We need to pay attention:
Look up the candidates HERE.
These Republicans are more than election deniers, they are the perpetrators of the plan to seize power by non-democratic means.
The fact that these Republicans and others want to control the voting process when they wanted to cheat the voting process in 2020 makes it clear that they do not respect democracy.
How do we correct this mass delusion when 30-35% of the population doesn't care about objective reality? (The guy who runs the blog in the link NEVER, EVER supplies ANY evidence for his belief in the stolen election. He's just one sorry example among many.)
I cite him and his blog to illustrate how people like him contribute to the Big Lie; and eventually, if we don't stop this mass delusion, the Big Lie will be the end of our democracy. And he and ilk will bear the blame.
The loss of Democracy is forever.
30 comments:
I'm not sure we can change this...
Most of the ppl I know who fall into this camp sincerely believe the election was stolen. Not necessarily through fraud perse, but by states unilaterally changing their election laws during the pandemic.
They will point out that those state governments had no constitutionally prescribed method for doing so, and as such, any change made through extraordinary means, was illegal.
So... any increased voting, due to those changes, was by definition, illegal.
That's the argument from the smarts.
The others just straight up tell you... I have no evidence at all. But I believe it to be true, pure and simple.
So what do we do?
About all I can see is work as hard as possible to make sure these folks are outvoted. The problem however is this...
Most of America is still center right, not far left, or even mostly left, and certainly not far right.
But those fringes that are driving the destruction of the GOP are active on the left too.
Take an issue like energy. Yesterday Saudi Arabia announced a 2 million barrel a day CUT in supply. On top of already high prices.
WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?
This is obvious... more supply and most of America would agree. However the far left that animates the push, rightly in my opinion, towards solar and renewables, will not stomach more energy production.
So the Dems will rightly get clobbered on this by the GOP.
In a sane world, Biden would walk out and tell the Saudis to pound sand, then open up the US, align with both Canada and Mexico in an "independent energy zone" and as much as possible, drill enough to break OPEC.
We have the reserves, we've just historically left the dirty work of drilling to others.
And our fringes, both left and right, are driving too much policy with their outsized influence.
Dave M. "Most of America is still center right, not far left, or even mostly left.."
If this is true, then how does one account for the fact that in the last 20 years, only ONE Republican, GWB in 2004, won the popular vote (he lost the popular vote in 2000). More people vote for Democrats than vote for Republicans. Trump lost the popular vote both times he ran for the presidency. I know the popular vote doesn't elect presidents, but it DOES tell us where the country stands on Dems vs. Repubs.
Can one make the argument that more Americans support Democrats -- center left and left -- than Republicans? I think so.
"Republicans routinely have been over-represented in Congress when you compare their share of the vote to their share of House seats won. Since 2000, Democrats have only won the House when they won a majority of the vote nationwide, as they did in 2018. Republicans have been able to do more with less, securing House majorities while winning less than 50 percent of the vote in four elections since 2000. In 2012, Republicans won a House majority even though their candidates won fewer votes than Democratic candidates."--Bloomberg.com
This is what I call minority rule that disregards the will of the majority. IMO, the US is a center left country. How else to explain the majority of Americans who support a woman's right to choose, the right to marry the person one loves, the right to privacy in family planning issues, better gun regulations, and keeping religion out of government?
Those are all majority positions of the American people, yet the Conservatives on the SCOTUS and Trump Republicans are working to overturn the will of the people. They've succeeded on abortion rights. What's next?
This is the tyranny of the minority in action.
Rev, Joey has the oil situation under control. He is going to venezuela and beg for some dirty oil while not allowing additional drilling on federal land. He is proving he is a great leader to get one of our longest allies in the ME to say screw you. Amazing how a few fringe players lead by AOC can dictate how the country should be run. We have been making strides to increase non polluting energy for years but now we need to stop the country and punish the citizens because we are not doing it today.
I hope you are correct that the dems get clobbered by the gop but I don't see that happening. The republicans can screw anything up even a landslide. They have a habit of selecting idiots and the press gives them all the exposure they can to show their incompetence. Joey goes to Caracas, PR, Fla and has yet to see the border, wow. But at least Nancy will get the crops picked.
From Dave Dubya (posted below):
Skud, who said this in 2020?
"Just spoke to my friend MBS (Crown Prince) of Saudi Arabia, who spoke with President Putin of Russia, & I expect & hope that they will be cutting back approximately 10 Million Barrels, and maybe substantially more which, if it happens, will be GREAT for the oil and gas industry!"
I have become convinced that the human race will be responsible for its own eventual destruction. One way or another.
Either by refusal to respond to current objective environmental situations or by simply blowing up the planet in the attempt to gain total control over everybody.
So it's beginning to make sense to simply uncomplicate ones life and to start living simply and be happy with whatever the cosmos has in store. As Dave said the phenomena not unfolding in the usa is likely unstoppable. And the rest of the globe suffers from the same kind of BS in one way or another as the usa.
And the blog you linked to... wow! Just WOW! I must say, it must really hurt to be as far removed from objective reality as those folks.
Les
That blogger considers himself a man of God.
I know.
I agree with you about simplifying one's life and trying to live one's best life.
Shaw asked... "Can one make the argument that more Americans support Democrats -- center left and left -- than Republicans? I think so."
The idea of the question is whether America is more center right, than center left.
If we take the current D and R labels out, I think I can make a pretty strong case, once we get ppl around a common table. Idea wise anyways.
I think, and I believe the data would back this up, that most of America thinks we need to balance our budget, or figure out a way to end deficit spending. I think a majority of Americans think we've swung too far left in accommodating people and their feelings.
A case in point is an award winning math teacher who was recently fired by NYU partly because is classes were too hard. That kind of stuff riles the center 50-60% of America.
I think while America can be really tolerant, the questions swirling around sports competitions with LGBTQ ppl are really tough. The problem, is even asking the questions can get you into trouble in many quarters. But even far lefties I know are nervous at what will happen if the farther left hears them ask any questions.
Yes, most of America is on board with abortion being legal, but that same "most of America" would also like to see some restrictions. For example, Pres Clinton, indeed, even his wife Hillary, used to say abortions should be "safe, legal and rare."
Now however, a Dem saying that will get no party backing, in the same way a member of the GOP also would not.
I guess however if we look at the vote totals, the numbers are not that strong. A few million out of 150-175 million. But let's remember, a vote for a Dem is no more a vote for the entirety of the Dem agenda than a vote for the GOP is a vote for the entire GOP agenda.
And in the last couple of elections, the Dem total was inflated because a significant number of former Republicans are just not going to vote for the crazies.
Right now is not a good time to measure where we're at because overall, Trump has skewed the results. I think, if we had a second GOP sane party, or a centrist party, that Dem advantage in popularity would disappear. I think we'd see the crazy GOP and sane GOP numbers would overwhelm the Dems...
at least IMHO...
Right now is not a good time to measure where we're at because overall, Trump has skewed the results. I think, if we had a second GOP sane party, or a centrist party, that Dem advantage in popularity would disappear. I think we'd see the crazy GOP and sane GOP numbers would overwhelm the Dems...
Valid point Dave. But the question is, how long before this nation has a 2'nd GOP or a centrist party again? I suspect we'll both be experiencing existence on a different plane than the one we're now experiencing.
Rev, Good post and hits all points. We have let the extremes in both parties be the loudest voice but not the majority voice.
Ms. Shaw, 2020 we were energy independent because we encouraged drilling and refining. We have needed for decades to become less dependent on forign oil and support our own industries. All that has changed and now we need forign producers. Maybe technology can produce a form of energy to be clean and abundant but in the meantime we have to have petroleum which is currently under attack from within.
Ahh... both sides comparison again. Yes, extremes are always outliers. But really there is no comparison possible given the state of the Trumpublican (gop) party.
Democracy and the rule of law have been under attack since Orange Boy trump walked down that elevator not so long ago.
From a Forbes article by Robert Rapier dated October 1, 2022:
"So President Trump didn’t make us energy independent. In fact, the gap between supply and demand substantially shrunk when President Obama was in office (again, because that’s when fracking really ramped up). But it would be fair to argue that President Trump’s energy policies slightly sped up the timeline in getting to the finish line of energy independence.
However, what isn’t true is that we lost that energy independence under President Biden.
Using the definition of exports minus imports, 2021 was our highest level of energy independence in history. In other words, we are even more energy independent than we were in 2019. (You can see all the data in U.S. Energy Facts Explained at the EIA website, which is also the source of the above graphic).
You can see the proof at the link. In 2019, our energy exports were greater than our imports by 0.61 quadrillion Btus (quads). In 2020, that excess grew to 3.47 quads (mainly because imports fell as Covid hit demand) and in 2021 it grew to a new record of 3.82 quads. By that measure, we are more energy independent than we have ever been.
If you prefer the definition of production minus consumption, then we are also still energy independent. In 2020 the U.S. produced 2.7 more quads than we consumed. In 2021, that excess shrank to 0.45 quads on the back of strong post-shutdown demand. So you could argue that by that measure our level of energy independence declined from 2020 to 2021, but it didn’t disappear.
If your preferred definition of energy independence is that we don’t import energy, as you can see from the graphic we haven’t come close to meeting that metric at any point since the 1950s.
So, on an apples-to-apples comparison, depending on your definition we are either still energy independent, or we never were."
So, if I read this correctly republicans/trumpublicans lie again.
No suprize.
possumlady
Thank you for your comment. Facts are stubborn things!
If that is true, which I am sure it is otherwise PL wouldn't post it, why are we so concerned about SA reduction and going to Caracus to beg for dirty oil. Also why are we depleting our strategic oil reserves.
What is not mentioned is we were net exporters in 2020.
Reuters
It is true that imports of petroleum (which includes crude oil, refined petroleum products, and other liquids) decreased in 2020, the last year of Trump’s presidential term: 7.863 million barrels per day imported versus 10.055 million barrels per day imported in 2016, former president Barack Obama’s last year, data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) shows ( here ).
That year the United States became a “net exporter” - exporting more of a commodity than what it imports ( here ) - of petroleum for the first time since 1949 ( here ) (it exported 8.498 million barrels per day, and imported 7.863 mb/d. You can do what serves your need with statistics as the forbes article shows. Facts are indeed stubborn things
Isn't the subject The possible loss of democracy. Most likely due to the rise of trumpublican fascism.
Possum... I won't argue with much of you have there. I've seen, and even used those numbers in the past. I think the issue is perception. And right now, the perception we have, in spite of our production, is that we are getting killed in the energy sector.
We may have overall "more energy" but possibly the wrong kind.
When gas is at $8.50 a gallon, and it is in parts of California, that's a problem.
And it should be a five alarm all hands on deck problem for any president. But there does not seem to be any urgency within the Biden Admin to deal with this.
Why?
A lot of this is at the root of Trump's support in the US... why are we at the mercy of foreign governments when we have enough for ourselves? Why are computer chips made overseas? Critical components for our cars? Etc., etc.
Someone in government needs to explain this clearly and concisely to the American people. Obama did not do, nor Trump and not Biden.
Someone needs to tell us the why and what we are going to do to avoid this in the future.
believe me, many Americans want some answers, and that lack of them leads to folks like Trump.
The answer is that it’s cheaper for corporations to get those things made overseas. What can a president do to make private corporations keep those jobs here?
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your comments. Yes, perception is everything and I think where the Democrats fail, is believing that people are intelligent enough to realize that what is happening in the U.S. is happening in every other western country with regards to inflation and high gas prices. Like it or not, the U.S. is part of the global economy--that is why chips have not been made here for the past how many years. It is not Biden's fault. But Biden did something about it and passed the Chips Act which will take some time to implement. I heard a lot about that on the news and read about it. Biden also resumed federal oil and gas leasing in June of this year (though with a large reduction in acres available for drilling and a historic royalty rate increase), going back on his promise not to, to help with the global climate crisis. Oil companies, of course, are not rushing in because of the higher royalty rates which will cut into their usual gargantuan profits.
People see what they want to see, i.e., Skud. No amount of giving facts to the general public from Biden or top Democratic Congresspeople will change that. I have a 66 year old brother living in OK that is currently very sick. He and his wife have not been vaccinated and STILL believe there is no such thing as covid. Apparently they drove around to five different doctors to get someone to prescribe antibiotics for his illness. They refused every covid test (they do not want to add to the false narrative and it will just put money in the pockets of the doctors and hospitals). There is absolutely no way to convince them otherwise.
PL, Although you are correct that it is cheaper to manufacture over seas we have a habit of discouraging US manufacturing. We raise taxes on companies, bury companies with ridiculous regulations, and in big cities make it unsafe for their employees so they leave. It's not bidens fault that he gave away multi billions, shut down the country and attacked an industry we depend on. I guess it's not his fault we have 2 million people crossing the border and doing a walk about.
When your first day in office is spent excoriating the petroleum industry, shut down a pipeline, restrict drilling and say we are going to run you out of business it is hard to be excited about your future and spend billions exploring leases then having to wait years to drill. It would make more sense to have a business friendly approach instead of giving billions to build. Chip makers work on a huge margin so why give them all the money, sorry I forgot about the stumping for votes.
I have never understood why someone doesn't want to get vaccinated and I have some friends that refuse as well. Somehow you can't get rid of stupid and that caused us to nominate -H- which resulted in electing trump which caused us to elect biden. Can we do any worse.
Thank corporate greed for this problem.
Look beyond the narative BS put out by corpoations and.cons.
The conditioning is deep and effective.
Profit trumps all. Even when it hurts America.
No president can hold sway over private corporations. Only congress can with the laws they pass.
America is indeed in crisis. And cons just keep making worse daily.
Leslie, So in your mind it is OK for government to seize your money and give it to others and increase their wealth while producing nothing but not OK for a company to make a profit. By your statements I assume you do not have a pension because they are paid for from company profits. Your obsession with trump and the GOP while at the same time demonizing corporations is amazing.
You really are great at playing dense skuddie.
I run right of center on fiscal responsibility. Left of center on human and civil rights.
The rampant IRRESPONSIBILIY the right has displayed on national fiscal mattes has, in facr, pushed me leftward on mattrs of fiscal responsibility however.
I don't expect you to get it skuddie. And I do understand why. It's your ego clinging and fear.y compassion goes out to you.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Well... we have two examples of classic DJT supporters.
One an election denier, who brings no evidence to the table, much like the Trump acolytes. And why is that? Because there is none. Even Trump's own lawyers have stated in court, they have no evidence.
The other, a frustrated 5th grader intent on spouting off color jokes instead of responding to the post.
And folks wonder why our country is in a fix right now.
Possum... look no further than the HNS Mothership of Denial to see visually what I'm talking about.
They've got a cartoon showing American oil [energy] running out of an hourglass as Biden stands there clueless. Regardless of facts of evidence, it's how some in America feel.
Even when presented with evidence, even some of the data you presented, as they were on the now shuttered AOW site, they say they don't believe it.
It's willful ignorance for sure, but the GOP knows how to play that game 100 times better than the Dems.
Dave M.
This is how the Trumpers think:
“We already know Biden’s plans to cripple the country but we can only speculate as to by what percentage he will keep the Senate. The sycophants on most news channels are a microcosm of the popular support for the Democrat agenda. Never underestimate the “American People.”
And:
“Brain Dead Biden does not have a plan but his puppet masters do and it is to destroy the USA.”
Those quotes are from a blog that featured a commenter that called the J6 insurrection “A little bit of rowdiness.” They have no acquaintance with objective reality. They represent 30-35% of the voting population — that’s a lot, to be sure, but it’s also A MINORITY!
We face tyranny by a conservative minority Shaw. The gop and trumpublicans are simply better at the game of propaganda and creating a tribalistic environment.
I’m afraid to say you are correct, Les.
Ya just gotta love the delusional moments of the uninformed ego clinging cons. Living in their manufactured reality must really, really be painful.
Sal and Lolu... you trolls are adorable. You both should be poster children for massive ESL classes, because it's evident you could use some help with the language.
Then we can get to political science, civics, current events and history.
Dave,
I’ve suspended Comment Moderation because there was some sort of glitch that wouldn’t allow Infidel753 to post comments. That’s why Lisa’s trolls are showing up here. For now, I’ll tolerate their inane comments because it’s worth it to me to have Infidel753’s comments. However, I’ve deleted the troll’s comments, and I will continue to do so when I can.
I was at the Topsfield Fair today, and didn’t bother to check my comments until now.
Post a Comment