Honestly, hoarding all that wealth would be considered a mental illness if wealth = newspapers or twisty ties. When I focus on the Robber Baron class I often wonder why they won't share. John F Kennedy said "For of those to whom much is given, much is required. (Luke 12:48)"
Our Robber Baron class has forgotten the 'required' part. It's past time the world reminds them that their existence is dependent upon us, the workers. Nothing exists in a vacuum here on our BlueGreen dot. The Robber Barons got rich because of We The People and millions of others around the globe. Any claims of they and they alone creating their wealth ignores the blood sweat and tears of workers poured into the goods we all use today.
At least, that's how I see it. They can share willingly or not. History is pretty clear on the matter.
Mike, And that is something that neither party of political elites would support because most of them are in the multi millionaire class. We could tax billionaires, all 760 of them, 50% of what the earn and not make a dent in government waste. A significant portion of their wealth is in stock investments and real estate not in income so how do you tax that. How about a fair tax system where everyone pays their Fair Share. Will raising taxes for the rich make the poor less poor or will it give our esteem politicians more money to waste because they have no interest in paying off the debt?
" In progressive societies the concentration[of wealth may reach a point where the strength of number in the many poor rivals the strength of ability in the few rich; then the unstable equilibrium generates a critical situation, which history has diversely met by legislation redistributing wealth or by revolution distributing poverty. Will Durant
Skud... you keep talking about all this government waste. I grant you, there is some, but it's a pittance of the budget total. I think you often equate waste with programs you don't like.
Here's an interesting fact for you.
We have roughly the same number of non military government workers now that we had in 1960. And that number is managing an economy almost 900% bigger.
To me that sounds pretty dang efficient.
Specifically, with dollar amounts and links, can you cite any waste amounts we could recoup?
Upwards of $247 billion in taxpayer money was wasted last year, according to estimates by the Government Accountability Office. Mar 26, 2024 — The federal government reported an estimated $236 billion in “improper payments” during the most recently completed fiscal year (FY 2023). Reducing improper payments by $50 billion: Each year, the Federal Government wastes billions of American taxpayers' dollars on improper payments to individuals This year, the Department of State is featured eleven times, with expenditures including $4.8 million on Ukrainian influencers, $32,596 on breakdancing, $2.1 million for Paraguayan Border Security, $3 Million for 'Girl-Centered Climate Action' in Brazil, and much more! You can find Dr. Paul's 2024 Festivus Report here.Dec 23, 2024.
As a former manager Dave (retired now) the performance you cited relative to our government efficiency I'd have to say is pretty impressive.
Seems skud is talking about the inefficient 60's. Although we did not have the technology of today so naturally it took more people then to do less overall work.
Some folk simply love to complain. It's how they feel useful.
Top vs Bottom? Or "luxury" values vs "common" values. Seems they're related. As Plato said in his "Republic"...
from the Jowett summary:
Yes, I said, now I understand: the question which you would have me consider is, not only how a State, but how a luxurious State is created; and possibly there is no harm in this, for in such a State we shall be more likely to see how justice and injustice originate. In my opinion the true and healthy constitution of the State is the one which I have described. But if you wish also to see a State at fever-heat, I have no objection. For I suspect that many will not be satisfied with the simpler way of life. They will be for adding sofas, and tables, and other furniture; also dainties, and perfumes, and incense, and courtesans, and cakes, all these not of one sort only, but in every variety; we must go beyond the necessaries of which I was at first speaking, such as houses, and clothes, and shoes: the arts of the painter and the embroiderer will have to be set in motion, and gold and ivory and all sorts of materials must be procured.
True, he said.
Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no longer sufficient. Now will the city have to fill and swell with a multitude of callings which are not required by any natural want; such as the whole tribe of hunters and actors, of whom one large class have to do with forms and colours; another will be the votaries of music—poets and their attendant train of rhapsodists, players, dancers, contractors; also makers of divers kinds of articles, including women’s dresses. And we shall want more servants. Will not tutors be also in request, and nurses wet and dry, tirewomen and barbers, as well as confectioners and cooks; and swineherds, too, who were not needed and therefore had no place in the former edition of our State, but are needed now? They must not be forgotten: and there will be animals of many other kinds, if people eat them.
Certainly
He then goes on to describe his "Republic"...a luxurious state in a fever-heat of justice vs. injustice.
Hopefully humankind has evolved since Plato. Certainly relative to empathy, compassion, and wisdom. But Plato was not your average human form with average intelligence.
Given You Know Who, MAGA, Project 2025, and the growing Robber Barons class of oligarchs in America I'd say this nation will be moving in the reverse negative direction. All for the benefit of the oligarchs and corporations.
"Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no longer sufficient" Hitler must have read Plato to come up with his Lebensraum idea. May Joe Conservative enjoy his pioneering among the glaciers of Greenland!
Maybe the Greenlanders would prefer a different form of national/ cultural endosymbiosis than the one they have with Denmark. It's not like it would be our first ot that we don't have a lot of them already (Guam, Puerto Rico, etc.). We call them US Territories.
We could offer them a deal like the Iñupiat got. They'd be idiots to turn it down. I used to work for ASRC. All the members of the tribe were corporate shareholders.
As I said, I'll grant you some $$$ is wasted. But here's the reality... that 247 billion, which I accept as true because I trust the GAO, represents 3.2% of the federal budget. In the scheme of things, not much.
The rest is mostly political theater. C'mon Skud, it's from Rand Paul. WOuld you accept a similar list from me if I posted a political budget hit list from Adam Schiff? Of course not.
I'm glad you sourced your first point though to the GAO. I assume that since you referenced them, you see the GAO as a trusted source of fiscal honestly and accountability as it relates to the federal government.
That's good for future discussion should we get the option to do so.
Rev, 257 Billion here and 257 billion there and pretty soon you are talking about real money. Of course it is the taxpayers money not the politicians so there is no incentive for our elected elite to be sensible about it's use. You dismiss rand paul but to say the government agency is speaking the truth. I wouldn't accept anything from adam sh-t so you are correct in that statement.
You accept nothing automatically out of hand skud it it's a democratic or liberal posistion. You distrust everything when it's a democratic administration. But if it's lying You Know Who, MAGA, and the oligarchs of America's agenda you're full throttle on with it.
The resistance to changes you fear skud are actually the long term arc of things to come. Remember, the long arm of history bends left. Always has. Always will. So, keep fighting change for the betterment of all and you can keep suffering your delusions and hate for the greater good until dirt nap time.
Skud, your sophistry is noted. In your comment you extol the virtues and accuracy of Rand Paul and expect me to blindly accept his partisanship. Then you flatly reject anything a Dem Senator might say.
Do you ever agree with anything a Dem Senator or President says or does, or only the GOP ppl you like?
If you can't see the twisted logic you followed, you're beyond all hope some of us had for you.
19 comments:
Honestly, hoarding all that wealth would be considered a mental illness if wealth = newspapers or twisty ties. When I focus on the Robber Baron class I often wonder why they won't share. John F Kennedy said "For of those to whom much is given, much is required. (Luke 12:48)"
Our Robber Baron class has forgotten the 'required' part. It's past time the world reminds them that their existence is dependent upon us, the workers. Nothing exists in a vacuum here on our BlueGreen dot. The Robber Barons got rich because of We The People and millions of others around the globe. Any claims of they and they alone creating their wealth ignores the blood sweat and tears of workers poured into the goods we all use today.
At least, that's how I see it. They can share willingly or not. History is pretty clear on the matter.
We need to go back to the Eisenhower 90% income tax for billionaires.
The greatest stumbling blocks to humanity achieving its full potential are ignorance and greed.
Both are in plentiful supply in the oligarch class of America.
Mike, And that is something that neither party of political elites would support because most of them are in the multi millionaire class. We could tax billionaires, all 760 of them, 50% of what the earn and not make a dent in government waste. A significant portion of their wealth is in stock investments and real estate not in income so how do you tax that. How about a fair tax system where everyone pays their Fair Share. Will raising taxes for the rich make the poor less poor or will it give our esteem politicians more money to waste because they have no interest in paying off the debt?
" In progressive societies the concentration[of wealth may reach a point where the strength of number in the many poor rivals the strength of ability in the few rich; then the unstable equilibrium generates a critical situation, which history has diversely met by legislation redistributing wealth or by revolution distributing poverty.
Will Durant
After You Know Who and the oligarchs are finished we may very well find our selves squarely in the later solution.
Skud... you keep talking about all this government waste. I grant you, there is some, but it's a pittance of the budget total. I think you often equate waste with programs you don't like.
Here's an interesting fact for you.
We have roughly the same number of non military government workers now that we had in 1960. And that number is managing an economy almost 900% bigger.
To me that sounds pretty dang efficient.
Specifically, with dollar amounts and links, can you cite any waste amounts we could recoup?
Upwards of $247 billion in taxpayer money was wasted last year, according to estimates by the Government Accountability Office.
Mar 26, 2024 — The federal government reported an estimated $236 billion in “improper payments” during the most recently completed fiscal year (FY 2023).
Reducing improper payments by $50 billion: Each year, the Federal Government wastes billions of American taxpayers' dollars on improper payments to individuals
This year, the Department of State is featured eleven times, with expenditures including $4.8 million on Ukrainian influencers, $32,596 on breakdancing, $2.1 million for Paraguayan Border Security, $3 Million for 'Girl-Centered Climate Action' in Brazil, and much more! You can find Dr. Paul's 2024 Festivus Report here.Dec 23, 2024.
As a former manager Dave (retired now) the performance you cited relative to our government efficiency I'd have to say is pretty impressive.
Seems skud is talking about the inefficient 60's. Although we did not have the technology of today so naturally it took more people then to do less overall work.
Some folk simply love to complain. It's how they feel useful.
Top vs Bottom? Or "luxury" values vs "common" values. Seems they're related. As Plato said in his "Republic"...
from the Jowett summary:
Yes, I said, now I understand: the question which you would have me consider is, not only how a State, but how a luxurious State is created; and possibly there is no harm in this, for in such a State we shall be more likely to see how justice and injustice originate. In my opinion the true and healthy constitution of the State is the one which I have described. But if you wish also to see a State at fever-heat, I have no objection. For I suspect that many will not be satisfied with the simpler way of life. They will be for adding sofas, and tables, and other furniture; also dainties, and perfumes, and incense, and courtesans, and cakes, all these not of one sort only, but in every variety; we must go beyond the necessaries of which I was at first speaking, such as houses, and clothes, and shoes: the arts of the painter and the embroiderer will have to be set in motion, and gold and ivory and all sorts of materials must be procured.
True, he said.
Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no longer sufficient. Now will the city have to fill and swell with a multitude of callings which are not required by any natural want; such as the whole tribe of hunters and actors, of whom one large class have to do with forms and colours; another will be the votaries of music—poets and their attendant train of rhapsodists, players, dancers, contractors; also makers of divers kinds of articles, including women’s dresses. And we shall want more servants. Will not tutors be also in request, and nurses wet and dry, tirewomen and barbers, as well as confectioners and cooks; and swineherds, too, who were not needed and therefore had no place in the former edition of our State, but are needed now? They must not be forgotten: and there will be animals of many other kinds, if people eat them.
Certainly
He then goes on to describe his "Republic"...a luxurious state in a fever-heat of justice vs. injustice.
Hopefully humankind has evolved since Plato. Certainly relative to empathy, compassion, and wisdom. But Plato was not your average human form with average intelligence.
Given You Know Who, MAGA, Project 2025, and the growing Robber Barons class of oligarchs in America I'd say this nation will be moving in the reverse negative direction. All for the benefit of the oligarchs and corporations.
"Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no longer sufficient" Hitler must have read Plato to come up with his Lebensraum idea.
May Joe Conservative enjoy his pioneering among the glaciers of Greenland!
Well if we need lebensraum, Greenland's a pretty good place for finding it...
As of 2022, Greenland's population was 56,583. This makes it the least densely populated region in the world.
Maybe the Greenlanders would prefer a different form of national/ cultural endosymbiosis than the one they have with Denmark. It's not like it would be our first ot that we don't have a lot of them already (Guam, Puerto Rico, etc.). We call them US Territories.
We could offer them a deal like the Iñupiat got. They'd be idiots to turn it down. I used to work for ASRC. All the members of the tribe were corporate shareholders.
As I said, I'll grant you some $$$ is wasted. But here's the reality... that 247 billion, which I accept as true because I trust the GAO, represents 3.2% of the federal budget. In the scheme of things, not much.
The rest is mostly political theater. C'mon Skud, it's from Rand Paul. WOuld you accept a similar list from me if I posted a political budget hit list from Adam Schiff? Of course not.
I'm glad you sourced your first point though to the GAO. I assume that since you referenced them, you see the GAO as a trusted source of fiscal honestly and accountability as it relates to the federal government.
That's good for future discussion should we get the option to do so.
Rev,
257 Billion here and 257 billion there and pretty soon you are talking about real money. Of course it is the taxpayers money not the politicians so there is no incentive for our elected elite to be sensible about it's use.
You dismiss rand paul but to say the government agency is speaking the truth.
I wouldn't accept anything from adam sh-t so you are correct in that statement.
You accept nothing automatically out of hand skud it it's a democratic or liberal posistion. You distrust everything when it's a democratic administration. But if it's lying You Know Who, MAGA, and the oligarchs of America's agenda you're full throttle on with it.
The resistance to changes you fear skud are actually the long term arc of things to come. Remember, the long arm of history bends left. Always has. Always will. So, keep fighting change for the betterment of all and you can keep suffering your delusions and hate for the greater good until dirt nap time.
Skud, your sophistry is noted. In your comment you extol the virtues and accuracy of Rand Paul and expect me to blindly accept his partisanship. Then you flatly reject anything a Dem Senator might say.
Do you ever agree with anything a Dem Senator or President says or does, or only the GOP ppl you like?
If you can't see the twisted logic you followed, you're beyond all hope some of us had for you.
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