MAJOR BREAKING NEWS: The WSJ confirms that in the leadup to Pete Hegseth's serial war crimes in the Caribbean, he made clear to commanders that our military code *was not to be followed*—no questions were to be asked of any orders. It led to the resignation of the top commander in the Caribbean.
A firestorm of controversy has greeted a recent Washington Post report which suggested that a deadly attack on a vessel carrying 11 people in the Caribbean was followed with a second assault after the initial strike failed to kill everybody onboard.
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“Even if we buy into their framing that the individuals on these vessels are combatants, it would still be unlawful to kill them if they are hors de combat, which means they’re incapacitated,” said Rebecca Ingber, a professor at Cardozo law school and a former legal adviser to the state department.
“It is manifestly unlawful to kill someone who’s been shipwrecked. This is such a longstanding textbook principle of the law of armed conflict.
The prohibition is made explicit in the Pentagon’s own Law of War manual."
'Members of the armed forces and other persons … who are wounded, sick, or shipwrecked, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances,' it says. 'Such persons are among the categories of persons placed hors de combat; making them the object of attack is strictly prohibited.'
Significantly – given the allegation that the second strike was conducted in accordance with Hegseth’s order to kill everyone onboard – the manual also addresses the question of illegal orders."
36 comments:
Thank god, the combat lawyers have arrived!
If anything happens in response to the Hegseth/tRump criminality in this instance it likely will be Bradley who will take the fall.
Nothing sticks to tRump regardless the criminality or immorality.
tRump is truly the Teflon Don.
Trump’s reign of moral debasement of America will guarantee his place in American history will be in the sewer.
Do you have a problem with holding Hegseth responsible for not obeying the law?
This is in the Pentagon’s OWN “ Law of War Manuel:”
”Members of the armed forces and other persons … who are wounded, sick, or shipwrecked, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances,' it says. 'Such persons are among the categories of persons placed hors de combat; making them the object of attack is strictly prohibited.”
Trump makes Benedict Arnold look like a saint.
Before his treasonous betrayal, Arnold was known for his bravery, tactical skill, and significant contributions to the American cause, particularly in capturing Fort Ticonderoga and his actions at the Battle of Saratoga.
Before becoming POTUS, Trump was known for cheating contractors out of money he owed them; cheating people who signed up for his Trump University; cheating on all three wives, and in particular, Melania, when he had a one-night-stand with a porn star and a 9-month affair with a Playmate of the Year, Karen McDougal; and partying for decades with child sex traffickers and rapists, Epstein and Maxwell. Epstein said of Trump, "He knows about the girls."
It's really rich to read that Trump had the cojones to call Somalis, "garbage" when his history of cheating, lying, and being an actual convicted criminal is real!
And when the white nationalists come for the Jews, will Thersites say, "Thank god the real Americans have arrived"?
It appears... but here's what matters. Can it be proved?
Right now we're sitting at a he said/she said moment. The WAPO and "unnamed" sources say Hegseth gave an order to kill them all. Both hegseth and the Admiral in command dispute this.
Absent the "unnamed" source coming forward, this entire thing is a giant screw up. By everyone involved.
If the in theater command officer believed there was a threat, it was within his right to hit that boat again. And absent any controverting evidence, that the end of the story.
So we wait for more info. Will we get it? Doubtful.
Yes, of course. Which does nothing to stop his destruction in the present moment... moment after moment after moment... until he's no more.
Trump has no self awareness. Zip, Nada, None.
Two people treading water in the big ocean and the US Armada strikes with all their might. But the Coward In Chief trembles at the very mention of Putin.
Why is Steven Miller still running around loose?
Here's what I know, so far: The boat was bombed, everyone but two people were killed. Those two people were hanging onto the overturned boat. The boat was bombed again and the two survivors, "hors de combat," were killed.
Who gave the order to bomb the boat and kill the people who were no longer combatants?
"Hors de combat" is a French term meaning "out of combat," and it describes a person who can no longer fight due to circumstances like injury, sickness, or being captured. Under international law, such individuals are protected from attack and must be treated humanely."
Someone gave the illegal to kill the "hors de combat."
In Trump's dictatorship these war criminals will likely never be charged, and if they are, pardons will be extended.
We can't even pretend we live with "equal justice under law" anymore in this country. The Criminal President will pardon his criminals.
It is disgusting what is happening with the current situation. Our government Murdering people, no matter who they are is wrong and should not be tolerated.
When on May 2, 2011 our president authorized our military to enter a foreign country and assassinated a person while he watched it was determined that it was the sole responsibility of the president when to assassinate someone so there was not protest and the hypocrites were silent saying what a swell guy he was.
The sleazeball liar Tom Cotton claims, “I saw two survivors trying to flip a boat ― loaded with drugs, bound for the United States ― back over, so they could stay in the fight."
THREE lies in one sentence.
Lie #1: "trying to flip a boat".
No. they were no doubt wounded and clinging to wreckage for dear life. I invite Mr. Cotton to choose any champion swimmer to assist him in demonstrating how easy it is for two wounded men in the water to "flip a boat" of that size.
Lie #2: "loaded with drugs, bound for the United States".
No evidence has been shown of drugs or the intended destination. The boats are incapable of reaching the US without multiple refueling.
Lie #3: "so they could stay in the fight."
What fight? So far, not ONE shot was fired at US personnel.
It's not war. It's not self-defense. It's not legal. It is murder.
Here's the important thing to watch as it apples to WarCrimesGate...
Is there one Republican on the Senate Armed Services that met yesterday who will buck party discipline and vote with the Dems to issue subpoenas.
Just one. Does that person exist? I'm not so sure.
Here's how the issue of this "double tap" has played out over the last week, from Phil Klay, Marine and Iraqi War Vet...
The Washington Post reported last week that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth issued an order to kill everyone on that boat, which the administration says was ferrying drugs. When an initial missile disabled the vehicle but left two survivors clinging to it, the Special Operations commander overseeing the attack, Adm. Frank M. Bradley, ordered another strike that killed the helpless men. The chief Pentagon spokesman, Sean Parnell, said, [1]“This entire narrative was false,” then Mr. Trump said he [2]“wouldn’t have wanted” a second strike but [3]“Pete said that didn’t happen.” The White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, confirmed that actually, yes, [4]there was a second strike ordered by Admiral Bradley, but it was fine because the admiral was “well within his authority and the law directing the engagement to ensure the boat was destroyed and the threat to the United States of America was eliminated.” Mr. Hegseth posted a cartoon in the style of a children’s book depicting a turtle in a helicopter shooting a rocket-propelled grenade at a boat carrying drugs and “narcoterrorists.”
By my count, the Trump Admin made four different explanations of the event, before yesterday's hearing.
To our MAGA supporting folks here, which one of those 4 different explanations should we believe? And how do reasonable people decide such things?
Apparently you are okay with letting the man who masterminded the attack on America on 9/11 get away with it? We'll put you down, skud, for opposing America for retaliating against the man who killed 3,000+ Americans on 9/11.
"Legal experts argued that the raid was a lawful act of war, as bin Laden was the leader of al-Qaeda, an organization that had attacked the U.S..
Self-defense: The U.S. government justified the action as an act of self-defense, citing the right under Article 51 of the UN Charter following the September 11th attacks, which was later reinforced by a UN Security Council resolution.
A lawful target: As the leader of an enemy force in an ongoing conflict, bin Laden was considered a legitimate military target, and the U.S. Executive Order 12333 prohibition on assassinations did not apply in this military context.'
But you, skud, apparently feel America was wrong in retaliating against the man who killed 3,000+ Americans.
Got it.
Ms. Shaw, I am not at all surprised by your answer because my comment was regarding the swell guy. The problem with your answer, besides highlighting obvious TDS, is you failed to point out how many people have died from illegal drugs which is far more than died at the towers. Was there a court who approved the assignation of bin laden as you seem to feel necessary for drug traffickers.
I support the actions of both administration because it is in the best interest of the country. It does seem you support the illegal trafficking of drugs that kill Americans not because it is what you believe but because of your disdain for the administration.
In all fairness I don't believe you support illegal drugs but your TDS points that you don't want it to stop.
Agreed. Pete is a war criminal or murderer. btw, I've been creating political cartoons on my AI image blog. One of the latest can be viewed here. I think this one also turned out quite well.
In All fairness, Skud, apparently you do not believe in the rule of law. I’m surprised.
You're making the argument about drugs skud? And not one freaking word of condemnation about Trump pardoning a convicted drug trafficker who was found guilty of bringing in billions of dollars of cocaine into the USA? Yep, he was released on Tuesday. Sickening.
That swell guy, which has to be former President Obama, followed the damn laws as set forth by Congress and our Constitution when he oversaw the ending of Osama Bin Laden. But according to you what he did (dotted his I's, crossed his T's, made sure his j's and g's weren't swapped) was totally the same as Whiskey Pete's Kill them all distraction piece. Have you witnessed any drugs being pulled out of any of those boats skud? No? Then how do you know? OOOHHHHH, you believed what someone told you. LOLOLOL
It was never about drugs skud, it is and always was about Venezuela's oil. MAGA loyalists said it on podcasts and they admitted it to each other in their TV shows. Apparently the only person who didn't get the memo is you skud.
skud, humans chose to take drugs. The humans ended by the attacks orchestrated by OBL did not choose to be ended by a fire caused by planes crashing into their building. I am deeply offended you said our blog host seems to be in favor of humans dying by drug overdoses. You are one sick human skud and continue to reveal the depth of your malfeasance with every comment.
Did some digging into the spate of retirements by flag officers in the South Pacific. Did not know several brass left due to Whiskey Pete's Kill them all order.
When we look back at these days there will be so much more context to the horrors we are witnessing every day.
LOL Trump Derangement Syndrome, the imagined disease created by MAGA to explain those against Trumps logical dislike of fascist methodologies. Also applied to anyone pointing to campaign promises and expecting results aka inflation reduced, groceries affordable, economy fixed, all on day one. He said it over and over. The clips those very words are many and varied there is that much material. Seems to be skuds new favorite label of anyone who points out the myriad ways The Dahnold is failing.
I don't think we have even seen the beginning of the the democrats incompetent actions in the last election. From all their latest actions they are ended down the same road in 2028. 2026 will be fine for the democrats because it will be all about trump and that is their platform but 2028 is a different situation because even though they will try to make it all about trump he won't be on the ticket.
By their incompetence the democrats have given trump free reign to do what he wants and that is not good for anyone. After he is gone it will cost millions to rename everything trump to reasonable names.
This post is about Hegseth's incompetent and unlawful orders to bomb and kill people in the Caribbean.
That you come here and try to make it about Democrats and what you THINK will happen in 2026 and 2028 tells us that the actual subject of this post is probably either terribly uncomfortable for you understand or that you just don't care whether or not this administration cares about following the law.
The incompetence you've written about is coming from the Trump administration. In case you haven't noticed, the Democrats have zero power in what is happening in the country and with the current occupant in the gilded and tasteless Oval Office.
PS. You forgot to mention "The Swell Guy" in your comment that has nothing to do with this post.
Peace.
Well once again the pot named Skud, in his haste to condemn the "swell guy", as he mockingly refers to President Obama, while chastising us for being kettles lets his emotions cloud the facts.
Skud asked... "Was there a court who approved the assignation of bin laden as you seem to feel necessary for drug traffickers.?"
That's a great question Skud and it gets to the heart of the issue. You see, President Obama was acting under the AUMF. The AUMF is a 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) which grants the President authority to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against those who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the September 11th attacks, or harbored them, to prevent future terrorism. While initially aimed at al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, its vague language has been interpreted broadly by subsequent administrations to authorize military action against groups like ISIS in numerous countries (Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, Libya) for over two decades, leading to ongoing debates about its scope, duration, and need for replacement.
So to answer the question, yes, President Obama was fully authorized by Congress and the Constitution to act in his capacity as CinC of the US military to seek out and kill Osama bin Laden.
Additionally, to make sure the actions complied with the accepted rules of war, the action was vetted by JAG lawyers and the White House lawyers to ensure its legality.
Now whether we agree with the action Obama ordered, or subsequent actions ordered by him in the Middle East, there can be no doubt about those actions being vetted by military lawyers to ensure compliance with the laws of war and the AUMF.
Can Trump say that about the action off the coast of Venezuela? Well since he's fired most of the JAG lawyers at the Pentagon, it's doubtful.
Jason Willick, among others, argues in the WAPO for us not to focus on the trees of the obvious war crime, but instead look at the trees.
In the trees we have the "justification" for any attack in the first place. It is in those where we will find shifting justifications for the attacks, lies about the need for the attacks and outright falsehoods.
Citing unproven "evidence" Senator Rand Paul argues that at this point, any and all bombings of Venezuelan boats are themselves a war crime and illegal under the US Constitution.
President Trump has stated his goal is to remove the current president of Venezuela. Without an attack on the US, and without Congressional to go to war and fund it, that is illegal.
The shiny object is the most likely illegal 'war crime". But the larger discussion should be focused on whether the US has a right to meddle in the elections and governance of other countries, as Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Because right now we're looking more like Russia than the post WWII leaders of the free world, defending freedoms and the rule of law.
Both at home and abroad.
The only thing I am trying to convey is the democrats need a policy and a plan going into the 2028 election because we hate trump is not going to be viable. They also are being exposed for their affordability rant because it was their leader that caused outrages inflation, huge price increases, shortages and spiking labor costs which will mean prices will not go down but will continue to go up.
Oh well each side will blame the other and We The People will continue to be pawns in the political chess match.
I thought republicans were adverse to regime change and spending taxpayer dollars to accomplish it. Guess the authoritarian tRump regime is more in line with the do whatever it wants regardless the lack of justification
An actual act of war against the Nation and people of the USA is of course another thing.
Apparently for tRump and the current regime nothing matters, not even the law if it stands in the way of tRump's dictatorial desires.
That is very true skud. Since 40 percent of America ( nearly 100% red Amerika) has their eyes shut and their ears plugged while they kiss the behind of their Fuhrer
A rebellion is brewing in the GOP congress. Trump/Johnson refuse to address
rising consumer costs, except for blaming Biden. The consumer needs and wants action and they know it, or there will be a Dem majority in 2026, skud blaming Biden for tariffs made me grin.
First off Skud, your latest comment where you said "The only thing I am trying to convey is the democrats need a policy and a plan going into the 2028 election because we hate trump is not going to be viable is untrue.
You've tried to convey actions of President Obama in killing Osama bin Laden were illegal. That was false as I've shown.
You've talked about prices, inflation and any other issues also, so you are not singularly focused as your comment seems to imply.
As Shaw said... "This post is about Hegseth's incompetent and unlawful orders to bomb and kill people in the Caribbean."
I'm sure we'll get to your hobby horse after the new year as election fever ramps up, but until then, try, try, try to stick to the posts. And I think you'll see people will appreciate it.
That's literally all we should be talking about on this thread, but some people can't get that and want to inject other stuff.
You've said many here are guilty of TDS. It's subjective, but I see that as false. Unless of course you admit ODS or BDS.
Dave, Just trying to lend a hand to the democrats because they are going down the same rabbit hole they went down in 2026.
I haven't seen any advisor or cabinet person who is qualified and hegseth is a prime example.
I don't make everything about obama just because he was a special interest president. I do have some BDS because he was so incompetent and to deny he is the biggest cause for pricing being where they are today. Had he have no closed the country, gave away billions and increased regulations we would have more stable pricing. How many billions did he spend on DEI and battery cars. Solar incentives because it helps the environment is a false narrative.
Skud, you live in fact free, hate Obama universe. But at least you seem to be aware of that. At least on the Obama issue.
Ignorance is bliss. Or so they say.
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