Evidence and reality have no place in a cult under a malevolent mendacious messiah.
Only their FEELINGS matter to them.
This is why racists, white supremacists, and Christian nationalists support Trump. It's ALL about their deep anger, resentment, and hate for kinder, more compassionate, more informed and more educated Americans.
Their BELIEFS must conform to the their sacred gospel and infallible words of their Felonious Fuhrer.
Those among the MAGGA sycophants that are educated are arrogant, greedy, power seeking authoritarians.
And they can't help but show us what they truly are all the time.
'How are you going to convince with evidence what the mob believed without evidence?' ~ F. Nietzsche
Try presenting BOTH sides critically and dispassionately?
Naaaaah! BOTH side are religio-ideological nutjobs pursuing entirely different and in many ways incommensurable visions of what they believe "The Good" to be..
The mob believed without evidence what the Liar, Cheat, and Fraud told them.
The evidence is that the 2020 election was not stolen. But the lying liar, who is now a convicted felon, adjudicated sexual assaulter /rapist, tax fraudster and facing dozens more felony charges is still selling that Big Lie to his dumb cultists.
...... BOTH sides are religio-idealogical nutjobs pursuing entirely different and in many ways incommensurable visions of what they belive "the GOOD" to be.
Including Therisites.
Ones conditioning, experiences, beliefs (beliefs are huge), attachments, desires, aversions, and lack of deep curiosity and single pointed focus on what is rests at the base and core of ignorance. We sleep and walk that path until open non conceptual awareness arises.
Frankly folks, ALL sides bear a degree of responsibility for our current political, social, and spiritual abyss.
Thersites... you're so cute. But I'll play along and offer you up a chance, if you can stay on topic.
The liberal/progressive of part of the January 6 insurrection/riot/tourist visit is that rioters supportive of President Trump "savagely and brutally" [quote from the GOP Senate report] beat over 130 police officers that day while they tried to protect Senators, Congressmen and VP Pence.
What is the conservative Trump supporting argument about that part of the events of the day?
Did what I am positing and the GOP Senate report alleges, happen, or is there another side I am missing. In a critical and dispassionate way of course.
Still waiting for the receipts showing he said go burn it down. We have the pro biden rioting faction say death to Israel and the illegals saying they would vote biden as soon as he grants the citizenship.ss proof just doesn't matter.
skud, I acknowledged your correct statement. I'm not so sure you will acknowledge anything I say here but I'm not saying it for you. You will always be you boo.
While the loser convicted felon never uttered the famous phrase "Burn it Down" his surrogates have been busy 'burning' up the airwaves with the phrase. Miller (S and J - not related), Bannon, Peters, Kirk, and a few more that I just can't remember and I'm not looking up that filth again. Ick. Took three showers to get their stench out of my brain. Anyway, they've been busy saying what was previously considered not fit for polite society out loud and proud. Good for them getting their thoughts together in Project 2025.
Back to Jan6, all Trump did was set the stage by speaking to the crowd; your my peeps, no one has better peeps than me, getting their emotions so high spontaneous chants broke out throughout the speech. He promised them evidence, in a minute, in a minute just like his Infrastructure Bill and alternative to the ACA. But onto the next item of grievance...
There never was evidence of wholesale voter fraud a fact missed by his emotionally drunk crowd, filled to the brim with the idea that they'd been cheated out of THEIR specific vision (Seven Mountains anyone?) by the Democratic party*.
Stage set, he doused it with accelerant and lit the match. And the crowd, ever faithful because that's the way they were raised back home did exactly as told. People died. People were forever harmed. And still there are deniers that it was 'that' bad.
I'm not sure the crowd completely understood their part in the shenanigans on Jan6, like all followers sometimes the leaders aren't as altruistic as one hoped. Add in a few loyal militia members to keep the shindig going and viola, we are still talking about an oversized man baby who just can't accept the consequences of his own actions.
Facts have been presented. It's all out there and yet the facts are ignored. Not sure how anyone can meet our three faced trolls metrics on presenting both sides.
Like one side played by the rules and the other decided they didn't like the result so they used force and cheating instead? Like that kind of both sides? The troll presents false equivalency as if it's something edgy. Just like the one they protect, a loser.
The convicted felon lied to his base, is still lying to them and now he has a whole posse of humans with that look in their eye as the reigns of power are just within their grasp. It's been said, I'll say it again. Vote as if your rights depend on it because they do. You want choices and a better caliber of candidate then be a better citizen. JFK - paraphrased - ask yourself what you can do for your country to make it a better place for our kids. Think seven generations down. For now, face reality.
*In MAGA Democratic Party = Communism, Marxism, Satanism, Godless, Aborting babies three days after birth (?), pedophiles (despite constant stories revealing the molesters inside the GOP aisle of life), and anti religion. There is more but there are character limits.
We ponder the phenomenon. Apparently an old one. "Men willingly believe what they wish" Julius Caesar" "The greatest deception men suffer in in their own opinions" Leonardo da Vinci "The less men think, the more they talk" Montesquieu People who know everything are a great annoyance to those of us that do" Isaac Asimov "In God we trust. all others must bring data" W.E. Deming
Grey, Really you say people died. Yes within 36 hours one died because they were shot by capital police, one died of an overdose and three died from natural causes. To some degree he did set the stage and didn't come forward soon enough but he didn't lead it and he was not there when it started. His saying he won is like -H- saying she won only she went on a three year tour to tout this.
I don't see a good candidate. One has to spend a week in isolation so he can learn what his job is all about and the other is, like you said a convicted felon. So far the things trump has been convicted of are bogus even according to governor cuomo. Joey is fine playing robin hood with taxpayer money and if you don't have anything to lose you are probably fine with it because it is a feel good moment. One thing covid did is if the government wants to make it subjects comply they can.
Blind ignorance will be the end of the American experiment in democratic self rule. As well MAGA stands for taking America back to less liberty, fewer freedoms, more federal control, and lesser prosperity.
The blind following the worst in our nation. What could go wrong?
What is the conservative Trump supporting argument about that part of the events of the day?
When the exact same thing happened a few months earlier a few blocks down from the Capitol (at the WH), and the BLMers set fire to a church across the street from the Whitehouse....
MAGA apologist Skud defends Trump and accuses Hillary of worse behavior: To some degree he did set the stage and didn't come forward soon enough but he didn't lead it and he was not there when it started. His saying he won is like -H- saying she won only she went on a three year tour to tout this."
Wow.
He absolutely summoned his mob, LIED to them to agitate them into a rage, and sent them to the Capitol to "Fight like hell", "take your country back", and "stop the steal".
This means only one thing, and the mob sure as hell knew it. STOP THE COUNT AND OVERTURN THE ELECTION!
He TOLD them he would be there with them. The mob clearly followed their leader's ORDERS.
"He didn't come forward soon enough" because he WANTED his thugs to succeed!!
DAMN, Skud. Minimizing Trump's worst crimes shows us you have a high tolerance for fascism.
Skuds and his pals do the usual. resort to non arguments because the facts support nothing they're deluded beliefs tell them to. It's following the Trump reasoning of saying there are good people on both sides. I've never seen a good nazi but apparently my conservative friends here think there are so that makes supporting the guy that willfully panders to them okay.
Joe Conservative said..."What is the conservative Trump supporting argument about that part of the events of the day?
When the exact same thing happened a few months earlier a few blocks down from the Capitol (at the WH), and the BLMers set fire to a church across the street from the Whitehouse...."
The "exact same thing" DID NOT HAPPEN a few months earlier.
BLM did NOT try to interfere with a Constitutionally mandated procedure -- the certification of the electoral count. That is a crime against the USA, incited and implemented by Trump and his armed mobs in order for Trump to steal the election from Joe Biden and grab power that he did not earn.
Every single court where Trumpers tried to prove the election was stolen found NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT LIE. NONE! Yet you and the Trump cultists cling to that fantasy.
skudrunner: "...and he was not there when it started."
I'd like you to answer this, skud:
Trump was "not there when it started," meaning the insurrection and the beating of Capitol police.
YET TRUMP WATCHED IT ALL PLAY OUT ON TV FOR 3 hours!
He sat for hours watching the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol unfold on live TV, ignoring pleas by his children and other close advisers to urge his supporters to stop the violence, witnesses told a congressional hearing on the insurrection. Trump's refusal to act for the 187 minutes between the end of his inflammatory speech at a rally urging supporters to march on the Capitol, and the release of a video telling them to go home.
"President Trump sat at his dining table and watched the attack on television while his senior-most staff, closest advisors and family members begged him to do what is expected of any American president," said Democratic Representative Elaine Luria. The panel played videotaped testimony from White House aides and security staff discussing the events of the day.
Former White House counsel Pat Cipollone was asked question after question in the recorded testimony about Trump's actions: did he call the secretary of defense? The attorney general? The head of Homeland Security? Cipollone answered "no" to each query."
"NO! to each query."
NOW THAT YOU KNOW THESE FACTS, SKUD, PLEASE TELL US WHAT SORT OF PRESIDENT WOULD WATCH AN ATTACK BY HIS MOBS ON OUR CAPITOL AND DO NOTHING!
NOTHING. FOR 3 HOURS WHILE PEOPLE WERE BEING BEATEN AND KILLED.
APPARENTLY YOU ARE SO MARINATED IN TRUMPISM THAT YOU BELIEVE THE MAN WHO DID THAT IS FAR BETTER THAN JOE BIDEN.
Ti's best to simply ignore stunning. Because reified stunning seems either incapable or unwilling to accept truth or evidence that contradicts the ego and its reified stuning beliefs.
What an oddity. Bush lost the popular vote to Gore, Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary (by 3 million) and Biden (by 7 million. Neither Gore nor Hillary whined or sent thugs to the Whitehouse, hired slates of fake electors or sued and lost dozens of chicken liver cases. The old tired Biden sponsored the CHP act, bringing Idaho the biggest microchip facility in the world, thousands of jobs and interdicting the China and Asian dominance of that critical industry. But Wait! There's more - both Idaho senators and both Idaho congressmen voted against it. MAGA Brainwashed, that's what they used to call in in military psy ops. Odder yet- orchestrated by a loser who paid someone to take his SAT college entrance test.
Regarding the church burning in DC that Joe mentioned.
First, that has nothing to do with the events of Jan 6. Nothing At. All.
This is a favorite tactic of the J6 denial crowd. Instead of owning up to what happened, they deflect to another event as some sort of equivalency. Which certainly in this case, does not exist.
There was no mob attacking the DC church, it was one person, as best as the police can tell. Certainly not thousands. No one was hurt, as opposed to over 130 police officers being savagely and brutally beaten by Trump supporters, according to the GOP Senate report.
Police are still searching for the fire starter(s) and if found, charges will be filed.
But let's be honest, the church is not a US federal government facility. It is private. Little to no damage occurred, and no one was injured. And there is no evidence at all that the criminal, still at large, was/is connected to BLM.
None.
You see Joe, lefties don't invade government buildings, take them over, vandalize them and injure people too often. That generally falls to the MAGA and Bundy extremists.
So now, how about it? Can you or any other conservative or MAGA supporter here make the case in support of the events of Jan 6?
You guys claim there's another view about that so just share it. Because maybe what we saw happen that day has another interpretation.
Comments I expected. When -H- was SS she slept through the killing at the embassy and when joey b caused the deaths of 13 people with his ill advised pull out of Afghanistan it wasn't his fault. When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own. When trump followers act stupid is is trumps fault. It has no relevance that the FBI ignored hunters laptop, no relevance that the DNC spent years citing russia and hitler in connection with trump. I don't think he is innocent and should shoulder blame but so should joey b. How many illegals need to kill and rape our citizens before joey is blamed for something. He is never at fault so what does he do.
skud: "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
I've googled "BLM takes over a military recruiting center" and google came up with nothing. Can you please give me a link.
Also, if the military recruiting center is in a city or state, then NO, President Biden can't interfere. The Constitution gives authority over policing to the states. Each state and territory has its own legal and court system to handle criminal matters.
skud: "When trump followers act stupid is is trumps fault."
When Trump incited his armed mobs to "fight like hell" and told them that Mike Pence had to do the right thing (stop the electoral vote certification), and when he continued to lie and say the 2020 election was stolen, then YES! The attack on the US Capitol, where feces were smeared and Capitol police were beaten by Trump's armed mobs, WAS HIS FAULT. The people who went on trial and were convicted TESTIFIED AT THEIR TRIALS THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE TRUMP TOLD THEM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!
I don't know where you get your information, but it is abundantly clear that it is incomplete.
skud: "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
"According to a report from the U.S. Department of Homeland security, over 200 federal buildings were damaged during Black Lives Matter protests between May and July 2020. The report found that the majority of the damage was caused by graffiti, with windows being broken in almost half of the incidents."
Trump was POTUS between May and July 2020; was it Trump's fault?
Ol' Skud is certain Biden is to blame for a terrorist attack in Afghanistan.
And he seems to think Trump isn't to blame for sending his mob of thugs to terrorize Congress, beat cops bloody and overturn our election.
He blames Biden for immigrant crime during his presidency, but never Trump for the same crimes during his term.
Skud whines that "the DNC spent years citing russia and hitler in connection with trump".
Does Skud know Trump's kids boasted about getting money from Russia? Does Skud know the Russian mob rented in Trump Tower? Does Skud know Trump's campaign met with Russians in Trump Tower for dirt on Hillary.
Does Skud know Trump invited Russia to interfere in 2016? "Russia, if you're listening..."? They were listening and they did interfere. Does Skud know Mueller concluded Trump WELCOMED Russian interference?
Does Skud know Trump removed all the American press and filled the Oval Office with Russians, where he bragged about firing Comey to kill the investigation into Russian election interference? Does Skud know Trump then GAVE SECRETS TO RUSSIANS IN THE OVAL OFFICE!!
Does Skud know Trump praised Putin and Hitler, AND promised to be a dictator on day one?
Does Skud know admitted he wanted OUR generals to be LOYAL to HIM, like "Hitler's generals" were to Hitler? (Does Skud know disgrace former general and pardoned Trump loyalist Mike Flynn recently met with fellow neo-Nazis at their paramilitary training camp called “88 Tactical”? “H” is the eighth letter. In neo-Nazi code 88 = Heil Hitler.)
Does Skud know Trump told General Kelly, "Hitler did a lot of good things".
Why does Skud think the DNC shouldn't remind Americans of this? Is Skud partial to Putin as well as to Trump?
This spew from Skud is isn't a moderate speaking, or even showing both-siderism. This is pure radical Right indoctrination.
"I don't think he (Trump) is innocent and should shoulder blame."
Skud couldn't think of ONE of Trump's crimes to shoulder the blame.
skud knows exactly what his ego allows him to know. That is whatever is most supportive of the far right authoritarian agenda. To hell with democracy and our democratic republic is the juice behind MAGA and apparently skud if full in behind it.
Ms. Shaw, You are correct and I apologize that I credited incompetent joey with an action by BLM when in fact it was the evil one.
"TESTIFIED AT THEIR TRIALS THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE TRUMP TOLD THEM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!" And on Christmas eve a sleigh landed on my roof. The are still people who believe biden is competent so you can't judge an action by a limited sample of beliefs. Trump believed he was the winner much as -H- believed she was. The biggest difference is -H- had limited support even after doing talk shows for three years selling her victim story.
There seem to be a couple of items on this thread that are being conflated under the BLM did this banner.
Joe brought up damage to a church close to the White House he said was vandalized by "BLMers". Before that can even be considered, Joe needs to show some link between the "BLMers" and that small fire that did no real damage to the church.
Then we have the BLM protests of 2020. No one can deny that some of those protests got out of hand, became violent and that there was costly property damage. Also, there were significant numbers of people who died as a result of those protests.
To date, hundreds of protestors have been arrested, charged and imprisoned by various law enforcement agencies, including the US Department of Justice.
The violence was roundly condemned by leaders of the Democratic Party and other left leaning political leaders, as well as the GOP. Protest is fine they generally said, but violence is never acceptable.
No Constitutionally required actions were disrupted, no Senators, Congressmen or even a Vice President ever felt their lives were in danger or feared being hanged.
Plenty of police were injured though, and again, political leaders of all stripess were quick to condemn the violence against the police.
One thing we've never heard regarding those BLM protestors who are/were sitting in jail, is that they are freedom fighters or hostages. At least not from any Democratic political leader.
And we certainly never had a Dem presidential candidate defending the violence of that summer.
I sometimes think you and I speak two different languages. Here's an example in our recent exchange:
YOU wrote: "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
In order to illustrate that when BLM became disorderly and caused property damage and injury to humans, Biden was not to blame! Biden did NOT GIVE A SPEECH INCITING THEM TO RIOT! And I gave you an example of the fact that BLM rioted in 2020 while Trump was POTUS and NO ONE, including you, placed the BLM riots on Trump:
"According to a report from the U.S. Department of Homeland security, over 200 federal buildings were damaged during Black Lives Matter protests between May and July 2020. The report found that the majority of the damage was caused by graffiti, with windows being broken in almost half of the incidents."
Trump was POTUS between May and July 2020; was it Trump's fault?
To which you answered:
"Ms. Shaw, You are correct and I apologize that I credited incompetent joey with an action by BLM when in fact it was the evil one."
Which clearly shows that you completely misunderstood the point of my answer to you, even though I wrote it in easily understandable English.
skud quoted my text: "TESTIFIED AT THEIR TRIALS THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE TRUMP TOLD THEM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!"
SKUD replied: "And on Christmas eve a sleigh landed on my roof. The are still people who believe biden is competent so you can't judge an action by a limited sample of beliefs."
Did you not understand what the word "TESTIFIED" means? The Jan. 6 rioters TESTIFIED UNDER OATH at their trials that they were there that day because Trump told them the election was stolen! IOW, and in plain English, Trump INCITED his armed mobs to storm the Capitol and stop the electoral vote certification!
That has NOTHING to do with a "belief." Those Jan. 6 rioters testified under penalty of perjury to why they were there. And that testimony gave weight to the fact that Donald Trump, as POTUS on that day, INCITED the mobs to attack the US Capitol.
skud wrote: "Trump believed he was the winner much as -H- believed she was."
A day after the 2020 election, Hillary Clinton conceded the election.
To this day, Trump has not conceded the 2020 election and is till telling his cultists that it was a stolen election, and his delusional and easily conned followers STILL believe his lies.
skud wrote: "The biggest difference is -H- had limited support even after doing talk shows for three years selling her victim story."
That is the funniest thing I've read so far today, and it's still morning. Trump is the ultimate victim who continues his Big Lie, crying about a stolen election. And here you are projecting that insane behavior onto Hillary Clinton! Very funny!
Somehow the far right folks always seem to forget or do not want to accept that many people rioting in 2020 were in fact far right agitators, especially in Minneapolis. From Congress.gov:
"Minnesota Governor Tim Walz echoed this sentiment in a press conference on Saturday alleging that the demonstrations that caused so much damage included provocateurs, likely from outside the area. State officials said around 80 percent of those arrested in the Twin Cities on Friday were from outside Minnesota. Former FBI agent and CNN commentator, Josh Campbell wrote , that Minnesota “authorities have been monitoring alleged criminals online, including postings by suspected white supremacists trying to incite violence.” Before the rioting started in Washington DC, Brooklyn, Denver, Atlanta, and other cities, allegations emerged that undercover police officers might be to blame for some of the worst commercial destruction in Minneapolis. Experts on political violence (and not just Qanon conspiracy theorists) shared stories on social media that the May 27 looting and arson at AutoZone by an unidentified man in a gas mask carrying an open umbrella (dubbed #umbrellaman) was not necessarily a protester but could be an agent provocateur or member of the police. In video posted to YouTube , while this man smashed windows with a hammer, protesters at the scene accused him of being an outsider and began to film him."
"Thing is, of course, Joe illegitimately took the helm 3 years ago...Joe Biden stole a presidential election in the wee hours of election night..."
This pack of lies was taken off the Geeez blog where she and her benighted Trump cultist commenters cling to the delusion, against all attested to facts, that the 2020 election was stolen.
No mater the amount of evidence to the contrary, those poor Trumpers will never change their beliefs because they are victims of this:
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” --Carl Sagan
Creating Delusion and Obscuration of truth is the methodology of authoritarians. Trump has proven to be a master at it. And he has millions of obscured deluded followers. The folks who need "big daddy" to tell them what to beliee.
skud said "When -H- was SS she slept through the killing at the embassy"
You mean Benghazi? With the multiple investigations that Kevin McCarthy spilled the beans on to say they knew the attack and loss of lives wasn't her fault but continued to hurt Hillary's chances in the upcoming presidential election? That embassy? Talk about your election interference and yet the GOP was oddly ok with it. Apparently so is skud.
skud says "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
What is skud talking about? I looked and then looked again. Black Lives Matter didn't occupy a military recruitment center. No record anywhere so why would skud say it let alone blame Biden for something that never happened? Oh wait, I know the blame Biden thing is their go to position on all things politic.
What I did find about BLM and that summer matches what Shaw and possumlady said. BLM leaders at the time pushed for their protests to be nonviolent and for the most part they were. It wasn't until A) White supremacist provocateurs or B) the cops started something that the protests turned violent. Most of the damage done to Federal buildings caused by fires was minimal. As for who was responsible for the violence see exhibit A and B. (I remember watching a candlelight protest where everyone was behaving themselves. Then the cops came in and tear gassed the crowd for... reasons? There were kids at the protest, families who were harmed by the actions of police. Yes, the police station was burned that night but honestly, if they hadn't started nothing there wouldn't have been something.
It was very brave of skud to get in a cheap shot regarding the topic of Hunter Bidens laptop, but oh sweet boo, you don't have the bandwidth to comprehend the ins and outs of the laptop case. I mean, you seem to equate your personal belief in a mythical character who flies around in a sleigh pulled by reindeer with testimony given in front of a court. totally the same, amirite?
For the rest of you curious about the laptop case I recommend Marcy Wheeler at emptywheel for THE absolute breakdown of it all. Based on her journalism what the GOP did to that poor drug addicted soul who admitted to making mistakes and is doing his best to make amends.... To say they perpetrated a hit job is too kind but cruelty is the point with the GOP after all.
Last word? I bet skud still mourns the loss of all those souls lost at the Bowling Green Massacre, may their sacrifice be never forgotten.
Narrators whisper - The Bowling Green Massacre never happened, Kellyanne Conway made it up but that didn't stop MAGA from repeating the lie until due to being mocked so heavily the topic was finally dropped. I have the memes, it was brutal war by sarcasm.
I will admit I did make an error which I do some of the time. Reminds me when the swell guy mocked romney, with the help of the moderator, for saying russia was out biggest threat. Even someone who has a staff to look things up can make an error. Of course 20 years later shite spent years investigating russia and trump to no avail. Even though it has been shown russia interfered with the election, HOW.
Skud, I've posted this information countless times. You can find the details in the 448-page Mueller Report and in other sites on the internet.
Russia interfered in the 2016 election. That is a fact.
You keep claim there was no interference and that is not correct. I don't know why there are Americans who stubbornly refuse to read the report and, instead, repeat false claims.
The 448-page Mueller report contains copious detail about how Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, both by using social media to influence American voters with misinformation and by hacking into the Clinton campaign’s computers. Russian operatives also connected with WikiLeaks to release the stolen material.
Through two years of this investigation, through the indictment of 34 individuals, and then spelled out clearly in his final report, Robert Mueller made one thing crystal clear: Russia attempted to interfere with our 2016 election.
Mueller lays this out, like the entire report, essentially as a large outline, saying Russia attacked in two ways.
He writes, first, that it carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump. And, second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer intrusion operations against entities, employees and volunteers working on the Clinton campaign. Translation: Russia used the Internet to fool American voters and hackers to attack Democratic computer networks.
40 comments:
Yap... how to brainwash people into believing your shitty propaganda...
that is what totalitarians in all time feel very challenged to accomplish.
Yawn.
Evidence and reality have no place in a cult under a malevolent mendacious messiah.
Only their FEELINGS matter to them.
This is why racists, white supremacists, and Christian nationalists support Trump. It's ALL about their deep anger, resentment, and hate for kinder, more compassionate, more informed and more educated Americans.
Their BELIEFS must conform to the their sacred gospel and infallible words of their Felonious Fuhrer.
Those among the MAGGA sycophants that are educated are arrogant, greedy, power seeking authoritarians.
And they can't help but show us what they truly are all the time.
'How are you going to convince with evidence what the mob believed without evidence?' ~ F. Nietzsche
Try presenting BOTH sides critically and dispassionately?
Naaaaah! BOTH side are religio-ideological nutjobs pursuing entirely different and in many ways incommensurable visions of what they believe "The Good" to be..
The mob believed without evidence what the Liar, Cheat, and Fraud told them.
The evidence is that the 2020 election was not stolen. But the lying liar, who is now a convicted felon, adjudicated sexual assaulter /rapist, tax fraudster and facing dozens more felony charges is still selling that Big Lie to his dumb cultists.
Thersites is correct on this point:
...... BOTH sides are religio-idealogical nutjobs pursuing entirely different and in many ways incommensurable visions of what they belive "the GOOD" to be.
Including Therisites.
Ones conditioning, experiences, beliefs (beliefs are huge), attachments, desires, aversions, and lack of deep curiosity and single pointed focus on what is rests at the base and core of ignorance. We sleep and walk that path until open non conceptual awareness arises.
Frankly folks, ALL sides bear a degree of responsibility for our current political, social, and spiritual abyss.
Namaste
You cannot get people to believe what they do not want to believe.
Thersites... you're so cute. But I'll play along and offer you up a chance, if you can stay on topic.
The liberal/progressive of part of the January 6 insurrection/riot/tourist visit is that rioters supportive of President Trump "savagely and brutally" [quote from the GOP Senate report] beat over 130 police officers that day while they tried to protect Senators, Congressmen and VP Pence.
What is the conservative Trump supporting argument about that part of the events of the day?
Did what I am positing and the GOP Senate report alleges, happen, or is there another side I am missing. In a critical and dispassionate way of course.
Still waiting for the receipts showing he said go burn it down. We have the pro biden rioting faction say death to Israel and the illegals saying they would vote biden as soon as he grants the citizenship.ss proof just doesn't matter.
You are correct skud, Trump, convicted felon, convicted of sexual assault, loser of the 2020 election never used the specific words 'Burn it down."
Well, Netanyahu needs to go. Butchers are evil.
skud, I acknowledged your correct statement. I'm not so sure you will acknowledge anything I say here but I'm not saying it for you. You will always be you boo.
While the loser convicted felon never uttered the famous phrase "Burn it Down" his surrogates have been busy 'burning' up the airwaves with the phrase. Miller (S and J - not related), Bannon, Peters, Kirk, and a few more that I just can't remember and I'm not looking up that filth again. Ick. Took three showers to get their stench out of my brain. Anyway, they've been busy saying what was previously considered not fit for polite society out loud and proud. Good for them getting their thoughts together in Project 2025.
Back to Jan6, all Trump did was set the stage by speaking to the crowd; your my peeps, no one has better peeps than me, getting their emotions so high spontaneous chants broke out throughout the speech. He promised them evidence, in a minute, in a minute just like his Infrastructure Bill and alternative to the ACA. But onto the next item of grievance...
There never was evidence of wholesale voter fraud a fact missed by his emotionally drunk crowd, filled to the brim with the idea that they'd been cheated out of THEIR specific vision (Seven Mountains anyone?) by the Democratic party*.
Stage set, he doused it with accelerant and lit the match. And the crowd, ever faithful because that's the way they were raised back home did exactly as told. People died. People were forever harmed. And still there are deniers that it was 'that' bad.
I'm not sure the crowd completely understood their part in the shenanigans on Jan6, like all followers sometimes the leaders aren't as altruistic as one hoped. Add in a few loyal militia members to keep the shindig going and viola, we are still talking about an oversized man baby who just can't accept the consequences of his own actions.
Facts have been presented. It's all out there and yet the facts are ignored. Not sure how anyone can meet our three faced trolls metrics on presenting both sides.
Like one side played by the rules and the other decided they didn't like the result so they used force and cheating instead? Like that kind of both sides? The troll presents false equivalency as if it's something edgy. Just like the one they protect, a loser.
The convicted felon lied to his base, is still lying to them and now he has a whole posse of humans with that look in their eye as the reigns of power are just within their grasp. It's been said, I'll say it again. Vote as if your rights depend on it because they do. You want choices and a better caliber of candidate then be a better citizen. JFK - paraphrased - ask yourself what you can do for your country to make it a better place for our kids. Think seven generations down. For now, face reality.
*In MAGA Democratic Party = Communism, Marxism, Satanism, Godless, Aborting babies three days after birth (?), pedophiles (despite constant stories revealing the molesters inside the GOP aisle of life), and anti religion. There is more but there are character limits.
We ponder the phenomenon. Apparently an old one.
"Men willingly believe what they wish" Julius Caesar"
"The greatest deception men suffer in in their own opinions" Leonardo da Vinci
"The less men think, the more they talk" Montesquieu
People who know everything are a great annoyance to those of us that do" Isaac Asimov
"In God we trust. all others must bring data" W.E. Deming
Grey, Really you say people died. Yes within 36 hours one died because they were shot by capital police, one died of an overdose and three died from natural causes. To some degree he did set the stage and didn't come forward soon enough but he didn't lead it and he was not there when it started. His saying he won is like -H- saying she won only she went on a three year tour to tout this.
I don't see a good candidate. One has to spend a week in isolation so he can learn what his job is all about and the other is, like you said a convicted felon. So far the things trump has been convicted of are bogus even according to governor cuomo. Joey is fine playing robin hood with taxpayer money and if you don't have anything to lose you are probably fine with it because it is a feel good moment. One thing covid did is if the government wants to make it subjects comply they can.
Blind ignorance will be the end of the American experiment in democratic self rule. As well MAGA stands for taking America back to less liberty, fewer freedoms, more federal control, and lesser prosperity.
The blind following the worst in our nation. What could go wrong?
What is the conservative Trump supporting argument about that part of the events of the day?
When the exact same thing happened a few months earlier a few blocks down from the Capitol (at the WH), and the BLMers set fire to a church across the street from the Whitehouse....
Tit-4-Tat.
...in other words, you typical liberal "peaceful" protest.
MAGA apologist Skud defends Trump and accuses Hillary of worse behavior:
To some degree he did set the stage and didn't come forward soon enough but he didn't lead it and he was not there when it started. His saying he won is like -H- saying she won only she went on a three year tour to tout this."
Wow.
He absolutely summoned his mob, LIED to them to agitate them into a rage, and sent them to the Capitol to "Fight like hell", "take your country back", and "stop the steal".
This means only one thing, and the mob sure as hell knew it. STOP THE COUNT AND OVERTURN THE ELECTION!
He TOLD them he would be there with them. The mob clearly followed their leader's ORDERS.
"He didn't come forward soon enough" because he WANTED his thugs to succeed!!
DAMN, Skud. Minimizing Trump's worst crimes shows us you have a high tolerance for fascism.
I have no doubt you will vote for him.
Skuds and his pals do the usual. resort to non arguments because the facts support nothing they're deluded beliefs tell them to. It's following the Trump reasoning of saying there are good people on both sides. I've never seen a good nazi but apparently my conservative friends here think there are so that makes supporting the guy that willfully panders to them okay.
Joe Conservative said..."What is the conservative Trump supporting argument about that part of the events of the day?
When the exact same thing happened a few months earlier a few blocks down from the Capitol (at the WH), and the BLMers set fire to a church across the street from the Whitehouse...."
The "exact same thing" DID NOT HAPPEN a few months earlier.
BLM did NOT try to interfere with a Constitutionally mandated procedure -- the certification of the electoral count. That is a crime against the USA, incited and implemented by Trump and his armed mobs in order for Trump to steal the election from Joe Biden and grab power that he did not earn.
Every single court where Trumpers tried to prove the election was stolen found NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT LIE. NONE! Yet you and the Trump cultists cling to that fantasy.
skudrunner: "...and he was not there when it started."
I'd like you to answer this, skud:
Trump was "not there when it started," meaning the insurrection and the beating of Capitol police.
YET TRUMP WATCHED IT ALL PLAY OUT ON TV FOR 3 hours!
He sat for hours watching the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol unfold on live TV, ignoring pleas by his children and other close advisers to urge his supporters to stop the violence, witnesses told a congressional hearing on the insurrection.
Trump's refusal to act for the 187 minutes between the end of his inflammatory speech at a rally urging supporters to march on the Capitol, and the release of a video telling them to go home.
"President Trump sat at his dining table and watched the attack on television while his senior-most staff, closest advisors and family members begged him to do what is expected of any American president," said Democratic Representative Elaine Luria.
The panel played videotaped testimony from White House aides and security staff discussing the events of the day.
Former White House counsel Pat Cipollone was asked question after question in the recorded testimony about Trump's actions: did he call the secretary of defense? The attorney general? The head of Homeland Security? Cipollone answered "no" to each query."
"NO! to each query."
NOW THAT YOU KNOW THESE FACTS, SKUD, PLEASE TELL US WHAT SORT OF PRESIDENT WOULD WATCH AN ATTACK BY HIS MOBS ON OUR CAPITOL AND DO NOTHING!
NOTHING. FOR 3 HOURS WHILE PEOPLE WERE BEING BEATEN AND KILLED.
APPARENTLY YOU ARE SO MARINATED IN TRUMPISM THAT YOU BELIEVE THE MAN WHO DID THAT IS FAR BETTER THAN JOE BIDEN.
THAT IS STUNNING!
Ti's best to simply ignore stunning. Because reified stunning seems either incapable or unwilling to accept truth or evidence that contradicts the ego and its reified stuning beliefs.
What an oddity. Bush lost the popular vote to Gore, Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary
(by 3 million) and Biden (by 7 million. Neither Gore nor Hillary whined or sent thugs to the Whitehouse, hired slates of fake electors or sued and lost dozens of chicken liver cases.
The old tired Biden sponsored the CHP act, bringing Idaho the biggest microchip facility in
the world, thousands of jobs and interdicting the China and Asian dominance of that critical industry. But Wait! There's more - both Idaho senators and both Idaho congressmen voted against it. MAGA Brainwashed, that's what they used to call in in military psy ops. Odder yet-
orchestrated by a loser who paid someone to take his SAT college entrance test.
Regarding the church burning in DC that Joe mentioned.
First, that has nothing to do with the events of Jan 6. Nothing At. All.
This is a favorite tactic of the J6 denial crowd. Instead of owning up to what happened, they deflect to another event as some sort of equivalency. Which certainly in this case, does not exist.
There was no mob attacking the DC church, it was one person, as best as the police can tell. Certainly not thousands. No one was hurt, as opposed to over 130 police officers being savagely and brutally beaten by Trump supporters, according to the GOP Senate report.
Police are still searching for the fire starter(s) and if found, charges will be filed.
But let's be honest, the church is not a US federal government facility. It is private. Little to no damage occurred, and no one was injured. And there is no evidence at all that the criminal, still at large, was/is connected to BLM.
None.
You see Joe, lefties don't invade government buildings, take them over, vandalize them and injure people too often. That generally falls to the MAGA and Bundy extremists.
So now, how about it? Can you or any other conservative or MAGA supporter here make the case in support of the events of Jan 6?
You guys claim there's another view about that so just share it. Because maybe what we saw happen that day has another interpretation.
Comments I expected. When -H- was SS she slept through the killing at the embassy and when joey b caused the deaths of 13 people with his ill advised pull out of Afghanistan it wasn't his fault. When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own. When trump followers act stupid is is trumps fault.
It has no relevance that the FBI ignored hunters laptop, no relevance that the DNC spent years citing russia and hitler in connection with trump.
I don't think he is innocent and should shoulder blame but so should joey b. How many illegals need to kill and rape our citizens before joey is blamed for something. He is never at fault so what does he do.
skud: "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
I've googled "BLM takes over a military recruiting center" and google came up with nothing. Can you please give me a link.
Also, if the military recruiting center is in a city or state, then NO, President Biden can't interfere. The Constitution gives authority over policing to the states. Each state and territory has its own legal and court system to handle criminal matters.
skud: "When trump followers act stupid is is trumps fault."
When Trump incited his armed mobs to "fight like hell" and told them that Mike Pence had to do the right thing (stop the electoral vote certification), and when he continued to lie and say the 2020 election was stolen, then YES! The attack on the US Capitol, where feces were smeared and Capitol police were beaten by Trump's armed mobs, WAS HIS FAULT. The people who went on trial and were convicted TESTIFIED AT THEIR TRIALS THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE TRUMP TOLD THEM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!
I don't know where you get your information, but it is abundantly clear that it is incomplete.
skud: "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
"According to a report from the U.S. Department of Homeland security, over 200 federal buildings were damaged during Black Lives Matter protests between May and July 2020. The report found that the majority of the damage was caused by graffiti, with windows being broken in almost half of the incidents."
Trump was POTUS between May and July 2020; was it Trump's fault?
Ol' Skud is certain Biden is to blame for a terrorist attack in Afghanistan.
And he seems to think Trump isn't to blame for sending his mob of thugs to terrorize Congress, beat cops bloody and overturn our election.
He blames Biden for immigrant crime during his presidency, but never Trump for the same crimes during his term.
Skud whines that "the DNC spent years citing russia and hitler in connection with trump".
Does Skud know Trump's kids boasted about getting money from Russia? Does Skud know the Russian mob rented in Trump Tower? Does Skud know Trump's campaign met with Russians in Trump Tower for dirt on Hillary.
Does Skud know Trump invited Russia to interfere in 2016? "Russia, if you're listening..."? They were listening and they did interfere. Does Skud know Mueller concluded Trump WELCOMED Russian interference?
Does Skud know Trump removed all the American press and filled the Oval Office with Russians, where he bragged about firing Comey to kill the investigation into Russian election interference? Does Skud know Trump then GAVE SECRETS TO RUSSIANS IN THE OVAL OFFICE!!
Does Skud know Trump praised Putin and Hitler, AND promised to be a dictator on day one?
Does Skud know admitted he wanted OUR generals to be LOYAL to HIM, like "Hitler's generals" were to Hitler? (Does Skud know disgrace former general and pardoned Trump loyalist Mike Flynn recently met with fellow neo-Nazis at their paramilitary training camp called “88 Tactical”? “H” is the eighth letter. In neo-Nazi code 88 = Heil Hitler.)
Does Skud know Trump told General Kelly, "Hitler did a lot of good things".
Why does Skud think the DNC shouldn't remind Americans of this? Is Skud partial to Putin as well as to Trump?
This spew from Skud is isn't a moderate speaking, or even showing both-siderism. This is pure radical Right indoctrination.
"I don't think he (Trump) is innocent and should shoulder blame."
Skud couldn't think of ONE of Trump's crimes to shoulder the blame.
skud knows exactly what his ego allows him to know. That is whatever is most supportive of the far right authoritarian agenda. To hell with democracy and our democratic republic is the juice behind MAGA and apparently skud if full in behind it.
Ms. Shaw, You are correct and I apologize that I credited incompetent joey with an action by BLM when in fact it was the evil one.
"TESTIFIED AT THEIR TRIALS THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE TRUMP TOLD THEM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!"
And on Christmas eve a sleigh landed on my roof. The are still people who believe biden is competent so you can't judge an action by a limited sample of beliefs. Trump believed he was the winner much as -H- believed she was. The biggest difference is -H- had limited support even after doing talk shows for three years selling her victim story.
There seem to be a couple of items on this thread that are being conflated under the BLM did this banner.
Joe brought up damage to a church close to the White House he said was vandalized by "BLMers". Before that can even be considered, Joe needs to show some link between the "BLMers" and that small fire that did no real damage to the church.
Then we have the BLM protests of 2020. No one can deny that some of those protests got out of hand, became violent and that there was costly property damage. Also, there were significant numbers of people who died as a result of those protests.
To date, hundreds of protestors have been arrested, charged and imprisoned by various law enforcement agencies, including the US Department of Justice.
The violence was roundly condemned by leaders of the Democratic Party and other left leaning political leaders, as well as the GOP. Protest is fine they generally said, but violence is never acceptable.
No Constitutionally required actions were disrupted, no Senators, Congressmen or even a Vice President ever felt their lives were in danger or feared being hanged.
Plenty of police were injured though, and again, political leaders of all stripess were quick to condemn the violence against the police.
One thing we've never heard regarding those BLM protestors who are/were sitting in jail, is that they are freedom fighters or hostages. At least not from any Democratic political leader.
And we certainly never had a Dem presidential candidate defending the violence of that summer.
I wonder why?
skud,
I sometimes think you and I speak two different languages. Here's an example in our recent exchange:
YOU wrote: "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
In order to illustrate that when BLM became disorderly and caused property damage and injury to humans, Biden was not to blame! Biden did NOT GIVE A SPEECH INCITING THEM TO RIOT! And I gave you an example of the fact that BLM rioted in 2020 while Trump was POTUS and NO ONE, including you, placed the BLM riots on Trump:
"According to a report from the U.S. Department of Homeland security, over 200 federal buildings were damaged during Black Lives Matter protests between May and July 2020. The report found that the majority of the damage was caused by graffiti, with windows being broken in almost half of the incidents."
Trump was POTUS between May and July 2020; was it Trump's fault?
To which you answered:
"Ms. Shaw, You are correct and I apologize that I credited incompetent joey with an action by BLM when in fact it was the evil one."
Which clearly shows that you completely misunderstood the point of my answer to you, even though I wrote it in easily understandable English.
I give up on trying to help you understand this.
skud quoted my text: "TESTIFIED AT THEIR TRIALS THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE TRUMP TOLD THEM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!"
SKUD replied: "And on Christmas eve a sleigh landed on my roof. The are still people who believe biden is competent so you can't judge an action by a limited sample of beliefs."
Did you not understand what the word "TESTIFIED" means? The Jan. 6 rioters TESTIFIED UNDER OATH at their trials that they were there that day because Trump told them the election was stolen! IOW, and in plain English, Trump INCITED his armed mobs to storm the Capitol and stop the electoral vote certification!
That has NOTHING to do with a "belief." Those Jan. 6 rioters testified under penalty of perjury to why they were there. And that testimony gave weight to the fact that Donald Trump, as POTUS on that day, INCITED the mobs to attack the US Capitol.
skud wrote: "Trump believed he was the winner much as -H- believed she was."
A day after the 2020 election, Hillary Clinton conceded the election.
To this day, Trump has not conceded the 2020 election and is till telling his cultists that it was a stolen election, and his delusional and easily conned followers STILL believe his lies.
skud wrote: "The biggest difference is -H- had limited support even after doing talk shows for three years selling her victim story."
That is the funniest thing I've read so far today, and it's still morning. Trump is the ultimate victim who continues his Big Lie, crying about a stolen election. And here you are projecting that insane behavior onto Hillary Clinton! Very funny!
Somehow the far right folks always seem to forget or do not want to accept that many people rioting in 2020 were in fact far right agitators, especially in Minneapolis. From Congress.gov:
"Minnesota Governor Tim Walz echoed this sentiment in a press conference on Saturday alleging that the demonstrations that caused so much damage included provocateurs, likely from outside the area. State officials said around 80 percent of those arrested in the Twin Cities on Friday were from outside Minnesota. Former FBI agent and CNN commentator, Josh Campbell wrote , that Minnesota “authorities have been monitoring alleged criminals online, including postings by suspected white supremacists trying to incite violence.” Before the rioting started in Washington DC, Brooklyn, Denver, Atlanta, and other cities, allegations emerged that undercover police officers might be to blame for some of the worst commercial destruction in Minneapolis. Experts on political violence (and not just Qanon conspiracy theorists) shared stories on social media that the May 27 looting and arson at AutoZone by an unidentified man in a gas mask carrying an open umbrella (dubbed #umbrellaman) was not necessarily a protester but could be an agent provocateur or member of the police. In video posted to YouTube , while this man smashed windows with a hammer, protesters at the scene accused him of being an outsider and began to film him."
bocopro says:
June 25, 2024 at 2:10 am
"Thing is, of course, Joe illegitimately took the helm 3 years ago...Joe Biden stole a presidential election in the wee hours of election night..."
This pack of lies was taken off the Geeez blog where she and her benighted Trump cultist commenters cling to the delusion, against all attested to facts, that the 2020 election was stolen.
No mater the amount of evidence to the contrary, those poor Trumpers will never change their beliefs because they are victims of this:
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” --Carl Sagan
Creating Delusion and Obscuration of truth is the methodology of authoritarians. Trump has proven to be a master at it. And he has millions of obscured deluded followers. The folks who need "big daddy" to tell them what to beliee.
skud said "When -H- was SS she slept through the killing at the embassy"
You mean Benghazi? With the multiple investigations that Kevin McCarthy spilled the beans on to say they knew the attack and loss of lives wasn't her fault but continued to hurt Hillary's chances in the upcoming presidential election? That embassy? Talk about your election interference and yet the GOP was oddly ok with it. Apparently so is skud.
skud says "When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own."
What is skud talking about? I looked and then looked again. Black Lives Matter didn't occupy a military recruitment center. No record anywhere so why would skud say it let alone blame Biden for something that never happened? Oh wait, I know the blame Biden thing is their go to position on all things politic.
What I did find about BLM and that summer matches what Shaw and possumlady said. BLM leaders at the time pushed for their protests to be nonviolent and for the most part they were. It wasn't until A) White supremacist provocateurs or B) the cops started something that the protests turned violent. Most of the damage done to Federal buildings caused by fires was minimal. As for who was responsible for the violence see exhibit A and B. (I remember watching a candlelight protest where everyone was behaving themselves. Then the cops came in and tear gassed the crowd for... reasons? There were kids at the protest, families who were harmed by the actions of police. Yes, the police station was burned that night but honestly, if they hadn't started nothing there wouldn't have been something.
It was very brave of skud to get in a cheap shot regarding the topic of Hunter Bidens laptop, but oh sweet boo, you don't have the bandwidth to comprehend the ins and outs of the laptop case. I mean, you seem to equate your personal belief in a mythical character who flies around in a sleigh pulled by reindeer with testimony given in front of a court. totally the same, amirite?
For the rest of you curious about the laptop case I recommend Marcy Wheeler at emptywheel for THE absolute breakdown of it all. Based on her journalism what the GOP did to that poor drug addicted soul who admitted to making mistakes and is doing his best to make amends.... To say they perpetrated a hit job is too kind but cruelty is the point with the GOP after all.
Last word? I bet skud still mourns the loss of all those souls lost at the Bowling Green Massacre, may their sacrifice be never forgotten.
Narrators whisper - The Bowling Green Massacre never happened, Kellyanne Conway made it up but that didn't stop MAGA from repeating the lie until due to being mocked so heavily the topic was finally dropped. I have the memes, it was brutal war by sarcasm.
Grey One talks sass, "skud says 'When BLM takes over a military recruiting center wasn't joey's fault because they did it on their own.'"
I searched Google for information on this and could not find anything, so I asked skud for a link, and he ignored my request.
I will admit I did make an error which I do some of the time. Reminds me when the swell guy mocked romney, with the help of the moderator, for saying russia was out biggest threat. Even someone who has a staff to look things up can make an error.
Of course 20 years later shite spent years investigating russia and trump to no avail. Even though it has been shown russia interfered with the election, HOW.
Skud, I've posted this information countless times. You can find the details in the 448-page Mueller Report and in other sites on the internet.
Russia interfered in the 2016 election. That is a fact.
You keep claim there was no interference and that is not correct. I don't know why there are Americans who stubbornly refuse to read the report and, instead, repeat false claims.
The 448-page Mueller report contains copious detail about how Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, both by using social media to influence American voters with misinformation and by hacking into the Clinton campaign’s computers. Russian operatives also connected with WikiLeaks to release the stolen material.
Through two years of this investigation, through the indictment of 34 individuals, and then spelled out clearly in his final report, Robert Mueller made one thing crystal clear: Russia attempted to interfere with our 2016 election.
Mueller lays this out, like the entire report, essentially as a large outline, saying Russia attacked in two ways.
He writes, first, that it carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump. And, second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer intrusion operations against entities, employees and volunteers working on the Clinton campaign. Translation: Russia used the Internet to fool American voters and hackers to attack Democratic computer networks.
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