll try AGAIN.
1969 - Parents paid $40, 000 for 4 bedroom Colonial on 1/4 acre.
Dad was making $16,000/yr... mom stayed home.
Based on the home my son paid $484,000 a few years ago, now valued at over $850,000, I'm guessing my parents home would bring over $750,000.
One word - GREED.
So Joe C and others... why is housing so much more expensive these days?
Perhaps more than any other item, housing is what makes it impossible for a mom or dad to stay home and take care of the kids.
Answer is simple -- NEW tech(s).
Techs that could INCREASE productivity of work.
And ALLOW worker to be brains and muscles once again... and not just button pusher, screen tappers.
Yawn.
News flash, technology is not the cure for America's grasping and greed. THAT is an internal problem. And it ISN'T just American.
Houses are more expensive, hell everything, because debt is not the taboo. Dedt is the friend, Has been for years. Business is not concerned with debt but with cash flow. REITS, real estate investment trusts, are huge business today because the use debt to pay dividends and everything else. If you look at the companies that buy houses to rent out, they pretty will pay any amount a seller asks for a property knowing the rent payments will more than cover any payment they incur. I imagine it will crash one day but today invest in property. Demand is huge and demand drives the economy.
Why is housing so expensive? NIMBYism. In Santa Clara Valley (CA), you can't build in the hills... you can't build too high... you can't zone a Residential 1 House property to accomodate 4 houses. The Zoning laws keep the prices UNAFFORDABLE so as to protect existing property values... ie $1.4m 3 BR Ranch homes. They can't build low-cost affordable housing... it upsets neighboring house resale prices. And nobody wants low cost housing NEXT TO THEM.
Why are house prices so high?
Simple answer... GREED.
Same for everything because enough is never enough and only more can make one happy.
Apparently.
And JoeBama is correct. Debt is of no real concern to credit hawks. Once they get a hooked ya pay till ya die. By then the credit hawks have effectively made thousands on you. The simply write off whatever was left when your gone.
Banks, loan companies, etc. are nobody's friend.
It's how they "hold up the sky" for you.
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