you know, the ones who believe the Obama administration manipulated the job numbers?
Here's someone who actually knows what he's talking about:
"Let’s get one thing out of the way: The data was not, as Jack Welch suggested in a now-infamous tweet, manipulated. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is set up to ensure the White House has no ability to influence it. As labor economist Betsey Stevenson wrote, “anyone who thinks that political folks can manipulate the unemployment data are completely ignorant of how the BLS works and how the data are compiled.” Plus, if the White House somehow was manipulating the data, don’t you think they would have made the payroll number look a bit better than 114,000? No one would have batted an eye at 160,000. [...]
The number could, of course, be wrong. The household survey is, well, a survey, which means it’s open to error. But the internals back it up. The number saying they had jobs increased by about 800,000. That seems high, but it’s counting 582,000 who say they got part-time jobs.
This is an encouraging report. What it tells us is that the labor market has
been a bit better over the last few months than we thought, and that the
recovery hasn’t slowed in the ways we feared. What the response to it tells us
is that the election is driving people a little bit crazy. " --Ezra Klein
A little bit crazy?
I'd say out-of-control, crazy-as-a-ferret-on-meth crazy.
Certain rightwingers are so intense in their hatred of President Obama that even good news about more Americans working is seen as something evil and underhanded instead of a relief that our economy is, by inches, doing better. The unemployment numbers didn't bottom out until half way into Mr. Obama's first year, then it was a slow but steady climb out of the hole we were in.
I find it astounding that a huge segment of our society actually is pissed about that. But then I remember the GOP's goal: To do everything in its power to stop Mr. Obama from getting a second term even if that meant hurting American families. In less than 3 1/2 years this country is coming back from the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. And yet, there they are, eyes bulging, veins popping, apoplectic over the good news, and actually claiming the numbers were manipulated.
Why would any sane person vote these people back into office? People who put their irrational hatred of President Obama ahead of their love of country?
Ray Mederios of Politicususa:
"...the BLS isn’t the only statisticians in town. We also have APD payroll, a private company that surveys private companies, and for months their numbers have been larger than BLS.
In fact, even this month ADP’s numbers came in bigger than the BLS final number. Being conservative, you would think they would believe the private sector more than the public sector numbers. But considering those numbers are actually better for Obama, they conveniently ignore that fact.
Another indicator that these right wing BLS truthers are just crying over nothing is Gallup polling. Economic confidence is up, and the University of Michigan’s consumer confidence is also increased. What does that tell us? People feel more confident in their economic situation, and are spending more money, etc.
Even Gallup polling for unemployment came in at 7.8%. The problem for Republicans is that these numbers don’t help their prospects of getting elected, or support their argument. It’s pathetic really. When you think about it, the right is cheering on and hoping for bad numbers in order to increase their chances of winning elections."
26 comments:
the CONservatives wouldn't give Obama credit for killing bin laden, why do we expect them to give him credit for the jobs numbers...they're eaten up by their hate so nothing the administration does that is positive makes them happy...eff em all.
Many conservatives DID give Obama credit for giving the order to allow Seal Team 6 to kill Osama bin Laden.
The market, as it always does, adjusts sooner or later and the jobs follow. Presidents have less influence and impact than the public thinks.
More jobs is always good!
People having to settle for part time jobs, not as good as full time jobs.
Lets hope the percentage isn't corrected upward next month the Friday before the election when the next report comes out.
Perhaps hundreds of thousands of people will now come off the sidelines and start looking for work again. That would be good news, right?
Except the unemployment number would skyrocket :-)
To those who claim the numbers are cooked; that is crazy. The LBS has incredible security during the time the numbers are crunched. The survey? That could be a bit off.
Evolution is a lie, anthropogenic global warming isn't happening, you can get more revenue by cutting taxes, Obama's birth certificate is fake, rape is a form of birth control, and all the polls are deliberately skewed to show Republicans losing. These people have a completely delusional world-view. You can pretty much guarantee that anything that doesn't fit their narrative will be denounced as a vast conspiracy, no matter how unlikely that is.
The narrative is that Obama is a failure and an aberration, he can't do anything right, and the people will correct their mistake this year and dump him. So any evidence that he's succeeding -- especially at reducing unemployment, which polls as by far most voters' top concern -- has to be attacked.
What bothers me most about this is how they'll react on November 7 after Obama gets 350 electoral votes. A lot of them will quickly convince themselves that that, too, is somehow a fraud. And that will be dangerous. "Crazy as a ferret on meth" -- and a lot of them have guns.
@Anon, the GOP has a problem with reality. See Infidel's comment, and then the last paragraph below.
RN, if what you say is true, then why do your pals on the other side of the aisle keep blaming Mr. Obama for not creating enough jobs?
KP, helping Americans get back to work should be a goal we all support; and when the numbers improve, we should all be relieved for our fellow Americans. But it appears in some people's minds partisanship trumps citizenship.
Infidel,
I found this over at TPM:
Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) tore into scientists as tools of the devil in a speech at the Liberty Baptist Church Sportsman’s Banquet last month.
“All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell,” Broun said. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”
According to Broun, the scientific plot was primarily concerned with hiding the true age of the Earth. Broun serves on the House Science Committee, which came under scrutiny recently after another one of its Republican members, Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO), suggested that victims of “legitimate rape” have unnamed biological defenses against pregnancy.
“You see, there are a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth,” he said. “I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old. I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says.”
Ignorance and superstition are at the core of their being. But it is also a fact that there are some religions that do NOT reject scientific facts. To have ignorant fools like Todd Aiken and Broun actually serving on science committees is a deeply embarrassing shame on this country and the people who vote for them.
Slandering people who are legitimately questioning this BLS report is going to backfire on you...."progressives".
Even people on your side of the fence have scratched their heads about the anomalous data from the Household Survey....are they "truthers" too?
Joe Nocera from the NYTimes slammed Republicans BUT let it slip that something was odd about the data.
Typical of FASCISTS the world over, questioning the establishment is forbidden and must be delegitimized or punished......aint that right, progs.
Op-Ed Columnist
Jobs Report: Cooked or Correct?
By JOE NOCERA
Published: October 5, 2012
"Hence, Point No. 2: there is, indeed, something a little strange about the way the country derives its employment statistics. It turns out that the statistics the bureau releases each month are generated by two different reports. One, called the establishment report, is a survey of businesses. That’s where the 114,000 additional jobs comes from.
The second is a survey of 55,000 households, where people are asked about their employment status. Extrapolating from the survey, the bureau concluded that an additional 873,000 people had found work in September. It is that number that brought the unemployment rate from 8.1 percent to 7.8 percent.
When I asked a bureau spokeswoman why there was such divergence between the two numbers, she said she had no idea. “The reports are totally separate,” she said."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/opinion/nocera-jobs-report-cooked-or-correct.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Clearly Shaw, it appears as if we are being prepped for a wholesale rejection of the legitimacy of the election if Barack Obama wins.
On question for Silver, Skud and their crew... does the government only lie and manipulate evidence and numbers when the Dems are in the White House?
Please tell us... we're all waiting...
Dear Madness,
Nothing in Nocera's report hints at the Administration's manipulating the numbers.
When GE CEO,Welch, was asked for evidence for his claim that "Chicago Thugs" may have tampered with the numbers, he said he had NONE.
Ridicule seems appropriate as a response to Welch's slander. And that IS slander on his part to suggest the administration cheated on the jobs numbers when he admits that charge is nothing more than his own partisan hunch.
Dave,
It has been evident for years that the GOP believes only they have the legitimate right to the White House and other branches of government. When evidence goes against their perceptions, their reaction is to yell FOUL! with nothing to back it up.
Madness... did you miss the first part of the article you referenced?
Just in case, here it is...
Point No. 1: the idea that a handful of career bureaucrats, their jobs secure no matter who is in the White House, would manipulate the unemployment data to help President Obama, is ludicrous. Jack Welch knows it, too; when I called him Friday afternoon, he quickly backpedaled. “I’m not accusing anybody of anything,” he protested.
And then maybe you missed the last line too...
Whether the Republicans like it or not, the economy is slowly getting better.
Nocera did not let anything slip, as you accused... he wrote it in an article... get real man... the extremists are becoming parodies...
Shaw, I said many, not all. Some of my "pals" agree, some disagree. Amazing eh?
I don't answer to dog whistles. Do you?
It's amazing news, considering how bad the crash was.
Only irrational people would expect the economy to come roaring back and be flourishing in 3 1/2 years when the problems deeply affected every part of our economy and was one of the worst in our country's history, and when the president has had no cooperation from the Republicans.
SF's carping about the jobs numbers are is nothing more than partisan bitching. The GOP and Romney have ZERO evidence to show that they could have done better.
What's driving SF and his friends nuts is the possibility that the American people will prove all their bitching wrong.
". . .anyone who thinks that political folks can manipulate the unemployment data are completely ignorant of how the BLS works and how the data are compiled.”
That perfectly describes former GE CEO Jack Welch, Limbaugh and the ethical voids at Fox, doesn't it?
There's evidence from past prolonged recoveries that some businesses are only willing to hold out for so long pushing their people to keep doing more with less. Eventually, they relent and do some more hiring. Also, some laid-off workers holding out for a new job that pays closer to what the one they lost paid have to give in and take a much-lower-paying job so they have something.
Re: Rep. Broun serving on the House Science Committee. That figures. After all, Rep. Michelle Bachmann, R-Minn, serves on the House Intelligence Committee.
Someone hard up opined, "This is the worst recovery on record."
This is the severest recession in the 80 years since the Great Depression. And, unlike the response in the 1930's, recovery efforts this time have been frustrated, weakened or completely blocked by cynical, selfish Republicans, from Washington right down to many state capitals.
In the 1930's, many more voters were smart enough to put and keep the ones who had hurt them out of power.
@Shaw << KP, helping Americans get back to work should be a goal we all support; and when the numbers improve, we should all be relieved for our fellow Americans. >>
Absolutey. I think most all of feel that way.
<< But it appears in some people's minds partisanship trumps citizenship. >>
That may be true for a small minority. But most of the hollering is because the survey lookis very peculiar. The system is quite complicated and there bound to be sampling errors with surveys. And this appears extreme.
If the unemplyment rate had gone from 8.1 to 8.4 with the wacky numbers in the survey causing the increase in unemployment percentages, not the actual payroll reporting (same as now but in the other direction) I am pretty sure you would be pointing that out along with the others who comment, "Axe" and the President.
I know I would comment on it just as I did here; trying to be objective and fair.
It's news. It's big news a couple weeks from the lection. It should be looked at closely. Not the payroll numbers, because they are unchanged. Not the U6 which is probably the most broad measure of unemployment. It measures the detached, unemployed, those who have given up looking, partimers with full time ambitions, etc.
The fact is the U6 was unchanged as well. Still at 14.7. So, the survey looks wacky. That's what the left and the right know. I am not a conspiracy guy but I know when things look funny. The next jobs report should shed some light. It's just a weird numbers game and I accept that for now. I don't need to tell anybody on the left to relax or on the right to chill.
It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys :-) There is a fight no matter what and both sides are plkaying the same game. One side is just as bad or good at the game as the other :-)
SWA: "Someone hard up opined, "This is the worst recovery on record."
That's a facile statement for anyone to make because it does not take into consideration all the issues that made this downturn one of the worst in our history--worse than the one Reagan faced--in fact, worse than anything since the Great Depression.
Expecting any president to make a full recovery in 3 1/2 years is pure fantasy and partisan hackery.
Anyone pushing that meme doesn't understand history or economics.
lol shaw...when thershities and racial redneck talk about you and your blog on other people's blogs...you are winning...you've done your work well...you're a buzz saw up their conservative asses...they can't stop reading you and piss-moaning about you...well done, shaw...
How long have we been looking at unemployment numbers with this (flawed) system?
Now it's an issue, that we must not accept these numbers?
The gathering process of the numbers seems to not have been rejected before.
More sour grapes from the losing side.
.
" And yet, there they are, eyes bulging, veins popping, apoplectic over the good news, and actually claiming the numbers were manipulated."
'Any one but Obama' crowd put their irrational white-hot HATRED of President Obama ahead of their feigned love of country. These knuckleheads are absolutely praying for a successful terrorist attack on USA in USA to bring about the downfall of Mr Obama. It does not matter to these types who or how many people are hurt/destroyed if in the end they can cheer that the 'usurper-in-chief' is brought down.
The fact of the matter is that OMitt is still the ultimate loser in this race. And the bobbleheads calling his debate performance a game-changer won’t alter the fact that the game has not been changed.
Just as Clint Eastwood’s conversation with an empty chair dominated the political conversation the day after OMitt’s all-important convention speech, it was OMitt’s threat to cut Big Bird’s career short that dominated the discussion since the "debate".
Needed to win = 270 ...
Ema Nymton
~@:o?
.
First the numbers were "cooked"
Now the numbers are a false representation, even though those numbers have been collected by the same process for years, yet, only a complaint about that collection process with this report.
These Republiscums are lying, to the end
Love the way these Republiscums try to cover by being neutral, third party, or non partisan, yet, push the Republiscum talking points.
The change in the unemployment number was three tenths of one percent--very small. But it is the psychological impact of seeing the number "7" that made the opposition go stark raving mad.
Funny, isn't it, that when the number moved back up a a few tenths of one percent a month or so ago, we didn't hear any of them howl FRAUD! Or hear some fat cat CEO talk about Chicago thugs manipulating the numbers, did we.
Well of course, that's because when the unemployment number went up slightly again, that suited their narrative. When it inches down and shows a bit of improvement, they become enraged that people are doing slightly better and that we are slowly coming out of the disaster George W. Bush and the GOP helped create.
When the opposition's hopes and ambitions rest on the failure of the president and his policies, any slight improvement in anything is an occasion of utter despair and explosive anger, followed by accusations of fraud.
It's all so pathetically predictable.
It's always a sad character who has to lie and cheat to win.
A negative personal value most Americans reject, as qualification for being a decent American.
There will always be the P.T. Barnum "suckers" who believe lies.
Worse are the ones who know they are lies, and chose to follow (buy) and support those lies, for political (power over people) gain.
Even worse are those who use false character assassination (race) to build bigoted fear against people who are, and believe differently than them.
The attacks against Obama are racially motivated. That's why their attacks are irrational in fact(s).
The attacks on American's right to freely vote, are nothing short of treason.
The racists screamed pretty hard when the number only went up .1. or .02%.
"Even worse are those who use false character assassination..."
Now that is something you personally subscribe to Wolfie Boy stevie. The expert at the tactic criticizing others even when they don't. What a hoot and vacuous wind bag you are Stevie.
NO, you ALWAYS insult, never discuss ideas.
Your comment here is a perfect example.
You had plenty to discuss from what I said, but no, you are a condescending, egotistical ass, so of course all you can do is insult people.
Back to your cult and your delusion that you have all the answers and everyone else is an idiot.
Truth is , you are the idiot.
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