Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

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Tuesday, September 30, 2014

FREE SPEECH, HATE SPEECH, AND THE COMPANY WE KEEP by (O)CT(O)PUS of The Swash Zone


By (O)CT(O)PUS

Our country is unique in practicing the most liberal form of free speech among Western democracies. Yet even in America, the right to free speech is by no means absolute. All rights have limitations; freedom imposes requisite responsibilities; civil and criminal laws govern our conduct. The right to free speech does not include:

Defamation, fraud, imminent incitement of lawless actions, perjury, pornography, sedition, theft of intellectual property, or violations of national security, as examples.

Our European counterparts across the pond enjoy similar freedoms. All member nations of the European Union are signatories to a convention on human rights that guarantees free speech, freedom of the press, freedom to associate, to assemble, and to demonstrate. Yet, here too are notable exceptions:
Free access to information does not abrogate a personal right to privacy. Hate speech, the propagation of hate groups, the denigration of any nation or any race or any ethnic group, any attempt to infringe upon the civil rights of any group, any promoter of genocide or any denial of a history of genocide … these are examples of prohibited speech punishable by law.
Our country does not impose such restrictions. In America, hate speech – no matter how abhorrent - is legal. Hate groups are free to associate, assemble and demonstrate in the streets. A rabid rabble may denigrate any nation or any race or any ethnic group at will. Holocaust denial - no matter how repugnant - is legal. There is no statutory right to privacy in our Constitution.

Political speech removes many restraints normally imposed under civil law. Defamation is legal. Deception, fraudulent attack ads, demagoguery, fear mongering, opponents demonizing opponents with half-truths and outright lies … these have become standard operating procedure. Money has become the currency of political speech; wealthy donors now wield more power and influence than voters; and ‘pay for play’ – formerly known as ‘graft’ – masquerades under cover of Super PACS. Yet, even political speech has limits: An informal code of community standards – and public disapproval - serves as a check on intemperate political speech.

As a medium of free speech, the Internet is the most uninhibited and unregulated of all - where anything goes. Trolls hiding beneath anonymous monikers will hijack and commandeer your discussion threads. Scammers will spam your email box with cons and malware; hackers will compromise your privacy; and cyber criminals will steal your identity. Schoolyard bullies have tormented vulnerable teenagers – driving some to suicide. Everywhere in Cyberspace, there are predators and stalkers, sadists and sociopaths. Without doubt, the Internet has devolved into a lawless and savage place. Which brings me to the subject of this post …
Sexual harassment and threats of sexual violence prompted Shaw Kenawe, author of Progressive Eruptions and long time member of this community, to suspend her web log.
This is not the first time sexual harassment has driven a woman off the Internet. Years ago, there was a well-publicized account of Kathy Sierra, a highly successful author of books on computer programming. The "Mean Kids" - men in the computer industry who were jealous of her success - threatened her with gang rape, gang violence, even death threats. Intimidated and terrorized, Kathy Sierra canceled all public appearances and removed her web log from the Internet.

Sadly, the same kind of criminal behavior that terrorized Kathy Sierra prompted Shaw’s decision. Her perpetrators originate from the far rightwing fringes of Cyberspace and use the pseudonymous monikers of Radical Redneck and Texas Stomp, among others. These email assaults on Shaw are NOT FIT FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION. Having seen them myself, I shall describe them only in brief: Hate messages, threats of sexual violence, allusions to smearing victims in excrement – illustrated with vile pornography.

Almost immediately, the far rightwing fringe noticed the absence of Progressive Eruptions from Cyberspace:
FreeThinke: “Chalk up another victory for censorious, cowardly, smug, closed, self-congratulatory minds … It's like MASTURBATION … How pathetically paranoid could you get?” (Deleted by blog administrator) 
There is nothing paranoid about Cyber-Bullying and threats of sexual violence. Incendiary partisan hate speech is just as contemptible as other forms of hate speech – especially when coercion and intimidation deprive victims of their safety and human dignity. Another rightwing fringe blogger issued a blanket denial:
Lisa: “Nobody here has ever made any direct threats” (Deleted by blog administrator).
Here is my reply of Friday, September 26, 2014 (edited for brevity):
Octopus: “Denial, denial, denial will score NO points under God or under Law. Since my last comment, I have received [Shaw’s] file of hate messages … Lisa, that makes not ONE or TWO but THREE followers of your blog who have menaced Shaw” (Deleted by blog administrator).
As you can surmise from the deletions noted in parenthesis, Lisa unceremoniously removed the entire post along with all 79 comments from the Internet. I will never know her thoughts or reasons; yet I wonder: Has Lisa ever experienced bullying or gender bias or sexual harassment in her lifetime? Fortunately, I was able to rescue one comment before it disappeared from Cyberspace:
FreeThinke: “The ever-present assumption of moral superiority on the part of leftists -- or any other identifiable faction like Jews and Fundamentalist Christians -- is not only DEPRESSING, it's NAUSEATING and INFURIATING  ...  If you can't take it, DON'T DISH IT OUT” (Deleted by blog administrator).
What is missing here? No word of empathy or support for the victim! No appeals to common decency! A dismissive attitude devoid of conscience! Please note the reference to ‘leftists … Jews, and Fundamentalist Christians.’ How odd, yet revealing.

Anyone who visits the far rightwing blogosphere enters an Anti-Universe where the conventions of civil discourse and logic no longer apply:
Never concede an argument (no matter how specious); always debunk opposing viewpoints (even when factual); always keep a strawman by your side (to paint your opponent in preposterously extreme terms verging on caricature); turn up the volume of tone-deafness; deny; play the victim card; attack, attack; and repeat often.
In far rightwing Cyberspace, let Projection be your ally:
Distort, misquote, harp, carp, nitpick, accuse, slander, insult, heckle, taunt, and get angry – all while accusing your opponent of behaving in precisely the same manner.
Hence, the impression of a friend who visits these faraway reaches of Space-Time:
Dave Miller: “I personally am sick and tired of being referred to by conservatives as a libturd, a socialist, a commie and whatever assorted names people can dream up to annoy” (September 17, 2013 at 11:43 PM).
Dave Miller: “I know it's off point, but seeing so many of the typical right-wing talking points, without any evidence to support their claims, pushed me to the edge …” (September 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM).
Which brings me to an obvious question: Why go there? Why subject yourself to bad faith arguments, sleazy ad hominem personal attacks, falsehoods, and never-ending verbal abuse! Why give them the satisfaction of skinning your goat! Sometimes I wonder … 
FreeThinke (August 3, 2014 at 9:36 AM):
When'er the Brits are driven away
Black tyrants often come to prey.
When White Men let their burden down
Savages will take the crown
Place it on their nappy heads […] 
How much blood might have been saved
If they'd stayed happily enslaved!
Waylon: “I don't accept at face value the official version of the 9/11 World Trade Center attacks … “Veterans Today” enumerates several points of the story which contradict the official version, including the mysterious "Dancing Israelis" …” (September 11, 2014 at 4:03 PM).
FreeThinke: “This country was conceived, designed and developed by WHITE, PROTESTANT CHRISTIAN MEN (…) As long as we stuck to THEIR concepts and abided by THER ideals, we did very well. Once the "Progressives" won a large share of public confidence, we've been plunged into incessant turmoil […] Coincidentally, the national IQ has been dropping like a stone ever since” (October 15, 2013 at 8:39:00 AM EDT).
Bizarre conspiracy theories, anti-Semitism, virulent racism: Do you read the same words on screen that I read? There are times when my conservative and libertarian friends – unburdened by a bleeding heart and starry-eyed naiveté - rise to the occasion with a keener sense of moral clarity than fellow liberals:
DMarks: “Your attempt to blame Jews is an echo of the old Nazi-touted "Protocols of the Elders of Zion” …" (September 12, 2014 at 7:54 AM).
Waylon: "… it's funny how "the chosen tribe" react when the topic is raised ...” (September 12, 2014 at 8:21 AM).
DMarks: “Waylon proved my point of his Nazi sympathies when he discussed the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion” (September 13, 2014 at 10:55 AM).
Dmarks, a conservative friend of this forum, deserves kudos for confronting anti-Semitism. Rational Nation USA, a libertarian friend of this forum, challenged the hypocritical projections of a writer whose nom de plume trades on the very idea of free thought - but turns all mirrors to the wall. The notorious FreeThinke bullies all comers alike:
GET OUT and STAY OUT. I DON'T WANT YOU HERE. GOT THAT? NOW MOVE ALONG” (September 10, 2014 at 5:31 PM).
Dmarks: “FreeThinke: Reading your comment to RN, I can see that free thinking is not so welcome here” (September 12, 2014 at 8:05 AM).
Free speech and freedom to associate are fundamental human rights ensconced in our Constitution. Yet, four years ago, a far rightwing rabble assailed a conservative writer for committing the unpardonable sin of befriending liberals. In defense of a friend, your intrepid cephalopod wrote:
Rightwing critics disparage the term political correctness as a Marxist plot whose aim is to undermine conservative values and impose social conformity … Yet, the same rightwing critics employ a far more sinister version of political correctness. They make use of litmus tests to enforce ideological orthodoxy in thought, speech, and personal associations. They will not hesitate to browbeat fellow conservatives into submission with condemnation and excommunication. How ironic! The rightwing accuses the left of using political correctness to impose social conformity; yet, the same rightwingers use coercive means to enforce groupthink within their ranks” (A Blessed Kristallnacht to All - January 6, 2010).
The Cringe Fringe. In my opinion, far rightwing radicals are not truly representative of a political movement. More reminiscent of a cult, they are a collective of Angry Birds, malcontents, misfits and soulless people in search of ritual scapegoats to blame for their misery. Their word salad of epithets – “libtard” and “libturd” for liberals and “”traitor” and “turncoat” for conservatives – is merely another form of projection. They shun any democratic exchange of ideas through the use of suppression, condemnation, ostracism, and elimination. Sometimes a Godwin Fallacy is not a fallacy. The Cringe Fringe is the Internet analogue of henchmen and street thugs - the adulators and adherents of demagogues and lunatic ideologues - that marked the final days of the Weimar Republic. What is their appeal? For an adrenaline rush, at least Hannibal Lector was a fictional character.

In yet another account of bullying, blackmail, and misogyny in Cyberspace, Katie McDonough reports:
[Anyone] familiar with abuser dynamics will recognize those threats for what they were: Manipulation. Domination. More abuse [my bold] ...  But then I have this other question, a question about the abuser. How do we get him help, or whatever the word is here since “help” doesn’t seem quite right” (Monday, Sep 29, 2014 02:59 PM).”
No doubt, we encounter predators and stalkers, narcissists and sociopaths everywhere in Cyberspace, and they are VERY DISTURBED PERSONS! Yet, we must tread carefully. The nexus between behavioral science and partisan politics is dangerous because psychobabble is yet another overly-used and often-abused form of ad hominem abuse. Please recall the former Soviet Union and the use of ‘psychiatry’ as an instrument of oppression.

The Internet is NOT an appropriate medium for psychotherapy; yet we are well within our rights to demand accountability. To borrow a quote from Rational Nation USA: “Shine a bright spotlight into a dirty corner and it will get cleaned up.” Here is what ALL OF US can do:


Discuss Cyber-Bullying openly and honestly.
Condemn abusive and offensive conduct.
Report unsolicited pornography to your Internet provider.
Report Cyber-Bullying to law enforcement.
And consult this website.

I ask all men on behalf of the women in their lives - mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, family and friends inclusive – to condemn these acts of misogyny and sexism in Cyberspace. Although we play a very small part in this global Internet community, we have a mutually shared responsibility to raise the standard of discourse and keep it clean. 

Incidentally, we can also choose better friends.

86 comments:

Dave Miller said...

Bravo...

J.M.S. said...

Wow shaw or octopus, whoever wrote this. Are you sure this Lisa character is a female because I can't imagine a woman would want to be associated with a pig like this rasical redneck a woman hater and harrasser. Can't she (he) see how this mkes her look like a woman hating enabler? This is very disturbing.

okjimm said...

HA! The blogosphere can really be an ugly place....as well as a forum for all sorts of interesting things, thoughts, experiences and occasional recipes.

My first encounter with blogs was back in about 2003....and a co-worker mentioned a rabidly anti- French site called, "Fuck France"...raw meat served regularly. It seems that some thought the French odd that they did not trip and fall over themselves in a headlong rush to follow the USA into Iraq. Of course, the thoughts were not deep,funny, insightful, constructive....just bullshit and fart jokes and such. I enjoy blogs....but the McBlogs do not do much for me....I can get all of it from the idiot down the hall if I want; no need to really going looking for it.

To engage in the type of behavior described here is cowardly,asinine, ........well kind of pathetic, really.

Lisa said...

Being you are all about free speech,I took that post down because it was getting ridiculous and you came there to complain about something I knew nothing about and am not responsible for.
Don't blame me for something others do.

Lisa said...

You guys on the left have a bad habit of putting people on display,using a blog to slander someone is not legal either and I appreciate it if you not
Use my name and make me the subject of your post especially since I had nothing to do with any of whatever it is you claim happened

Shaw Kenawe said...

Lisa,

There is no slander involved in reporting EXACTLY what you've allowed on your blog, Lisa.

Pretending you didn't know what your friends left on your own blog is no excuse for allowing it. But, in fact you did know about what they left on your blog, and even laughed at a lot of the sexually explicit threats and links. I have proof of it.

I think a little self-reflection is in order Lisa. Self-respecting people do not allow the sort of filth you've allowed FOR YEARS on your blog. I have it documented, and it goes back more than two years.

It is YOUR blog, Lisa, and yes, you are responsible for what is allowed there.Take a stand for decency. It'll make you feel good.

My grandmother used to tell me "Show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are."

Do you really want to be associated with people like Radical Redneck who leave links to sodomy and men fellating each other on your blog and who suggested ON YOUR BLOG that I should be raped by a gang of men? Even your friends are appalled at you for allowing the sort of disgusting descent into depravity you've allowed on your blog.

Be courageous, Lisa, and let your better angels guide you.

Lisa said...

Shaw what I stated is I am not responsible for what was said to you on your blog.
Nobody ever threatened you on my blog.
and FYI I took those down

Rational Nation USA said...

Lisa seems to be reacting to the events of the reality she helped to create exactly as she and many others readily and heartily accuse (and criticize) the President of doing.

Hypocrisy? I don't know, maybe it's ignorance. Whatever you call it there is no doubt that it is a lack of personal responsibility on the part of Lisa.

BTW (O)CT(O)PUS, well done.

Jerry Critter said...

Lisa said, "Nobody ever threatened you on my blog.
and FYI I took those down"

Good one Lisa. You took down those threatening posts that did not threaten. There's conservative truth for you.

Dave Miller said...

Lisa, you're living in false fact land again. You have allowed posters to use language that defames, is misogynistic, is filled with hate and doesn't even respond to your posts, or comments.

You've even said you're fine with trolls, the very people who leave these types of comments.

Lisa, I've never cursed anyone on your site, yet I've frequently been told to essentially STFU. Why is that, and why would any decent person allow that type of language to remain?

It is your blog. You are indeed not responsible for what people post. But you are responsible for what you allow to remain.

Most of us delete those types of comments as soon as we see them. Tell us why you don't.

Anonymous said...

I've been reading your blog for a while now. This is my first (and last if you close down the site) comment.

I am at a loss for words as to the horror, the terror, and the anger such an attack must have triggered. These men and the women who enable them... they scare me because there is no reasoning with them. In their minds people who don't fit into their cookie cutter mold are not fit to live on this earth.

As a person who regularly has been stuffed (unsuccessfully) into such a mold... Well, my tolerance for such behavior is nonexistent.

OK - I have to laugh a bit that Ms Lisa came here, to your site and had the nerve to say she's not responsible for the comments on HER BLOG! The most charitable thought I have is the commentators scare her as much as they do me and she lost control of them a long time ago.

Funny, in a way I feel sad for her. Riding the tiger never has a happy ending.

Shaw, I wish you the best. If you stay and continue I will be very happy and supportive. If you leave I'll think happy thoughts for you and be just as supportive. It's that whole For the Good of All and May it Harm None thing I live by.

Best of luck.

Connie

Infidel753 said...

Damn! Well, Shaw, obviously I hope you don't actually remove the blog or stop writing, but only you can decide what's the best course. Give yourself as much time as you need. And for goodness sake, you have absolutely no obligation to keep engaging with these people. There's no reason you should have to let their comments through moderation or respond to them.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Lisa: “You guys on the left have a bad habit of putting people on display, using a blog to slander someone is not legal either and I appreciate it if you not_Use my name and make me the subject of your post especially since I had nothing to do with any of whatever it is you claim happened

Lisa,
A blanket denial does not cover up a crime, so let me be perfectly blunt. There is no slander in anything I wrote, and I am one step ahead of you. I took the precaution of text capture and screen capture in anticipation that you or any of your cohorts might make a court case over this. Are you now prepared to press the claim that you never said this:

Lisa: “Nobody here has ever made any direct threats” (Deleted by blog administrator).

Are you prepared to repeat your claim that comments from one or more of your followers (especially the one who threatened Shaw and sent her unsolicited pornography which is a criminal offense) have never been posted on your blog:

Radical Redneck: “Better a teabag than a shitbag ...” (September 24, 2014 at 9:13 AM).

Just because a blogger removes a post and 79 comments from Cyberspace does not mean it has disappeared from Cyberspace without a trace. Like I said, there is always text capture and screen capture … plus a trail of other comments that refer back to the original deleted post:

FreeThinke: “The last time I looked, there were more than 70 replies there. Some were worth saving … (September 27, 2014 at 7:36 PM).

Lisa: “Thanks FT ,I tried to delete some comments but it became ,too daunting” (September 28, 2014 at 6:25 AM)

Every quotation in the above post has been duly recorded, documented and archived. Frankly, Lisa, your denials lack all credibility, and you are making yourself appear ridiculous.

Ema Nymton said...

.

First; welcome back Progressive Eruptions. Thank you for remaining active. The world is a better place as a result of your efforts.

____________~


"Which brings me to an obvious question: Why go there? Why subject yourself to bad faith arguments, sleazy ad hominem personal attacks, falsehoods, and never-ending verbal abuse! Why give them the satisfaction of skinning your goat! Sometimes I wonder …"

Why go there?

To laugh at the 'haters' as they wallow in their knowledge that the 'haters' are LOSERS (_BIG_TIME!_). The 'haters' know how much of a LOSER each is because they know they have lost to a negro. This eats at the 'haters.' So laugh at their misery.

Why subject yourself to bad faith arguments, sleazy ad hominem personal attacks, falsehoods, and never-ending verbal abuse!

To skewer them, it is fun. Perhaps because the 'haters' take themselves sooooo seriously, they leave themselves open to such well-deserved ridicule. Really.

Remember, who the 'haters' are. The 'haters' are flaccid and impenitent, they have nothing and they know it.

Yes, it wears to deal with the slime that is reactionary right-wing haters. But, at the same time, it is joyful to know that Progressive Eruptions eats at them to such an extent.

So again, thank you for your well reasoned, nuanced, and articulated discussions.

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Ema Nymton: “Why go there? … To skewer them, it is fun.

Ema,
I do visit web logs of The Cringe Fringe, and read their mad rants. I consider it a form of surveillance and intelligence gathering. But I do not comment. I do not taunt them. I do not engage them in conversation. Why?

Because there is something about cult behavior that must be taken into account: The Greek chorus, the constant invective and partisan hatred – this is the way they validate themselves. In our web logs, and those of our conservative and libertarian friends of independent mind, you will at least find a debate on issues – with actual facts, links and arguing points. Compare and contrast. These far rightwing web logs are virtual bashing contests - non-stop bombast with little else.

There is also a bullying dynamic at work: Safety in numbers and the reinforcement they receive from fellow bullies – all pushing and shoving against those dreaded liberals. I refuse to play that game. I consider it a giant waste of time. I taught my kids to avoid schoolyard bullies. If I give parental guidance, it is incumbent on me to act as a proper role model and not turn myself into hypocrite.

I prefer the company of friends and healthy people. I don’t need sickos in my life.

dmarks said...

Often the epithet of "far right wing" is overused. But not here. The self-described blog warriors and "tail-twisters" at issue here have openly white supremacist views.

Lisa, of course it or your blog and your choice. But still far your choice has been to make your blog a haven for porn links, KKK style racism, and rape humor. Do you really want that????

Do you really prefer the company of sickos, Lisa?

Anonymous said...

(O)CT(O)PUS wrote:


"There is also a bullying dynamic at work: Safety in numbers and the reinforcement they receive from fellow bullies"

Often times "safety in numbers" is an illusion created by a single blogger with multiple blogger IDs.

okjimm said...

RE; Lisa

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Wm Shakespeare

Re: Shaw
"Incidentally, we can also choose better friends."

"Won't You Be My Neighbor?"
Fred Rogers.

...... it is almost happy hour....any neighbors wanna go out for a beer?
okjimm

Jerry Critter said...

It is the "mob mentality" at work.

Lisa said...

Hey Octo Teabag or shithead is the same thing just a different choice of words. Keep flinging it until sonething sticks to the wall

Lisa said...

I meant I took down those links of the men fellating each other.
Like I stated before and this is the last time,I am not responsible for what others post on your blog

skudrunner said...

Lisa seems to be the victim of having a non-censored blog. I don't like moderation on a blog but I don't like the viscous attacks that seem to creep up when moderation is not in place. I

I have always said that swearing is just the lack of a good vocabulary and threatening, especially anonymously, is the lack of character.

I haven't seen Lisa attack others but I have seen her be attacked, seems to be a little contradiction by some.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Lisa, for the last time, I have documentation that shows Radical Redneck addressing me by name on YOUR blog and linking to photos of a woman being sodomized, a two women sodomizing each other with sexual devices, a woman with a man's head in her vagina, and a photo of a woman's genetalia that he sent to me, plus a rabid comment he left on your blog that suggests I should be raped by several men.

You can ignore, deny, and make excuses, but all of that filth is on your blog and it was addressed to me. You're responsible for it.

Today Radical Redneck left a comment on my blog suggesting that I made this all up to garner sympathy for myself and that he's been impersonated by someone who stole his name.

If he's the sort of person you enjoy keeping company with, that's your choice.

I have documentation that shows not only do you enjoy his pornography, but you've actually notified him when the links don't work. Then you have a jolly laugh over the smut he leaves on your blog.

Please don't come here and pretend you know nothing about nor are responsible for the filthy attacks on me that you allow on your blog.

I will leave you and your friends to enjoy those violent pornographic photos on your blog. I will never visit nor comment there again.

I would appreciate it if you would do me the same favor.

Thank you.

rockync said...

I've been away from the blogs for a while and damn! Looks like I walked in to a shit storm!
I am not surprised by the lack of civility and use of violent sexual content instead of intelligent discourse. It has become commonplace and even acceptable in this country to vilify anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with the rabid right. Anything goes, cartoons of our President in a noose, women being raped and tortured, beating of gays, burning out Jews, blowing up Muslims. This country has devolved into a swampy soup of creeps and crawlies bent on breeding more ignorant little trolls in their own image. Shaw, hang tough, we are all here and you are NEVER alone and even when I'm not hanging at the beach you know where to find me. We need to pull together during every attack on any one of us and send a strong and loud message that IT IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WILL NOT BE TOLERATED! I am tired of the bullshit that passes for "free speech". Free speech does not mean no consequences. We must continue to fight back always and never accept such bad behavior or ill treatment. Without us at the gate, this country will collapse into fright wing anarchy.

The Surfer Dude said...

A conservative blogger allows pornography on her blog and her friends are defending her right to wallow in the sewer? I can't decide if that's grotesque or hilarious. It's probably hilarious because aren't they the ones who run around telling other poeple what great examples of Christian love they are? I've been over there and read some of their comments defending Lisa's right to use pornography as a way to get her political points across. I guess I have to count that as hilarious, too. They are a grotesque little group of confused, illiterate whiners. Don't concern yourself any more with their nonsense. You're well rid of that sort of of abuse.

dmarks said...

Surfer.... right. Lisa's defense of her porn blog edges into Larry Flynt territory.

If Lisa wants to be known as a blogspot Larry Flynt, so be it.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

A brief comment about this exchange:

Lisa: “I am not responsible for what others post on your blog” (October 1, 2014 at 4:42 PM).

Shaw Kenawe: “I have documentation that shows not only do you enjoy his pornography, but you've actually notified him when the links don't work. Then you have a jolly laugh over the smut he leaves on your blog” (October 1, 2014 at 9:59 PM).

skudrunner: “Lisa seems to be the victim of having a non-censored blog … I haven't seen Lisa attack others but I have seen her be attacked, seems to be a little contradiction” (October 1, 2014 at 7:22 PM).

Lisa: Hey Octo Teabag or shithead” (October 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM).

French: “Ce qu'il fallait démontrer.” German: “Was zu beweisen war.” Latin: Quod erat demonstrandum [QED]. English: “What has been demonstrated.” I consider this our ‘Bingo’ moment.

Clearly, Lisa is not who or what she claims to be. She – or he – can be ANYBODY – even Radical Redneck or Rusty Shackleford or Texas Stomp. Who knows for sure? Her Pinocchio moniker reminds me of the Epimenides Paradox about the Cretan of Knossos who uttered this immortal phrase: "All Cretans are liars." It is a paradox of self-reference when we ask: “Is it possible for Epimenides – or Lisa – to have spoken the truth?”

CASE CLOSED!

skudrunner said...

I stand corrected and you are right in you can be whoever you want to be and you are judged by the company you keep.

Dervish Sanders said...

Looks like this commentary is generating a lot of laughs over on another blog, the proprietor of which has previously noted that Octopus literally makes his skin crawl. And he's done more than one commentary disparaging Liberals he does not like, Shaw included. And one of the commenters there who is also "a friend of this forum" said "Shaw has no integrity", that she "has become quite unhinged lately" and that Shaw "sent me an email with glowing praise of you (Rusty)".

This is the blog where Rusty feels most at home and talks about his "how wide is Shaw's ass contest" frequently. Although (full disclosure) both of the "a friend of this forum" did tell Rusty he was "way out of line". The proprietor of that forum published the Rusty comments and said nothing to discourage the comments.

BTW, I admit I am more biased against this "friend", but I have been subject to quite a few dishonest comments from him. This "friend" says both bin Laden and Stalin are "heroes" to me, I defend antisemitism, support sex crimes against children, am an apologist and supporter of domestic violence, and that I strongly favor abortionists being given the power of... executioner... by killing children after they are born out of nothing more than a sick thrill of bloodlust (Link).

Robert D. said...

Just a note to add to shaw's evidence onhow sick these fringe conservatives are.

DS left link to someone who calls himself Contra Reilly blog wehre Will Hart allows his friend Rusty to call Shaw the "Fat C**t From Boston."

The Rusty S., Radical R. and even the enablers like Lisa and Will Hart are the worst examples of depravity I've seen in a long time.

There is no reason for those attacks on Shaw. She writes her opinions on her own blog and is no more a partisan than any other person who writes from a point of view.

There's something deeply sick about those individuals who allow attacks such as these on not just women, but anyone. Shaw's writing has brought these insects out of their rotten wood for all the world to see their vicious, sexist, sexual attacks on a woman. And those who allow it are just as guilty as those who write them.

They disgust me and should disgust all reasonable human beings.

dmarks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Dervish,
It appears you missed the point:

Sexual harassment and threats of sexual violence prompted Shaw Kenawe, author of Progressive Eruptions and long time member of this community, to remove her web log from Cyberspace.”

“Having seen [the email] myself, I shall describe them only in brief: Hate messages, threats of sexual violence, allusions to smearing victims in excrement – illustrated with vile pornography.


Sending threats of violence via email is a criminal offense. Sending unsolicited pornography via email is a criminal offense. Our conservative and libertarian friends have risen above partisanship to condemn this conduct. I suggest you get with the program!

Dervish Sanders said...

I never "praised" Stalin. I would never praise Stalin. The assertion is ridiculous. And, if I actually was "caught", perhaps the person making the claim could produce a link? Where did this "catching" take place?

Annie Of Watertown said...

THe woman who runs that porn blog, Lisa? How does she justify that? Is it all fun in her mind? would she think its all in fun if Shaw allowed some lowlife to suggest Lisa be raped? or if Shaw allowed a jerk to put Lisa's name on her blog linking to a woman being sodomized? Is that Lisa and her friends idea of fun? And who are the people defending her and what she's done? Don't they have wives, daughters, sisters or mothers? What if Lisa did to them what she did to Shaw? What a disgrace. These people don't respect women. It's hard to believe Lisa is even a woman because I don' know any woman who would stand by and see this done to another female. We understand why certain men get their kicks out of sexually going after women they don't even know. Normal women find that disgusting and that's why its hard to believe "Lisa" is a woman. As I say its disgusting.

Annie

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dervish Sanders, I ask you to please not draw dmarks or anyone else into a discussion that has nothing to do with this post. You and dmarks can sort it out at your blog. Thanks.

Shaw Kenawe said...

PS. I will respond to everyone's comments later. Thanks for your patience.

dmarks said...

My most recent comment, which unfortunately took the troll bait and went off on the unwanted tangent, had been deleted by myself. Sorry, Shaw.

The point I will keep and bring forward from the deleted comment is that my blog has been faced with numerous attempts to fill it with pornography. I filtered, deleted it all. It is not hard to do. The only reason to have such filth posted on your blog is if you want it to be there. Lisa's excuses don't fool anyone.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Dervish: “ I never .... I would never ... And, if I actually was "caught" …

Consider yourself “caught.” This post is NOT ABOUT YOU and your peeves in Cyberspace! It is about HARASSMENT and THREATS aimed at Shaw.

This post is also about a kind of hyper-partisanship that HURTS … about anger and resentment that causes good people to forget their COMMON DECENCY and HUMANITY. There is no reason to heckle, jeer, provoke, and taunt people just because you were misquoted or slighted. It makes you NO BETTER THAN THE CULT.

Lisa said...

Sorry Shaw I am not responsible for what people post .
If I didn't delete them doesnt mean I advocate it.
There hasn't been any of those links left up there for awhile.
I took down the last post if you noticed because it got out of hand

Shaw Kenawe said...

Documentation, Lisa, from your blog:

2.
Radical RedneckAugust 22, 2011 at 11:26 PM
Shaw has never looked better!


Reply


3.
LisaAugust 24, 2011 at 7:54 AM
OMG RR.




Shaw Kenawe said...

BTW, Lisa, I have many, many more of what I pasted above from your blog, all captured and documented, and the pornography from Radical Redneck you saw and laughed at and allowed is WORSE than what I documented above.

You have to face the fact that you welcomed Radical Redneck and his filth and turned your blog over to his depravity, with alacrity.

Don't blame anyone else for turning your blog into one that degrades women. That was your choice.

I've always believed, despite our differences in politics, that you had a moral compass--you have, afterall shown compassion toward animals, and that's commendable. Why you couldn't tap into that compassion and decency for a person of your own sex is a mystery. Are differences in politics so important that they override human decency? It appears, from what you've allowed Radical Redneck to do on your blog, that they are.

I'm so sorry for you.

Lisa said...

Aug 24 2011?
I said OMG for the shock value,it wasn't a threat.

Duckys here said...

She – or he – can be ANYBODY – even Radical Redneck or Rusty Shackleford or Texas Stomp.

=======
Bingo!!!

All of the above but why stop there.

Duckys here said...

@skudrunner --- Lisa seems to be the victim of having a non-censored blog.

-----
Wrong, she censored me today.

At no time was I vulgar or profane.

Don't know what pressed her button.

Anonymous said...

in the upside down world of blogging we live in the tea baggers call your blog vile... while lisa puts up porn and sexual threats to women on her blog and they think she's a victim?...i've read this blog for quite a while and i never saw the kind of dirt here that lisa allows...but in a tea bagger's world anything they do or say is good anything a liberals say or do is evil...hint...don't visit the crazy people...hope you get back to blogging...

D.M.

Titan you're famous! said...

"If you lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas."

Proverb. If you associate with bad people, you will acquire their faults.

Dave Miller said...

As if to illustrate how the extreme right thinks, here's another recent blog excerpt that I found breath taking...

“Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement — guilty of walking while black or driving while black, judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness,” he [Obama] said. Then the blogger adds... Can anybody jump to any wild conclusions of WHY this is the case? Anybody think it’s just because they’re Black? Even Chris Rock says “Just be polite and give the policeman your information!” Why’s that so difficult to understand? After a few years of politeness, I wonder if cops just might stop being fearful and targeting innocent Black kids?

The blogger sees the admitted fact that police stop and target innocent people as the fault of the targeted as opposed to those doing the targeting?

Years ago my wife's uncle was very polite as he was dragged out of his car simply because his car was deemed "too nice" for a black man. Was this his fault because he was impolite? Was it his fault because other black people in the 60's in Los Angeles were not polite?

No, it was because the police were acting in a racist way.

You can imagine the how surprised the cop was to learn that the man he just pulled over for no reason was one of the first black officers for the Los Angeles County Sheriffs and was based in the same station.

My wife's uncle politely gave the racist patrolman a pass.



Anonymous said...


Bottom line is that we have a bunch of far rightwing nitwits who are going to either get us killed either by their climate change denial, or ignorance of how disease is spread,

And all these rightwing nitwits can do is invade a Conservative blog with filthy language and porn, and the owner of the blog won't take responsibility?

Fascist-like behavior by those who who are posting that porn, trying to shut Shaw up,

Don't let them do it.

dmarks said...

Anon: We can disagree on the highly controversial, off-topic political issues you raised above. And in good conscience, we can disagree on those specific issues, and should be able to without being falsely smeared as a "fascist".

But there is no disagreement on the vile stuff at Lisa's blog... and how Shaw has shown with specific quotes that Lisa's claim of ignorance of it isn't true at all: Lisa has been cheering and encouraging it all along.

Anonymous said...

@Dmarks,

I wrote that Fascist behavior is in using abusive porno to intimidate Shaw. Try again.

dmarks said...

No need to "try" as your correction has clarified your previous unclear comment.

dmarks said...

Anyway, I've seen "Ducky's Here" on blogs for years. I have seen him express opinions, of course, but never anything offensive. Never anything that would cause any remotely reasonable blogger to delete him!!!

That Lisa would delete one of his comments shows she is losing her grip....

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Words from your intrepid cephalopod: "With friends like that, who needs anemones!"

dmarks said...

Octo: What happened to your "8 legs good, two legs baaaaad" motto?

Radical Bluestockings said...

From a commenter named "Beverly Hightower" on Lisa's blog:

"Obama changed the country into Sodom & Gomorrah..."

No, B.H., Lisa has changed her blog into a sodomy picnic zone. She and Radical are porn queens and kings. (Except when she gets caught and deletes her links to men fellating each other, as she did just this week.)

Lisa has changed blogging into Sodom and Gomorrah!

okjimm said...

//"With friends like that, who needs anemones!"//

ha!
Friends are like balloons, if you stab them they die.

friends are like snowflakes....if you piss on them they disappear.

Friends buy you food....best friends eat your food.

Friends are like guitars....I don't have a guitar.

Friends...you laugh, I laugh. You cry, I cry....you jump off a bridge, I go get a boat and save your stupid ass.

Flying Junior said...

Well...

Nuff said.

Hopefully Shaw will shut down commenting fairly soon.

dmarks,

Hope to tangle or agree with you some time soon. Thank you for your service.

FJ

Anonymous said...

Lisa be like PORN QUEEN!

Rado Ragni said...

Here's one for Lisa's blog.

Shaw Kenawe said...

OK. Enough. I think she got the message.

KP said...

ROCK ON, Shaw.

KP said...

Dave Miller; you are part of the good stuff.

KP said...

<< You are indeed not responsible for what people post. But you are responsible for what you allow to remain. Most of us delete those types of comments as soon as we see them. >>

Dave, why do you and others here aggravated with Lisa's editorial control of her blog continue to visit it? I have never visited it, so it is a legit question.

On the other hand, I used to contribute here quite a bit. But it got a bit angry; so I took a break.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

dmarks: “Octo: What happened to your "8 legs good, two legs baaaaad" motto?

Truth be told, I could never understand the appeal of bilateral symmetry and the tricks played on the bicameral mind, which experiences the world only in terms of binary opposites - right versus left, day versus night, good versus evil, us versus them, and raw versus half-baked – where everything is experienced in stark black or white terms with no subtle shade of grey in between. These are the dialectics of language-enabled primates. Personally, I prefer the 360 degree view - which is actually 45 degrees multiplied by eight.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Dmarks,
I forgot to mention: Cephalopods are really, really good at camouflage. Last night, I sneaked into Lisa's house camouflaged as a puppy, climbed atop her computer desk, and disguised myself as a tape dispenser.

Sheesh ... the look on her face! But I got the goods on her. It would even make Radical Redneck blush.

dmarks said...

Octo: You and spiders both...

Rational Nation USA said...

When politics become more important than common sense there is trouble. We have arrived at that stage methinks.

KP, a wise decision, maintaining a low level of drama in ones environment it healthy. Good to see you back.

Dave Miller said...

Thanks KP... For me, I still believe in some intrinsic goodness within everyone and remain convinced that there must be a way for people to connect on that level, even if only for some dialogue.

I just don't want to give that up. But I am afraid that the time is coming when I will have to make a change.

Sadly, as you pointed out, sometimes even here it gets too heated. Because of my schedule, one thing is certain, I just don't have net access everyday, so I get forced breaks.

Next week I leave for two weeks of medical & development work in the mountains of Oaxaca, so no matter what happens, I'll miss it.

And I'll be very fortunate... not for the lack of access, rather because I'll be doing what makes my heart sing.

(O)CT(O)PUS said...

Dave: “I still believe in some intrinsic goodness within everyone …

Dave,
Sometimes these abuses witnessed in Cyberspace cannot be explained away by mere lapses in judgment, lapses in mental health, lapses in ethics, or lapses in spirituality.

Sometimes we are looking squarely in the face of PURE MALICE! The threats to Shaw meet this definition.

There also must be accountability – ethical, legal, moral, and spiritual. I believe that time has come for a fearless moral inventory … one that is long overdue!

dmarks said...

Dave Miller said: "Next week I leave for two weeks of medical & development work in the mountains of Oaxaca, so no matter what happens, I'll miss it. "

I think you are the best of us. making more a difference in the world than any of these comments/commenters.

Fortunately, that includes all these agitating basement-dwellers.

Dave Miller said...

I agree Octo... just like someone who has committed a crime has to be held accountable...

Doesn't mean I have to like it, or give up on them.

My faith/religion/God never gives up on me, even at my worst.

I just keep trying...

Jus' Brayin' said...

Just when you thought that these right baggers have sunk as low as they can get, they break their own record and come out with something like what they've posted on Lisa's blog, trying their lowest best to discredit Shaw and shut her down. .

As is obvious even to those dullards there and elsewhere that there is not a decent person among them.

Ben Sayin' The Most Interesting Things in the World said...

Truth be told, I could never understand people who complain about something and never stop.

Case example, Lisa's porn blog "Who's Your Daddy. Unfortunately, a bunch of hypocrites there have been bitching and moaning about Lisa being caught promoting pornography and sexual violence against women, yet they still complain about Shaw and octopus exposing the filth, they're aangry and complain and blame Shaw for what Lisa does?.. What is it about these people that makes them so weird?

Like someone said, shine some light on the filth Lisa has allowed on her blog and the people she allows to do it and they'll scatter like so many insects.

billy pilgrim said...

hi shaw, i've been going back and forth reading the comments. if you've been sent pornography that is quite nasty but on the other hand it shows you've hit a nerve.

am i to understand that you've taken a break from progressive eruptions due to the venom going back and forth?

Anonymous said...

For years you have been calling conservatives every name in the book. I guess you define nastiness by legal definitions instead of just being nice. You reap what you sew. You can dish it out but can't take it. Thin skinned people should not enter the political blog world. Blog about sewing, cooking, or some other hobby that won't earn you enemies. They achieved what they wanted, you stopped blogging. Either stop the crocodile tears and start blogging again, or leave permanently.

Shaw Kenawe said...

First of all Anonymous @2:22, you obviously come to my blog and have read it for quite a while. Why didn't you have the courage to name yourself?

I will answer your charges not for your edification but to set the record straight. Other people of your stripe have come here and accused me of the same things you have.

No. 1

In all the years I've blogged, I freely admit to having a strong liberal bias and to stating my opinions with passion. I freely admit to going after politicians, pundits, commenters, and others who are in the news with rebuttals and with whom I have disagreements. That's what bloggers do -- conservative and liberal --they express their opinions all the time.

Every political conservative blogger on the internet is not shy about calling people names or having what you label "nasty" opinions. Where do you think we've read the labels "libtard," "libturd," "Ovomit," Commie, Marxist, America-hater, etc.? That's the internet and its level of political discourse.

No.2

You, Anon, are dishonest in the extreme if you claim I've done what Lisa of "Who's Your Daddy" has done. She has allowed pornographic, SEXUAllY EXPLICIT and degrading attacks on me on her blog and even encouraged her chief attacker RADICAL REDNECK to do so. How? By not deleting the filth and even notifying him when a link to the porn didn't work. That sort of slime has never been on my blog, nor would anyone I know who has an ounce of decency in her allow that extreme sort of trolling and taunting by one of her commenters.

So NO, I DID NOT DO THAT nor does my political disagreements with people in the news warrant that sort of disgusting and criminal retribution. LISA ALLOWED IT.

No. 3

My political disagreements and RADICAL REDNECK'S pornographic attacks on me are not a matter of "reaping what you sew[sic]" as you stated.

If you believe women deserve to be sexually humiliated and degraded in public as "pay-back" for their political opinions, then there's plenty wrong with you, not with me. And that I should learn to "take it" as I "dish it," is just plain stupid, since I've never dished out sexual threats nor used sexually explicit language and photos to "get back" at people I disagree with.

RADICAL REDNECK has sent unwanted pornography to my email here at P.E., and on a public blog, he suggested that I should be raped. RADICAL REDNECK is a deeply disturbed man who takes delight in sexually humiliating women. How some of you people on the right tolerate this is beyond my understanding.

Thankfully, not all conservative/libertarian men think this is acceptable. I commend their courage and decency in the face of their confreres' cowardice.

So, Anon, I think you look foolish coming here to blame me for the smut and harassment directed at me that Lisa allowed RADICAL REDNECK to put up on her blog.

I don't know if you're a man or a woman; but if you're a man, you certainly had a mother, and maybe you have a wife, daughter, or sister. How would you react to this being done to them?

Perhaps next time you should learn the facts before shooting off your mouth.

J.M.S. said...

I've noticed shaw that no conservative women have condemned Lisa's and Rednecks disgusting acts. Those who remain silent are part of the problem and by their silence approve of it.

Flying Junior said...

Reap what you sew?

What a dumbass!

Robert D. said...

Shaw, your "friend" Free Thinke posted this on"Who's Your Daddy"

"None of you leftists want peace, concord or civility; your pretensions to the contrary are with rare exceptions hypocritical and manipulative. What you do want is endless strife. You THRIVE on DISSENSION -- the uglier the better."

This is posted by the man who hosted HATE WEEK on his blog where his friends left comments FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK bashing, trashing, insulting and degrading you. All because he claimed he was "experimenting" and "holding up a mirror."


Capt. Fogg said...

Shaw,

Feeling feisty this morning, I thought I'd drop by the ISIS blog and try to convince them to get right with Jesus, but that wasn't a big enough challenge. . .

But really I log ago gave up the notion that having the facts straight and a 100 point IQ advantage would win an argument with a shit slinging baboon such as hang out on these Liberal Bashing blogs. They don't even listen and the blonde with a dildo for a nose could be anyone.
As the now famous New Yorker cartoon said "on the internet, no one knows you're a dog?

So anyway, as far as I'm concerned, relief is just a mouse click away. Don't give them a platform.

dmarks said...

I'd go with what the Capt. said. You've shown a flashlight unto the silverfish and cockroaches that lurk in the rotten wood under the sink that is Lisa's blog. You've sent them scurrying, and they continue to mistake waving their antennae for wit.

Just keep blocking them from your blog.

Rational Nation USA said...

FreeThinke, regardless of his intellect, education, cultural refinement, and religiosity is pompous hypocrite of the highest order.

His strident support of Lisa and her (his) bigoted porn blog has simply put a brighter spotlight on his already questionable character.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Thank you all for your comments on this subject. I especially thank (O)CT(O)PUS for his time and efforts in addressing Lisa and her friends on this issue.

We all have strong opinions and ideas about politics; but when people are attacked with sexual threats and pornography, that action leaves the realm of opinions and becomes criminal.

Sadly, Lisa didn't have the ability to understand that what Radical Redneck and Rusty Shackleford (I believe they're one and the same) did was degrading to women and criminal.

I'm sorry for her, but I have no such sentiment for Radical or Rusty. They knew exactly what they were doing when they attacked me with sexual threats and pornographic harassment.

I have no knowledge of whether or not they have relationships with women. If they do, I'm sorry for those women in their lives. Both Radical Redneck and Rusty Shackleford have shown themselves to be without any respect for females.

I have collected their threats and attacks and will send them along to the proper authorities for them to decide on what to do.

KP said...

Good to hear from you Dave. You won't see this comment for awhile as you are actually working your butt off to help people in the mountains of Oaxaca.


<><>

To recap KP said: Dave, why do you and others ... aggravated with Lisa's editorial control of her blog continue to visit it?


<><>


Dave said: Thanks KP... For me, I still believe in some intrinsic goodness within everyone and remain convinced that there must be a way for people to connect on that level, even if only for some dialogue.I just don't want to give that up.

<><>

Great answer. I find myself doing the same.

In my experience, at some point my personal health vis-à-vis the internet trumps hope for lost ideologues.

Each of us has finite energy and what you are doing in the mountains of Oaxaca matters.

I am pretty sure Lisa is going to be all right; albeit a bit worn out by blogging.


Awhile back, my pal Shaw, referred me to some Irish literature by Flan O’Brien.


He wrote, “If you hit a rock hard enough and often enough with an iron hammer, some mollycules of the rock will go into the hammer and contrariwise likewise.”


This is probably true in most arenas outside of political blogging done by ideologues.


To be clear, mollycules (sp) are shared, but in my view they are human, not political.

KP said...

Hang in there Shaw. Best wishes.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Thanks, KP. I'm doing well. And I love knowing you appreciate Flan O'Brien. I just saw that you left an email. Sorry for not responding sooner. Will get back to you soon.