From early reports the train was speeding so no amount of infrastructure spending could have made a difference. Why do we use taxpayer money to support trains. We use gas tax revenues and tolls to support roads, airport fees to support airports and taxpayer money to support trains, makes no sense. We have a long way to go to get our roads and bridges up to date and that is with the trillion spent by the previous administration for those three shovel ready jobs.
Maybe instead of finding things that divide the country we can have our elected elite work together for the good of the people. I know I am being silly to even think politicians would do something for anyone other than themselves.
We begin to understand the current GOP kingdom distaste for for 'evidence-based': "If you look under the hood of the industrial economy, you can see why there is this counter-intuitive relationship between tax rates and economic growth . With high taxes, the only way to retain the bulk of the wealth created by a business is by reinvesting it in the business -- in plants, equipment, staff, research and development, new products and all the rest. But if tax rates are low, then there is more incentive to pull the wealth out, by declaring it as profits that are taxed at what turns out to be too low a rate. In other words, low taxes create an incentive for profit taking, not for business expansion and capital investment.
This in turn creates an incentive for short-term horizons in business planning. If you’re going to be taking all the profits out of a company, and take home a few million a year, why bother to reinvest anything in the business? You’re going to be rich, and never have to work again, even if the business goes bust. Or gets packed on a boat and shipped to China. Or goes "virtual" and lets all the hard work, like, you know, actually making something, be done by the lowest bidder. Employees? Don’t need them.
But employees are also customers. If enough businesses "take profits", after some length of time, the former employees also become former customers. Meaning, they stop buying. As economists phrase it, the economy's aggregate demand generation is crippled. From examining the effects of the three Republican tax cut experiments this past century, it appears the length of time for this to happen is five to seven years." Mike Kimel, economist explaining why the economy always tanks, sometimes disasterously, when the GOP is in charge. It is the only game they know. If only the voters understood.
skud: "Maybe instead of finding things that divide the country we can have our elected elite work together for the good of the people."
Skud, are you unaware that the GOP has the presidency, the Congress and the Judiciary? It is THEY who have the power to work for the "good of the people." Do you not know how our government works? The POTUS proposes bills to become laws, the House and Senate write the laws, deliberate, and then vote on enacting the laws, and the Judiciary rules on the laws' constitutionality. What exactly is preventing this administration and Congress from working for the good of the people? The GOP is ready to pass a tax bill that the American people do not support -- the good American people -- because it favors the richest of the rich. That's your party working for the good of the richest of the rich.
There is no one to blame except Trump and the GOP Congress for the debacle we're witnessing on this tax giveaway to the billionaires of America. The Democrats tried to work with the Goopers, but they were shut out. Not ONE debate or hearing for this tax bill. There were 79 hearings for the ACA. Where's "the goo of the people" on the tax bill?
There's no bothsiderism on this one. The GOP has shown itself to be the party of plutocrats and crooks.
BB-Idaho: "From examining the effects of the three Republican tax cut experiments this past century, it appears the length of time for this to happen is five to seven years." Mike Kimel, economist explaining why the economy always tanks, sometimes disasterously, when the GOP is in charge. It is the only game they know. If only the voters understood."
The GOP keeps making the same mistakes because they don't pay a price for them. As you indicate, the corporation bigwigs can take the money and run; their future is secured by the toil and sweat of their workers, who will alway get the short end of the proverbial stick. Trickle down does't work; never has. The GOP knows this, and they have the cultists who will keep them in power as long as once a year they feel smug in saying "Merry Christmas." That will pay for their children's education and health care, won't it.
Your right, skud. We have a long way to go with our infrastructure upkeep and AMTRAC is part of that infrastructure (you might be interested to know that the Northeast corridor operates at a profit).
One way to fund that maintenance is to pass a tax giveaway, right?
Shaw... Reagan cut taxes bigly, and then reversed course and raised taxes more than ever had been done to keep social security solvent for the next 40 years.
Bush the Elder raised taxes even more to start us towards balancing the budget in the 90's. He was thrown out essentially by disgusted Republican voters.
Clinton, with nary a GOP vote, raised taxes again.
The results? An economy that grew through the 80's and 90's. But the debt exploded as a result of the Reagan tax cuts. We finally got to a balanced budget under Pres Clinton, but Bush the younger soon wiped that out with, of course more tax cuts.
As the federal debt again ballooned under the younger Bush, Obama was handed a train wreck. Eschewing calls from the GOP to stop spending and balance the budget, Obama spent to stimulate the economy, essentially rescuing the US and maybe the rest of the world from a cataclysmic economic retraction.
And now, once again, the GOP wants to cut taxes. While the economy is humming. Why? For stimulus? Who knows... what we do know is this... once all is said and done, the debt, as it has under every GOP president since Reagan, will rise. And then, we will elect a Dem who will once again, cut the debt.
The GOP is a piece of work. Even the most positive of ppl scoring this bill using dynamic accounting and allowing for economic growth, says the federal debt will increase by about $500 billion.
How anyone can defend this with a straight face is beyond me.
A couple of corrections 1. This is not my party in that I have no party. 2. I assume you are referring to the bill that congress had to pass to see 3. Cutting taxes is something your party has always been against. Yes it will help the rich and the middle class you just need to read it instead of listening to madam pelosi and chuckie who never bothered to read this tax bill or obamacare. Who knows how this tax bill will turn out but we know obamacare has been a disaster for all but ten million highly subsidized. 4. If a bill is passed that requires people to pay for insurance, receive sizable subsidies and 66% would rather pay a fine, how good is that legislation. 5. In case you forgot to mention the 1 trillion increase in debt. That is one tenth the increase the anointed one racked up in eight years with nothing to show for it.
Have a Merry Christmas, I know that is not PC to an atheist but have one anyway.
skud: "In case you forgot to mention the 1 trillion increase in debt. That is one tenth the increase the anointed one racked up in eight years with nothing to show for it."
Your willful ignorance on this subject is appalling. I haven't the time nor the inclination to point out all the errors in your comment.
Just understand this: every non-partisan study group and federal agency has determined that this "tax cut" is a huge giveaway to the billionaires and a pot of crap for the rest of us. That you are determined to pretend this is not true is deplorable.
Ducky do you think skud will read the link you provided? Nah. He keeps repeating that President Obama increased the debt when he saved the country from certain financial disaster, he willfully disregards the cicumstances under which President Obama did what he had to do.
I wonder if skud is aware of the fact that the GOP Saint Ronnie taxed Social Security, great GOPer, right? Never make the richiest rich pay their share, but tax those on S.S.? That's a GOP Commandment.
The GOP will pay for this debacle. Puerto Ricans who've left the island because of the devastations from Hurricane Maria and the Republican Party's neglect will turn Florida blue. Virginia's House is now blue. May we witness a Blue Wave in 2018 and send the marauding Goopers and their criminal president to the hinterlands!
Dave, the GOP knows nothing except to cut taxes on the rich. That's their mantra. As you correctly pointed out, all that does is make for financial disasters. The GOP doesn't kow how to govern. Look at their last two presidents to undeerstand what they represent.
Increase by percentage of the national debt for the presidents of the lifetimes of folks commenting here.
Obama - 68% GW Bush - 101% Clinton - 32% GHW Bush - 54% Reagan - 186% Carter - 43% Ford - 47% Nixon - 121% LBJ - 13% JFK - 8% Ike - 9% Truman - 3%
Do any trends jump out?
I wonder where Pres Trump will land in this list? For me the biggest anomaly is GHW Bush slowing the astronomical growth of the deficit that occurred under noted supply sider Ronald Reagan. For that he was primaried by his party and never recovered, leading to the presidency of Bill Clinton, who slowed the growth of the deficit even more. Then the current GOP took us off a cliff when they last controlled both houses of congress and the White House.
Now we are in the same place again. Unified GOP control.
If history is a guide, this ain't gonna end well...
Now that the GOP budget moves towards trump's signature, let's check out what Speaker Paul Ryan answered when asked about whether the bill would add to the national debt...
Abandoning all pretense of the GOP fantasyland where tax cuts increase revenue, Ryan blurted out something honest...
"Nobody knows the answer to that question."
NOBODY??? You mean you guys aren't even faking it anymore?
Dave, you can't argue with skud. All he knows is that Mr. Obama did nothing in his 8 years in office. BTW, does skud check his reason at the door when he comes here?
If Mr. Obama did nothing for 8 years, why is Trump undoing all that "nothing" Mr. Obama did?
I have never said obama did nothing. If you call overseeing a stagnant economy, no wage progression, huge welfare additions and supporting regimes hostile to the US, then he had significant accomplishments. DJT takes a different view and that is the US is great but we can be greater. Dave those are interesting statics but what you forgot is what did the American people get for that 68% increase?
21 comments:
It's beginning to sound an awful lot like propaganda.
From early reports the train was speeding so no amount of infrastructure spending could have made a difference. Why do we use taxpayer money to support trains. We use gas tax revenues and tolls to support roads, airport fees to support airports and taxpayer money to support trains, makes no sense. We have a long way to go to get our roads and bridges up to date and that is with the trillion spent by the previous administration for those three shovel ready jobs.
Maybe instead of finding things that divide the country we can have our elected elite work together for the good of the people. I know I am being silly to even think politicians would do something for anyone other than themselves.
We begin to understand the current GOP kingdom distaste for for 'evidence-based':
"If you look under the hood of the industrial economy, you can see why there is this counter-intuitive relationship between tax rates and economic growth . With high taxes, the only way to retain the bulk of the wealth created by a business is by reinvesting it in the business -- in plants, equipment, staff, research and development, new products and all the rest. But if tax rates are low, then there is more incentive to pull the wealth out, by declaring it as profits that are taxed at what turns out to be too low a rate. In other words, low taxes create an incentive for profit taking, not for business expansion and capital investment.
This in turn creates an incentive for short-term horizons in business planning. If you’re going to be taking all the profits out of a company, and take home a few million a year, why bother to reinvest anything in the business? You’re going to be rich, and never have to work again, even if the business goes bust. Or gets packed on a boat and shipped to China. Or goes "virtual" and lets all the hard work, like, you know, actually making something, be done by the lowest bidder. Employees? Don’t need them.
But employees are also customers. If enough businesses "take profits", after some length of time, the former employees also become former customers. Meaning, they stop buying. As economists phrase it, the economy's aggregate demand generation is crippled. From examining the effects of the three Republican tax cut experiments this past century, it appears the length of time for this to happen is five to seven years." Mike Kimel, economist explaining why the economy always tanks, sometimes disasterously, when the GOP is in charge. It is the only game they know.
If only the voters understood.
skud:
"Maybe instead of finding things that divide the country we can have our elected elite work together for the good of the people."
Skud, are you unaware that the GOP has the presidency, the Congress and the Judiciary? It is THEY who have the power to work for the "good of the people." Do you not know how our government works? The POTUS proposes bills to become laws, the House and Senate write the laws, deliberate, and then vote on enacting the laws, and the Judiciary rules on the laws' constitutionality. What exactly is preventing this administration and Congress from working for the good of the people? The GOP is ready to pass a tax bill that the American people do not support -- the good American people -- because it favors the richest of the rich. That's your party working for the good of the richest of the rich.
There is no one to blame except Trump and the GOP Congress for the debacle we're witnessing on this tax giveaway to the billionaires of America. The Democrats tried to work with the Goopers, but they were shut out. Not ONE debate or hearing for this tax bill. There were 79 hearings for the ACA. Where's "the goo of the people" on the tax bill?
There's no bothsiderism on this one. The GOP has shown itself to be the party of plutocrats and crooks.
"The good of the people."
BB-Idaho: "From examining the effects of the three Republican tax cut experiments this past century, it appears the length of time for this to happen is five to seven years." Mike Kimel, economist explaining why the economy always tanks, sometimes disasterously, when the GOP is in charge. It is the only game they know.
If only the voters understood."
The GOP keeps making the same mistakes because they don't pay a price for them. As you indicate, the corporation bigwigs can take the money and run; their future is secured by the toil and sweat of their workers, who will alway get the short end of the proverbial stick. Trickle down does't work; never has. The GOP knows this, and they have the cultists who will keep them in power as long as once a year they feel smug in saying "Merry Christmas." That will pay for their children's education and health care, won't it.
You might want to post this, Shaw
The hurricane wasn't enough of a body blow to Puerto Rico as the rethugs in Congress see it.
What a freaking parcel of rogues.
Your right, skud. We have a long way to go with our infrastructure upkeep and AMTRAC is part of that infrastructure (you might be interested to know that the Northeast corridor operates at a profit).
One way to fund that maintenance is to pass a tax giveaway, right?
Shaw... Reagan cut taxes bigly, and then reversed course and raised taxes more than ever had been done to keep social security solvent for the next 40 years.
Bush the Elder raised taxes even more to start us towards balancing the budget in the 90's. He was thrown out essentially by disgusted Republican voters.
Clinton, with nary a GOP vote, raised taxes again.
The results? An economy that grew through the 80's and 90's. But the debt exploded as a result of the Reagan tax cuts. We finally got to a balanced budget under Pres Clinton, but Bush the younger soon wiped that out with, of course more tax cuts.
As the federal debt again ballooned under the younger Bush, Obama was handed a train wreck. Eschewing calls from the GOP to stop spending and balance the budget, Obama spent to stimulate the economy, essentially rescuing the US and maybe the rest of the world from a cataclysmic economic retraction.
And now, once again, the GOP wants to cut taxes. While the economy is humming. Why? For stimulus? Who knows... what we do know is this... once all is said and done, the debt, as it has under every GOP president since Reagan, will rise. And then, we will elect a Dem who will once again, cut the debt.
The GOP is a piece of work. Even the most positive of ppl scoring this bill using dynamic accounting and allowing for economic growth, says the federal debt will increase by about $500 billion.
How anyone can defend this with a straight face is beyond me.
A couple of corrections
1. This is not my party in that I have no party.
2. I assume you are referring to the bill that congress had to pass to see
3. Cutting taxes is something your party has always been against. Yes it will help the rich and the middle class you just need to read it instead of listening to madam pelosi and chuckie who never bothered to read this tax bill or obamacare. Who knows how this tax bill will turn out but we know obamacare has been a disaster for all but ten million highly subsidized.
4. If a bill is passed that requires people to pay for insurance, receive sizable subsidies and 66% would rather pay a fine, how good is that legislation.
5. In case you forgot to mention the 1 trillion increase in debt. That is one tenth the increase the anointed one racked up in eight years with nothing to show for it.
Have a Merry Christmas, I know that is not PC to an atheist but have one anyway.
And the middle class folks pulling the levers and marking the ballots keep asking for more of the same. Apparently.
Definition of insanity, to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Prepare for the next cycle.
Now I’ve seen it all!
You people, and especially Shaw who wrote this TRASH should hang your heads in SHAME !
To the troll "Doris," you are to be pitied more than mocked.
Your ability to understand what you read and where it came from is wretched.
SAD!
skud: "In case you forgot to mention the 1 trillion increase in debt. That is one tenth the increase the anointed one racked up in eight years with nothing to show for it."
Your willful ignorance on this subject is appalling. I haven't the time nor the inclination to point out all the errors in your comment.
Just understand this: every non-partisan study group and federal agency has determined that this "tax cut" is a huge giveaway to the billionaires and a pot of crap for the rest of us. That you are determined to pretend this is not true is deplorable.
RN, you are correct. Talk to skud. He believes the lies the Goopers tell him.
Ducky do you think skud will read the link you provided? Nah. He keeps repeating that President Obama increased the debt when he saved the country from certain financial disaster, he willfully disregards the cicumstances under which President Obama did what he had to do.
I wonder if skud is aware of the fact that the GOP Saint Ronnie taxed Social Security, great GOPer, right? Never make the richiest rich pay their share, but tax those on S.S.? That's a GOP Commandment.
The GOP will pay for this debacle. Puerto Ricans who've left the island because of the devastations from Hurricane Maria and the Republican Party's neglect will turn Florida blue. Virginia's House is now blue. May we witness a Blue Wave in 2018 and send the marauding Goopers and their criminal president to the hinterlands!
Dave, the GOP knows nothing except to cut taxes on the rich. That's their mantra. As you correctly pointed out, all that does is make for financial disasters. The GOP doesn't kow how to govern. Look at their last two presidents to undeerstand what they represent.
Skud... facts, facts, facts...
Increase by percentage of the national debt for the presidents of the lifetimes of folks commenting here.
Obama - 68%
GW Bush - 101%
Clinton - 32%
GHW Bush - 54%
Reagan - 186%
Carter - 43%
Ford - 47%
Nixon - 121%
LBJ - 13%
JFK - 8%
Ike - 9%
Truman - 3%
Do any trends jump out?
I wonder where Pres Trump will land in this list? For me the biggest anomaly is GHW Bush slowing the astronomical growth of the deficit that occurred under noted supply sider Ronald Reagan. For that he was primaried by his party and never recovered, leading to the presidency of Bill Clinton, who slowed the growth of the deficit even more. Then the current GOP took us off a cliff when they last controlled both houses of congress and the White House.
Now we are in the same place again. Unified GOP control.
If history is a guide, this ain't gonna end well...
Now that the GOP budget moves towards trump's signature, let's check out what Speaker Paul Ryan answered when asked about whether the bill would add to the national debt...
Abandoning all pretense of the GOP fantasyland where tax cuts increase revenue, Ryan blurted out something honest...
"Nobody knows the answer to that question."
NOBODY??? You mean you guys aren't even faking it anymore?
Thanks for governing for us regular guys Ryan...
Dave, you can't argue with skud. All he knows is that Mr. Obama did nothing in his 8 years in office. BTW, does skud check his reason at the door when he comes here?
If Mr. Obama did nothing for 8 years, why is Trump undoing all that "nothing" Mr. Obama did?
Has anyone asked skud?
I have never said obama did nothing. If you call overseeing a stagnant economy, no wage progression, huge welfare additions and supporting regimes hostile to the US, then he had significant accomplishments.
DJT takes a different view and that is the US is great but we can be greater.
Dave those are interesting statics but what you forgot is what did the American people get for that 68% increase?
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