Because the I, me, and mine takes precedent over the you, them, and us in this hyper individualized culture.
The capital class of billionaires and trillionaires like Bezos, Elliot, Zuckerberg, trump, Musk, et all will, with the help of their bought cronies in politics, insure the greed and selfishness blazes on.
And the cult of The Orange One wil simply be replaced by another name. But the worship of capital and power will live on.
Eventually destroying any hopes of true freedom and liberation for We the People.
Maybe -FJ and his stable of sock puppets can make an argument rebuttal the above.
Sure... there is no you, them, and us without I, me, and mine. Meden agan (Nothing too much)! When you speak of billionaires, you speak of excess. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be wealth, or surplus luxury beyond necessity. It's how we dispose of this excess that matters. The listed names use it "productively" to accumulate MORE wealth and thereby outcompete and deprive others of using their own surplus wealth "productively". But once you have that large a surplus as a billion dollars, perhaps its' time you stop using your wealth productively, and let others have a chance to earn something less than a billion dollars.
And once you have a billion, please... no philanthro-capitalism. No Ford, Rockeffeller, or Carnegie philanthro-corporations that perpetuate dissent and resentment. If you wish to give your fortune away, give it away. A Potlatch would be nice. A huge party would be nice. A pyramid honoring your name would be nice. But let the Strulbrugge philanthropic corporation DIE.
-FJ is partially right. Whether he grows to recognize his points of error or not depends on his willingness to peel back more of the onion and go inwardly deeper.
It takes a great deal of effort and trusting what you uncover.
Family issues are difficult, but I've often wondered why Conway did not speak out more in Trump's first term when it might have made difference.
The reality many progressives are struggling to deal with is this... the ground has shifted. We're not going back. The Trump genie cannot be put back into the bottle.
After the 2028 elections, Trump will leave office, completely immune fro all possible criminal charges of the previous four years. He will never see the inside of a cell, he will never go to trial again.
And as long as his fingers still function, we will be dealing with his tweets.
All because people like Conway and a feckless GOP, when they had Trump on the ropes back in the day, threw him a lifeline. Instead of ditching him and moving on.
Stop and think about where we'd be today if that had happened.
I'm not sure Dave we'd be in a place much different than we are today.
Yes we'd likely beat bit more civil. Perhaps kinder to the disadvantaged and those who don't tread the already beaten path.
But, we'd still be pouring money into the MIC. Funding Israel's ethnic cleansing (genocide) of Palestinians. Plowing uncreasing support to Ukraine (continuing to fight a demon we'll never defeat). Continuing to support the predatory capitalist system that created and maintains a growing system of inequality. We'd still be demonizing Iran and misrepresenting the truth. And we'd still be hawking th straight up bull**it about how great America is and always has been.
So, until Americans, all Americans, face fully our own country's demons and come to term with them fully don't expect much to change. We'll just keep fighting and chasing our tail maintaining the illusion of real change.
As the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Yes the Rpublican base is just sooooo deplorable. If only the feckless elites had turned their backs on the base again... how great the Uni-Party go-slong-to-get-alongism WOULD have been. They should be more like the Democrats, who completely ignore their base's demands, and even "elect" their elite rpresentatives FOR them. "No Bernie's"!
Oh my stars the many named troll is peevish on this post! Wow! They are full of memorable quips like billionaires earned their money. Really, all on their ownsome? No one helped them? At all? Riiiiiigggghhhht!!
Billionaires don't become billionaires by paying their workers a living wage. No, that level of attainment comes with the requisite avarice and ability to step on others without thought or regrets. And from what I've been reading the Robber Baron class is panicking. Hard. How so? They are buying up bunkers and stocking it with all the conveniences. LOL
In the movie Tremors 2 there is a character who built their bunker with yards of concrete walls only for the critters to metamorphosize from a worm to a critter with wings. And they liked that bunker! Tons of food. LOL
Dave and Les - my mother and I have been discussing the topic of what if Kamala had been elected and how horrible it is that Trump 2.0 took a wrecking ball not only to the People's House but to our country and how on earth are we going to fix it all?
My view is we don't fix it because in my opinion it was broken from the day the new government was taken out of the box. As the Black voices I've been listening to have taught me the Black person didn't need the Civil Rights Act because our Constitution told them they had rights. No, that Act was for the White person to remind them they couldn't deny others their rights based on the color of their skin. That needs to be addressed as well as how we treated the nations who already lived here when we arrived and took over the place.
So WeThePeople build America 2.0 to include the wisdom gained over the past two and a half centuries. We know better, we can do better.
I'm not alone in this belief of rebuilding. The younger generations are already networking and planning and just having a grand time doing their best to thwart the massively incompetent but over the top cruel regime we have here/now.
When MAGA finally implodes from the shear weight of their cruelty and ineptness the resulting sinkhole will suck them and their entire kay-fabe style of politics down into oblivion. Can't happen to a more deserving group of humans.
Oh, it's going to suck until then but still, malicious compliance is your friend until liberation day.
Liberation day, at least for me and my faith, will not come until all beings are free and out from under the boot of economic, political, and spiritual manipulation, oppression, and inequality.
I fully agree Grey One talks sass. IMO the rebuilding must be centered on and around a much deeper well of empathy, compassion, and unfabricates wisdom.
In short this means folks dissolving their egos and realizing the Truth of interconnectedness and interbeing. Eastern spiritual traditions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Gnosticism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam all have a much better grasp and understanding of these truths than either Zionist Judaism or Empire Christianity IMO.
The inherent inequalities intentionally built into the capitalist system and supported by our government must be eliminated in any rebuilding or the fierce selfish individualism of the western cultures will simply resurface and the Suffering caused by it will gain another foothold.
Embracing peace and love for humanity means embracing it for ALL of humanity. Regardess of Borders.
Dave, He was anti-trump before it was popular, except among democrats Your statement "Stop and think about where we'd be today if that had happened" We'd have never answer a question kamala and now we would have 10 million uninvited border crossers and iran would have a nuclear weapon.
"Billionaires don't become billionaires by paying their workers a living wage." No they become billionaires by risking everything and hoping it turns out. If they fail, which is more often the case, they put on their adult pants and try again. Some invent a wanted product or service and some by investing. Yes there are a few who inherit their wealth but the majority took a chance on themselves at a very high risk. The vast majority would rather not try and prefer to work for someone who did then complain about the person providing them a job.
Trump has no "intentions." He lurches from emotion to emotion which is triggered by something he sees on a cable news station, reads on Twitter/X, or some half-brained sycophant whispers in his ear.
We are watching this ghoul disintegrate in real time. Trump has NEVER had a deep discussion on policy, his vision for America, or anything about our American history. The only thing we hear from him is "fake this, fake that, and I'm the most horribly treated human being in world history!"
Trump is intentionless. He nothing but a loud, chronically needy id.
I grew up in the culture of he who dies with the most toys wins. I never had that many and it seems like you didn't either. I hold no animosity toward people's wealth unless they got it through questionable means, like politicians. I would rather see someone acquire their wealth through their efforts and not by bilking the taxpayer. Guess we differ.
I have no problem with folks who earn their wealth. Nor do I have a problem with corporations making a reasonable profit. I've NEVER said otherwise.
I do have a VERY large problem with wealthy corporations paying little to no taxes, I do have a VERY large problem with our regressive tax policies in which multi millionaires, bilionaires, and trillionsires pay a considerably smaller % of their income in taxes than a man or women making $100,000 per year.
So yes, we disagree in the sense I support a progressive tax structure and eliminating te loopholes the wealthy use to avoid paying taxes to the society that gives them so much.
I am glad you would support the Fair Tax where everyone pays their Fair Share. Why is it that some support taxing companies but have issues with tariffs, both of these raise prices for consumers. Our tax system needs a complete overhaul but politicians are to busy attacking each other to spend time doing their job plus they don't want to pay more in taxes because they are part of the rich class. Our tax system favors the rich and punishes the middle class and a Fair Tax system would change that. There is a simple system zero deductions, 3% first 50K, 5% next 50, 10$ next 50, 15% next 50 and 20% after 200K. Even the brilliant bartender could understand this system. But then who could she and bernie attack.
I would have no problem with the basic structure you propose. I may have different numbers in mind, as people would, but the basic simplified structure would have my vote were I in congress.
I would also add that Citizens United should be voided and lobbyists (influence groups) eliminated entirely. As well as corporations barred entirely from making political donations to candidates or legislators I n any amount and by any means. To violate should carry profit crushing fines.
Les, I don't know where you saw any snark but I do have very thick skin so I may have missed it.
See we agree on many things because I think lobbyists are a big part of the corruption process. There was a president who was going to get rid of them but it was to much of an uphill battle because his fellow politicians don't want to give up that gravy train. There is no legitimate reason to have lobbyists other than buy votes for their industry. Of course with them telling the politicians how to vote the elected elite have more time on their hands to attack each other.
Of course you don't recognize your own snack. Reread your last paragraph. That what I was referencing.
Yes skud, when we talk specifics and take out personalities we do agree on much.
I assume you were referencing Senator McCain. One of the reasons I supported him. Among others. IMO he was one of the last sincere and ethical Republicans.
Not his protoge, Lindsay? I think Lindsay had a man-crush on McCain. He used to follow him around Ukraine like a puppy dog. "We are here to help you kill Ruskies!" lol!
The Republican base elected Trump for a second term, knowing that he is a convicted felon and adjudicated SA/rapist (judge's word) who is all over the Epstein files and who partied with Epstein & Maxwell for decades, knowing both of them trafficked children to rich and powerful people to rape.
What kind of degenerates vote for that? The Republican base kind does.
Dave, I don't have an answer to your questions but they are very relevant and should be considered. The Fair Tax proposal conclude that there would be a zero change in whet the IRS seized so that means we have a spending problem not a collection problem. We do know that we are not going to lower the deficit or balance the budget under the current system and "tax the rich" is a nice and popular phrase but will accomplish little.
A significant change in our tax system is difficult because it takes congress to pass it and they use the tax system as a political weapon.
Well Skud... I assume you, as I do, use AI. I'm assuming you got your numbers from there. Plug them in again and ask what would the net effect be on the US economy both long and short term.
It would be part of a real, interesting discussion, as opposed to a bunch of ppl just screaming.
I didn't run it through AI because it is just a thought not a proposal. The number is skewed and perhaps the income above 200000 should be graduated upwards but I believe everyone should pay their fair share which seems to be the rally cry but only applies to the rich.
Under the current system the rich and not the obama rich but the real rich like over one million a year, use all the loopholes available to reduce their taxes so the actual rate is very small. Remove all deductions and loopholes and the rich would indeed pay more. We can't rely on congress to do anything because they are not smart enough and have a vested interest in not changing it.
Loopholes... like the ones that allowed Trump to completely avoid taxes in some years and only pay $750 in others? I've never been able to pay such a small amount.
37 comments:
Insightful Words.
Sentiments this nation chose to ignore. Twice.
It will choose to ignore the sentiments again.
Why?
Because the I, me, and mine takes precedent over the you, them, and us in this hyper individualized culture.
The capital class of billionaires and trillionaires like Bezos, Elliot, Zuckerberg, trump, Musk, et all will, with the help of their bought cronies in politics, insure the greed and selfishness blazes on.
And the cult of The Orange One wil simply be replaced by another name. But the worship of capital and power will live on.
Eventually destroying any hopes of true freedom and liberation for We the People.
Maybe -FJ and his stable of sock puppets can make an argument rebuttal the above.
Afterall, pretzel logic is fun to read!
Sure... there is no you, them, and us without I, me, and mine. Meden agan (Nothing too much)! When you speak of billionaires, you speak of excess. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be wealth, or surplus luxury beyond necessity. It's how we dispose of this excess that matters. The listed names use it "productively" to accumulate MORE wealth and thereby outcompete and deprive others of using their own surplus wealth "productively". But once you have that large a surplus as a billion dollars, perhaps its' time you stop using your wealth productively, and let others have a chance to earn something less than a billion dollars.
And once you have a billion, please... no philanthro-capitalism. No Ford, Rockeffeller, or Carnegie philanthro-corporations that perpetuate dissent and resentment. If you wish to give your fortune away, give it away. A Potlatch would be nice. A huge party would be nice. A pyramid honoring your name would be nice. But let the Strulbrugge philanthropic corporation DIE.
ps - George Conway's comment is pure projection!
...his goal is the perpetuation of the excesses of the globalist capitalist system, and who doesn't brook Trump's destructive "interference" into it.
No, he’s saying truths.
Your opinion.
-FJ is partially right. Whether he grows to recognize his points of error or not depends on his willingness to peel back more of the onion and go inwardly deeper.
It takes a great deal of effort and trusting what you uncover.
Family issues are difficult, but I've often wondered why Conway did not speak out more in Trump's first term when it might have made difference.
The reality many progressives are struggling to deal with is this... the ground has shifted. We're not going back. The Trump genie cannot be put back into the bottle.
After the 2028 elections, Trump will leave office, completely immune fro all possible criminal charges of the previous four years. He will never see the inside of a cell, he will never go to trial again.
And as long as his fingers still function, we will be dealing with his tweets.
All because people like Conway and a feckless GOP, when they had Trump on the ropes back in the day, threw him a lifeline. Instead of ditching him and moving on.
Stop and think about where we'd be today if that had happened.
I'm not sure Dave we'd be in a place much different than we are today.
Yes we'd likely beat bit more civil. Perhaps kinder to the disadvantaged and those who don't tread the already beaten path.
But, we'd still be pouring money into the MIC. Funding Israel's ethnic cleansing (genocide) of Palestinians. Plowing uncreasing support to Ukraine (continuing to fight a demon we'll never defeat). Continuing to support the predatory capitalist system that created and maintains a growing system of inequality. We'd still be demonizing Iran and misrepresenting the truth. And we'd still be hawking th straight up bull**it about how great America is and always has been.
So, until Americans, all Americans, face fully our own country's demons and come to term with them fully don't expect much to change. We'll just keep fighting and chasing our tail maintaining the illusion of real change.
As the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Sit with that for awhile.
As are all your opinions vis. Trump and His intentions.
Which parts didn't apply to himself? Or are we all supposed to be just "fine" with the hypocrisy of criticizing others for what one does one's-self?
On "Permission Structures" Trump vs, < a href="https://farmersletters.blogspot.com/2024/12/rapid-onset-political-enlightenment.html">Obama
Yes the Rpublican base is just sooooo deplorable. If only the feckless elites had turned their backs on the base again... how great the Uni-Party go-slong-to-get-alongism WOULD have been. They should be more like the Democrats, who completely ignore their base's demands, and even "elect" their elite rpresentatives FOR them. "No Bernie's"!
Fair words Les... either way, we'll never know. But at least we'd have more allies who'd been in the fight.
Oh my stars the many named troll is peevish on this post! Wow! They are full of memorable quips like billionaires earned their money. Really, all on their ownsome? No one helped them? At all? Riiiiiigggghhhht!!
Billionaires don't become billionaires by paying their workers a living wage. No, that level of attainment comes with the requisite avarice and ability to step on others without thought or regrets. And from what I've been reading the Robber Baron class is panicking. Hard. How so? They are buying up bunkers and stocking it with all the conveniences. LOL
In the movie Tremors 2 there is a character who built their bunker with yards of concrete walls only for the critters to metamorphosize from a worm to a critter with wings. And they liked that bunker! Tons of food. LOL
Dave and Les - my mother and I have been discussing the topic of what if Kamala had been elected and how horrible it is that Trump 2.0 took a wrecking ball not only to the People's House but to our country and how on earth are we going to fix it all?
My view is we don't fix it because in my opinion it was broken from the day the new government was taken out of the box. As the Black voices I've been listening to have taught me the Black person didn't need the Civil Rights Act because our Constitution told them they had rights. No, that Act was for the White person to remind them they couldn't deny others their rights based on the color of their skin. That needs to be addressed as well as how we treated the nations who already lived here when we arrived and took over the place.
So WeThePeople build America 2.0 to include the wisdom gained over the past two and a half centuries. We know better, we can do better.
I'm not alone in this belief of rebuilding. The younger generations are already networking and planning and just having a grand time doing their best to thwart the massively incompetent but over the top cruel regime we have here/now.
When MAGA finally implodes from the shear weight of their cruelty and ineptness the resulting sinkhole will suck them and their entire kay-fabe style of politics down into oblivion. Can't happen to a more deserving group of humans.
Oh, it's going to suck until then but still, malicious compliance is your friend until liberation day.
Liberation day, at least for me and my faith, will not come until all beings are free and out from under the boot of economic, political, and spiritual manipulation, oppression, and inequality.
I fully agree Grey One talks sass. IMO the rebuilding must be centered on and around a much deeper well of empathy, compassion, and unfabricates wisdom.
In short this means folks dissolving their egos and realizing the Truth of interconnectedness and interbeing. Eastern spiritual traditions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Gnosticism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam all have a much better grasp and understanding of these truths than either Zionist Judaism or Empire Christianity IMO.
The inherent inequalities intentionally built into the capitalist system and supported by our government must be eliminated in any rebuilding or the fierce selfish individualism of the western cultures will simply resurface and the Suffering caused by it will gain another foothold.
Embracing peace and love for humanity means embracing it for ALL of humanity. Regardess of Borders.
Dave, He was anti-trump before it was popular, except among democrats
Your statement "Stop and think about where we'd be today if that had happened" We'd have never answer a question kamala and now we would have 10 million uninvited border crossers and iran would have a nuclear weapon.
"Billionaires don't become billionaires by paying their workers a living wage."
No they become billionaires by risking everything and hoping it turns out. If they fail, which is more often the case, they put on their adult pants and try again. Some invent a wanted product or service and some by investing. Yes there are a few who inherit their wealth but the majority took a chance on themselves at a very high risk. The vast majority would rather not try and prefer to work for someone who did then complain about the person providing them a job.
The Treacherous Tyrant is turning CBS into FauxNews Jr. (Skud and FJ's second favority source of fake news.
All praise to Mammon, right skud?
Trump has no "intentions." He lurches from emotion to emotion which is triggered by something he sees on a cable news station, reads on Twitter/X, or some half-brained sycophant whispers in his ear.
We are watching this ghoul disintegrate in real time. Trump has NEVER had a deep discussion on policy, his vision for America, or anything about our American history. The only thing we hear from him is "fake this, fake that, and I'm the most horribly treated human being in world history!"
Trump is intentionless. He nothing but a loud, chronically needy id.
I grew up in the culture of he who dies with the most toys wins. I never had that many and it seems like you didn't either. I hold no animosity toward people's wealth unless they got it through questionable means, like politicians.
I would rather see someone acquire their wealth through their efforts and not by bilking the taxpayer. Guess we differ.
skud, pull your head out of the dense clouds.
I have no problem with folks who earn their wealth. Nor do I have a problem with corporations making a reasonable profit. I've NEVER said otherwise.
I do have a VERY large problem with wealthy corporations paying little to no taxes, I do have a VERY large problem with our regressive tax policies in which multi millionaires, bilionaires, and trillionsires pay a considerably smaller % of their income in taxes than a man or women making $100,000 per year.
So yes, we disagree in the sense I support a progressive tax structure and eliminating te loopholes the wealthy use to avoid paying taxes to the society that gives them so much.
I am glad you would support the Fair Tax where everyone pays their Fair Share. Why is it that some support taxing companies but have issues with tariffs, both of these raise prices for consumers.
Our tax system needs a complete overhaul but politicians are to busy attacking each other to spend time doing their job plus they don't want to pay more in taxes because they are part of the rich class. Our tax system favors the rich and punishes the middle class and a Fair Tax system would change that. There is a simple system zero deductions, 3% first 50K, 5% next 50, 10$ next 50, 15% next 50 and 20% after 200K.
Even the brilliant bartender could understand this system. But then who could she and bernie attack.
Your unnecessary snark aside, skud...
I would have no problem with the basic structure you propose. I may have different numbers in mind, as people would, but the basic simplified structure would have my vote were I in congress.
I would also add that Citizens United should be voided and lobbyists (influence groups) eliminated entirely. As well as corporations barred entirely from making political donations to candidates or legislators I n any amount and by any means. To violate should carry profit crushing fines.
Les, I don't know where you saw any snark but I do have very thick skin so I may have missed it.
See we agree on many things because I think lobbyists are a big part of the corruption process. There was a president who was going to get rid of them but it was to much of an uphill battle because his fellow politicians don't want to give up that gravy train.
There is no legitimate reason to have lobbyists other than buy votes for their industry. Of course with them telling the politicians how to vote the elected elite have more time on their hands to attack each other.
Of course you don't recognize your own snack. Reread your last paragraph. That what I was referencing.
Yes skud, when we talk specifics and take out personalities we do agree on much.
I assume you were referencing Senator McCain. One of the reasons I supported him. Among others. IMO he was one of the last sincere and ethical Republicans.
Not his protoge, Lindsay? I think Lindsay had a man-crush on McCain. He used to follow him around Ukraine like a puppy dog. "We are here to help you kill Ruskies!" lol!
The Republican base elected Trump for a second term, knowing that he is a convicted felon and adjudicated SA/rapist (judge's word) who is all over the Epstein files and who partied with Epstein & Maxwell for decades, knowing both of them trafficked children to rich and powerful people to rape.
What kind of degenerates vote for that? The Republican base kind does.
Whatever...
Oh yes, better the kill Palestians and Iranians, people of color with a different religion, right -man?
...that's sincere and ethical because they're all white. @@
Skud... I'm going to to take you at your word and assume your tax plan is serious, and you've thought about it and its impact on the US economy.
So let's say we adopt your plan, lock, stock and barrel.
Will this lower the US deficit? Will the economy grow or sink as a result of your economic policies? Will it balance our budget?
These are serious questions people should consider when thinking about US tax policies.
Dave, I don't have an answer to your questions but they are very relevant and should be considered. The Fair Tax proposal conclude that there would be a zero change in whet the IRS seized so that means we have a spending problem not a collection problem. We do know that we are not going to lower the deficit or balance the budget under the current system and "tax the rich" is a nice and popular phrase but will accomplish little.
A significant change in our tax system is difficult because it takes congress to pass it and they use the tax system as a political weapon.
Well Skud... I assume you, as I do, use AI. I'm assuming you got your numbers from there. Plug them in again and ask what would the net effect be on the US economy both long and short term.
It would be part of a real, interesting discussion, as opposed to a bunch of ppl just screaming.
I didn't run it through AI because it is just a thought not a proposal. The number is skewed and perhaps the income above 200000 should be graduated upwards but I believe everyone should pay their fair share which seems to be the rally cry but only applies to the rich.
Under the current system the rich and not the obama rich but the real rich like over one million a year, use all the loopholes available to reduce their taxes so the actual rate is very small. Remove all deductions and loopholes and the rich would indeed pay more. We can't rely on congress to do anything because they are not smart enough and have a vested interest in not changing it.
Loopholes... like the ones that allowed Trump to completely avoid taxes in some years and only pay $750 in others? I've never been able to pay such a small amount.
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