Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston



Tuesday, March 14, 2017

TRUMP ON HEALTH CARE: He promised you everything but will deliver nothing


Remember how the Goopers lost their coconuts because President Obama said about Obamacare, "If you like your health care plan you can keep it?"

I have a right winger who's been coming to P.E. since President Obama's administration to remind us of that gawdawful LIE!

But he's silent on the gigantic LIES by the Liar-in-Chief, Donald J. Trump:

Trump vowed that his plan would provide “insurance for everybody” — unlike the Affordable Care Act. Insurance plans, Trump promised, would have “much lower deductibles.” And price, he said, won’t be an issue. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”

From the NYTimes:

"The Congressional Budget Office said on Monday that next year 14 million fewer Americans will have insurance if the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, is repealed and replaced on the terms the president is seeking. That tally would rise to 21 million in 2020 and 24 million in 2026. By then, the total number of uninsured Americans would reach 52 million. 

 And for what? 

To give a gigantic tax cut to wealthy Americans. According to the C.B.O. the loss of health care coverage under the Republican plan stems largely from gutting Medicaid for low-income Americans, even though Mr. Trump has said he would not cut Medicaid. 

Coverage would also be lost in part because insurance would become unaffordable for millions as subsidies are withdrawn, despite Mr. Trump’s claim that coverage would become “much less expensive and much better.”

President Obama on the ACA:  "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it."  That was considered an unforgivable LIE by the Goopers.

But there's silence on all these blistering lies and fake promises by the Liar-in-Chief and his administration spokesliars:

(h/t Politico)

 1)     “We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”  LIE

2)     “I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid”   LIE

3)     “We don't want anyone who currently has insurance to not have insurance.”  LIE

4)     “I firmly believe that nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we’re going through.”  LIE

5)     “I am going to take care of everybody … Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.” More recently, Trump has promised that repeal will end with “a beautiful picture.”  LIE

Jonathan Chait explains why this non-health care legislation by the GOP will be a national disaster for Americans and the GOP:

This proposal, the centerpiece of the new all-Republican government’s legislative agenda, is an expression of its shared philosophy. Donald Trump has altered the Republican stance on trade and immigration, not to mention self-enrichment by the First Family and the routine propagation of conspiracy theories by the chief executive. But he has hewed closely to the party’s conviction that the central problem in American life is a government that redistributes too much from the privileged to the underprivileged. 

 It remains to be seen whether enough Republicans have the courage of their convictions to follow through on this plan. Depriving millions of Americans access to medical care would impose pain more directly and widely than any legislative act in modern U.S. history.



Jerry Critter said...

Well, it is cheaper to bury people than it is to insure them. That's Trumpcare for you.

Dave Miller said...

Trump and his comments, or non comments on health care access in the US are certainly troubling, as are the comments from many in the GOP.

He has thought given us a few reasons to trust what he says. He said he'd ban Muslims and he is in fact trying to do just that. He said he would drain the swamp and depending on your understanding of swamp, he seems to be doing that cutting out layers of bureaucracy in the federal government. he told people his type of SCOTUS nominee and he has delivered.

But as we have seen, there are many others where he is at best challenged.

I am not willing to bet where he is gonna come down when all the shooting is done. He's literally been all over the map.

What I am willing to guess is that real access to health care, as measured by an ability to pay, will be more limited after this Congress gets finished.

I understand the conservative argument that forcing people to buy insurance is taking away their liberty to go without. But would they support a doctors, or hospitals right to demand payment before treatment if their kid or relative was dying and needed that treatment?

No, of course they wouldn't, and that is the problem.

In a country where we have made the decision that everyone gets treatment, regardless of ability to pay, how to financially protect the citizenry and health care providers from financial ruin if people choose badly?

My question is this for the GOP and conservative partisans who are now trumpeting universal access whereby everyone can choose on their own to have insurance. "How do you define real access? Is it the mere existence of insurance, or is it affordable?"

That's what I want to know...

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave: "He has thought given us a few reasons to trust what he says. He said he'd ban Muslims and he is in fact trying to do just that."

S.K. The "new" travel ban is still a Muslim ban and it is unAmerican and unConstitutional. None of the 6 countries in the ban have produced domestic terrorists. I'm not impressed with a president who defiles our ideals and laws.

Dave, "He said he would drain the swamp and depending on your understanding of swamp, he seems to be doing that cutting out layers of bureaucracy in the federal government."

S.K.: I don't think "draining the swamp" means filling it with Goldman Sachs, Exxon-Mobile, and other billionaires, many of whom have no experience in the cabinet jobs they were appointed to. That just filling the swamp with different reptiles.

Dave: "he told people his type of SCOTUS nominee and he has delivered."

S.K.: That's hardly ground-breaking action, since every single president who's had to nominate a judge to fill a vacant SCOTUS seat has nominated someone who shares his ideology. Every president has done that. President Obama did it twice.

I'm holding Trump to the promises he gave many, many times on how he will deliver health care that will be many times better than the ACA. If he continues to promote the GOP plan, as he is doing, then we know that Trump's word is worthless.

We're still waiting to see the "evidence" for the wire "tapp" Trump said, as fact, was planated in Trump Tower.

If Trump can't produce it, then again we'll have more proof of his worthless blatherings and tweets.

By lying and making false accusations, Trump is destroying any trust Americans had in the office of the president, and he is destroying any trust our allies had in Washington.

Jerry, the Goopers care nothing for the middle class and the poor. I hope those people who voted for Trump are paying close attention to his administration's crusade to impoverish them and kick them off of the health care the ACA provided for them.

Rational Nation USA said...

It is time to consider a national Medicare for all with some modifications and a "premium" increase, perhaps to $250-300 per individual per month. For the truly less fortunate a graduated nominal monthly cost from $0.00 for the indigent to the full cost based on income.

And here I'm a fiscal conservative sounding like like a liberal. Maybe when BS partisan ideology and labels go by the wayside, they won't, the country will finally get down to business.

Not going to hold my breath.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, we are the third most populous country in the world. We have a large enough population to be able to provide affordable health care to all of our citizens. We are the only western democracy that doesn't do this. Why? How can our citizens enjoy "Life, Liberty and the pursue Happiness" if they can't afford health care. Everyone at some point in his or her life needs health care either for illnesses or for accidents that happen to them. What is it about this simple truth that the present GOP doesn't get.

There's nothing wrong with your understanding that something must be done. Richard Nixon, a Republican, saw the need, and he was a fiscal conservative, but not crazy (well except for his paranoia that did his presidency and him in). We all know that since the time of Teddy Roosevelt, presidents have seen the need for health care legislations for our citizens.

Shaw Kenawe said...

"pursuit of Happiness"

Dave Miller said...

Les... do you think we should means test that? For example, why should a guy like Bill Gates get a price break? Or Warren Buffet?

We used to believe, at least during Ike's tenure, that the well off had a responsibility to pay for higher taxes/fees for the good of the entire country. We also believed that those who chose to live in the cities, should pay more for certain services like the telephone so we could keep the cost accessible for the rural folks and those with less money.

I am at a loss to understand why those broad principles are so adamantly opposed and dismissed as the opposite of freedom by many on the right.

Shaw... I am not defending the guy, or agreeing with him. just saying that for a significant group of people, he certainly has kept his word. Whether we like it or not.

And yes, we should hold his feet to the fire on health care, but don't hold your breath. He cares not one whit about yours, or my vote. His votes are the ones that see the ACA as robbing people of their liberty to make stupid choices and leave others holding the bag for those decisions.

When one of theirs has cancer and the bill comes in at $250,000 or more, how will their freedom to not be forced into buying insurance work out? It will work out with higher premiums and costs for those of us who did the right thing and acted responsibly.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave, I know you weren't defending Trump, I just gave an opposing opinion to what his followers consider "keeping his word."

I have always said that Trump has no core values, and that is clearly evident in his acceptance of the GOP's "health care" plan that will destroy the middle and poor classes and enrich the wealthy. If Trump had any moral convictions, he would have thrown the GOP AHCA back at the GOP House and told them it is NOT what he PROMISED his supporters.

Trump is a moral vacuum. The only things that matter to him are acquiring more wealth for himself and his family and grabbing women by their genitals. That's our American president.


Anonymous said...

Your side photos and writings show that you are one of the paranoid Chicken Little's who believe Trump is another Hitler. Then you have only one obligation as an American patriot (as you claim to be) and that is to kill Trump, even at the sacrifice of your own life. Put your life where your mouth makes these Hitler claims, otherwise you are nothing but a coward.

Jerry Critter said...

The GOP wants you to believe that the cost of healthcare is the cost of insurance. In reality, insurance just pays some of the healthcare costs. You pay the rest. Therefore, one way to bring down the cost of healthcare insurance is to cover fewer health issues. Another way is higher deductibles. In the end, all these things do is shift costs to the consumer, and make no impact on the cost of healthcare itself.

We pay twice what everybody else pays for healthcare because healthcare providers can charge twice as much. Our government allows them to, and distracts everybody by making it appear the solution to our healthcare crisis is better insurance.

Insurance is not the problem.

The rest of the world has figured this out. Governments provide a highly structured system to pay healthcare costs, single payer in some cases, in cooperation with private insurance companies in other cases. Then they have attacked the cost problems, and as a result, they pay half of what we do.

It is time for us to do what the rest of the world is already doing.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Sometimes I get a comment in Comment Moderation that is so inane, inaccurate, and demented that it actually makes me laugh out loud. The comment by Anonymous @2:21 is one such example.

I've often wondered what kind of people voted for Trump, and Anonymous @2:21 answered that for me. The sort of people who voted for Trump are, for the most part -- not ALL --sloppy thinkers, flaky readers, blind observers, IOW not very bright or interested in facts or reality.

Nowhere on this blog or on my sidebars is there anything that compares Trump with Hitler, nor do I recall I've ever written a post that compares Trump to Hitler, although I have said many times that Trump is a demagogue who has strong totalitarian tendencies. But saying Trump is just like Hitler? Never.

Another curious trait that is shared by Trump supporters is that they believe the only way to deal with a hated politician is to assassinate him or her (or lock her up). I once documented on P.E. a rabid far right blogger who allowed one of her commenters to suggest that Mr. Obama be assassinated.

This is THEIR solution, not anything I would even think about, since it is a treasonous crime against America. But notice how Anonymous @2:21 suggests that I commit murder to get rid of Trump because Anonymous @2:21 falsely claims I think Trump is Hitler.

Truly, these people are mentally disturbed. And what is even more astounding is that they come to my blog to expose themselves as dumb as dirt and completely bonkers.


Jerry Critter said...

Shaw - "And what is even more astounding is that they come to my blog to expose themselves as dumb as dirt and completely bonkers."

They think they are being clever and smart.

skudrunner said...

How much faith do you put in the CBO that says 14 million people will lose coverage and there are 11.5 million enrolled, how is that?

If we had an independent news organization the truth could be reported on instead of all the fake news published by the MSM and Fox.
No one knows the answer to the proposed bill and everyone is speculating the outcome based on their own political views. The fact is obamacare was a secret bill no one had ever seen and they voted for anyway. Everyone who voted for a massive bill they have never seen should have been impeached for incompetence.

Jerry Critter said...

skud, you are comparing apples and oranges. CBO estimate is title people losing healthcare, period, if Trumpcare is passed.

CBO is non-partisan. In fact, their 10 year estimate of the number of people losing their insurance coverage is 24 million, close to the White House's estimate of 26 million people. Note, the partisan, republican, White House estimate is LARGER than the CBO estimate.

Ducky's here said...

skud, here is what is obviously happening.

1. Trump promised a large increase in military spending

2. The Congress is primarily interested in further wealth transfers to the upper few percent.

3. They get te money through this "big, beautiful" plan which strips millions of people of health coverage.

Many Trump voters are going to be hit and I can't believe this gets too far without a serious backlash.

Rational Nation USA said...

Dave, Gates and Buffet don't need health insurance. I am concerned with the less fortunate and the lower to upper class middle America.

Buffet and Gates can self insure.

Jerry Critter said...

"Many Trump voters are going to be hit and I can't believe this gets too far without a serious backlash."

They will blame illegal aliens, the "entitled" poor, and that black guy that use to be president.

Shaw Kenawe said...


Currently, the subsidies under Obamacare are devised to help limit how much low- and middle-income Americans can be asked to pay for health insurance. The Republican plan works differently. It increases the amount that insurers can charge older customers, and it awards flat subsidies by age, up to an income of $75,000.

On premiums alone, prices would rise by more than 20 percent for the oldest group of customers. By 2026, the budget office projected, “premiums in the nongroup market would be 20 percent to 25 percent lower for a 21-year-old and 8 percent to 10 percent lower for a 40-year-old — but 20 percent to 25 percent higher for a 64-year-old.”

But the change in tax credits matters more. The combined difference in how much extra the older customer would have to pay for health insurance is enormous. The C.B.O. estimates that the price an average 64-year-old earning $26,500 would need to pay after using a subsidy would increase from $1,700 under Obamacare to $14,600 under the Republican plan.

Remember how the Lying Liar, Trump, promised his plan would be better than Obamacare? Would cost less? And everyone would be covered?


Shaw Kenawe said...

Aaron Blake, WaPo:

24 million fewer insured is one thing. How can GOP explain older, poorer Americans paying 750% higher

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... here's how to explain it...

There's a cost to pay for liberty...


Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave,What sort of "liberty" are they talking about? The liberty of not being able to afford health care?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: They're terminal. No hope. Too far gone. Once they, who indulge themselves in a Sunday "faith" blog every week, went for a fake Christian and all around scuzzbag, I knew no one could ever take them seriously ever again.

They debased themselves and their faith for a conman.

Dave Miller said...

No arguments here.

I would say though that there is at least some criticism of Trumps manner from one or two of the daily gang.

But the others quickly drown it out.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave: "I would say though that there is at least some criticism of Trumps manner from one or two of the daily gang.

But the others quickly drown it out."

How many cowards, whose hearts are all as false
As stairs of sand, wear yet upon their chins
The beards of Hercules and frowning Mars,
Who, inward search'd, have livers white as milk.

W. SHAKESPEARE, The Merchant of Venice

Anonymous said...


here's hoping trump will go with it.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... you stated that "Trump is a liar."

I don't typically use that strong of language and many have said for it to be a lie, there needs to be intent to deceive. The common example being a campaign promise a candidate makes, that then he is unable to accomplish. Is that a lie?

Well we know during and after the Obama Administration, many extremist bloggers called every broken promise from candidate Obama a lie, regardless of intent.

But of course, that is not how they view the truth now. Now, in regards to Trump, these extremists excuse his words in ways they never did with Obama.

Why the change? Is it possible they are incredibly partisan or is it because they are intellectually dishonest, or lazy? or just angry and want to say stupid stuff? Who knows.

Circling back to Pres. Trump, we know for a fact, because he wrote it, that he said President had his phone wire tapped. And then, when asked for evidence, he said he had it. Then when his press agent was asked about it, he said trump believes, offering no evidence. Then he said Congress should investigate, even though Trump stated flatly that he had the evidence already!

Then Kelly Ann Conway was asked about her statements in support of Trump and the wire tapping claim and she said "I'm not in the business of evidence."

Now Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Tulare), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, says... “We don’t have any evidence that that took place..."

So... was President Trump just wrong when he said he had evidence? Or was he trying to deceive people and as such lying?

And will anyone of the people who 6 months ago thought lies and deception from Admin leaders and HRC was tantamount to treason care?

Apart from Sens. Graham and McCain, both hated by the extremists, I doubt it.

That really is SAD...

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave, I have no problem calling Trump a liar. He spent 5 years perpetuating the lie that President Obama was not an American citizen. He didn't care that those whose job it is to affirm that Mr. Obama was a citizen confirmed that he is indeed a citizen. Trump continued to promote doubt and false rumors. He even told America that the people that he sent to Hawaii were finding "amazing things." That was all a LIE! Trump never produced those "amazing" things.

As a presidential candidate, he did the same thing. He claimed thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrated the Sept.11 attack. He insisted that was true. A LIE.

As a president he claimed that 3 million illegals voted for Hillary, and that's why she won the popular vote. There was no evidence to support this. It is another LIE.

The latest lie is Trump's claim that President Obama wire-tapped Trump Tower. He provided no evidence, and he has access to information that would confirm or deny this!

Trump's supporters have no problem with this. Amazing. I have no respect for them.

skudrunner said...

Where are the 30 million people enrolled in obamacare. What is it now 14.5 million even after significant subsidies and a penalty if you don't enroll. Now 24 million will be without health insurance if Tcare passes, anyone who believes that puts to much faith in the government. The CBO has proven to seldom be right.

Go to a federal medicaid program. It would cost less and since the working poor pay for both programs would meet the needs of the needy better.
It is not as politically advantages because neither side can accuse the other of killing people and in the long run would probably save money.

One thing that has been proven and that is obamacare is a disaster and the democrats can't wait for the other side to take it off their hands.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Another Trump lie is that the ACA is imploding and is a complete disaster.

That simply isn't true. Another instance of Trump making stuff up. It's called LYING:

The CBO's other bombshell: the Affordable Care Act isn't imploding
Trump can “fix” Obamacare by doing nothing.

Beyond its eye-popping findings on higher premiums and large-scale coverage loss, the Congressional Budget Office’s official score of the American Health Care Act also quietly demolishes the central publicly stated rationale for repealing the Affordable Care Act. The key passage is a somewhat jargon-full sentence on the second page of the report that says, “In CBO and JCT’s assessment, however, the nongroup market would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the legislation.”

Since this is a score of a proposed bill, the rest of the discussion naturally focuses on the “legislation” side of the ledger. But the assessment that markets will stabilize under current law is critical. President Trump’s central argument for repeal and replace is that the Affordable Care Act is “imploding,” so some kind of radical change is necessary.

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
We are making great progress with healthcare. ObamaCare is imploding and will only get worse. Republicans coming together to get job done!

Paul Ryan also frequently claims that the Affordable Care Act is currently in a “death spiral.”

This matters because you can’t beat something with nothing. If it’s really true that the ACA is doomed to collapse, then even a bad replacement looks pretty good. But the CBO is saying that it isn’t doomed to collapse. That the instability in the marketplaces we saw in 2016 is a one-time adjustment and the markets will stabilize soon even without policy change. Which means that if the law manages to survive, in a year or so, the Trump administration will likely be able to claim they fixed it.


Jerry Critter said...

skud - "The CBO has proven to seldom be right."

Maybe you are right, skud. Trump's own White House people estimate that 26 million people will lose their healthcare if Trumpcare is passed, not the low CBO estimate of 24 million.