Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

~~~

~~~

Wednesday, August 16, 2017

UPDATE:

Trump, who claimed he didn't speak up about Charlottesville sooner because he "likes to get all the facts first," shot off his mouth again before getting all the facts:

President Trump’s false claim that counter-demonstrators lacked a permit




Wednesday, August 17:



Well said, Mr. Sebastian.

And he's not the only one who has spoken out against our Nazi sympthizing POTUS: General Robt. E. Lee's descendants have spoken out against Trump.  

See below after Mr. Sebastian's statement.



John Sebastian : "Our president is the worst of all of us. He's the guy who cheats on his wife, who steals from the little guy, who is racist, and classist and only cares about himself. He's the guy who plays golf instead of spending time with his son. The guy who fakes an injury so he doesn't have to serve in the military. He's the guy who lies about graduating at the top of his class. The guy who is insecure about the size of his hands. The man who says horrible things about women and walks into girl's dressing rooms at beauty pageants so he can see them nude. He's the guy who makes money off of charities and the guy who cheats at golf. Take your worst quality and he's got it. If you defend this guy, it defines who you are. Don't hide behind hating Hillary, or not wanting to pay taxes, or the government needing a change. Trump is a bad person. Defending him makes you a worse person. You are better than Trump. Act that way and call this guy out for being a sack of garbage."




Robert E. Lee’s Family Just Gave An Unexpected Response To Trump’s Charlottesville Controversy




The redoubtable Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo:



"I confess I had a small degree of surprise that the events of the weekend – as horrifying and tragic as they are – have had quite the effect on people they seem to have had. This is not to diminish them. It is only to say that I do not think they should be so surprising. I don’t think they should amount to a revelation that shifts our basic understanding of things. 

We have if not a growing white supremacist movement in the US at least an increasingly vocal and emboldened one. They both made Trump possible and have in turn been energized and emboldened by his success. He reacts this way because he is one of them. He is driven by the same view of the world, the same animus and grievances. What we’ve seen over the last five days is sickening and awful. The house is on fire. But it was on fire a week ago. It’s been on fire since November. The truth is indeed unimaginable and terrifying. But we need to accept the full truth of it if we are going to be able to save our country."

16 comments:

Beantown Fashionista said...

Srsly. Who defends this National Disgrace except the last of the far right wing bloggers and Breitbart assholes?

Who's taking bets on how low his approval numbers will be next week?

Trump: Our first Nazi Sympathizing president.

Are you tired of so much winning yet America?

Dave Miller said...

He defended people participating in a Nazi Rally as good people.

No DJT... they are not. Period. Full stop.

And this is our President.

Les Carpenter said...

Apparently deep red America hasn't even come close to having enough. They very well may never as they continue to be his apologists. One only need visit rightwing blogistan to know this is so.

Ducky's here said...

Actually, RN, there seem to be some stress cracks.

As he waxed eloquent over the fine member of the Klan, White Citizens Council and the Nazis at the rally the likes of Charles Krauthammer and Armstrong Williams absolutely savaged him.

skudrunner said...

If anyone thinks this was intended to be a peaceful protest is delusional, The supremacist and the counter protesters came armed with bats, clubs and helmets. You don't bring that to a "peaceful protest". Both sides were responsible for the violence but to say there is even one thread of decency in the white supremency movement is disgusting. They had a right to march, after all this is America where everyone has the right to their opinion, but to give them any moral credit is absurd.
I support trumps agenda just not trump. Promote jobs, bringing back growth that has been lacking for over ten years, giving people an opportunity to earn a living instead of giving them a check, but I also feel he does not have the temperament to be president.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud,
The counter protesters, the Antifa and others, came to do battle against the neo-Nazis who marched yelling slogans against Jews.

We know enough about Nazis and their tactics to understand that peaceful unarmed protests do not deter them. Now that the Nazi scum has been emboldened, we will witness many more marches across this country, including one scheduled for Boston this weekend.

Several of my relatives fought against Nazi scum in WW II, one of them is still with us, the rest, a Marine, a sailor, a soldier, have all passed away. I am thankful they are not here to see these sordid events happening across our country.

As for Trump's temperament, that was all evident to anyone paying attention while he sought the presidency. But I'm glad you've at least now come to realize this.

Dave Miller said...

Skud... do you agree wit Pres Trump that there were many fine, good people protesting with the white supremacy and Nazi groups?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Because many others seem to agree with DJT on that.

skudrunner said...

There were probably good people on both sides. I have never met the people at the conflict so I cannot say. Is every Muslim bad, is every white cop bad because some have shot a black man, is every German who lived through the war bad.

Were some people on the wrong side because they wanted to see the spectacle, probably.
The point is that the people involved in the violence came there to provoke violence and to make generalizations about who all of them were is shallow and you know better.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud: "There were probably good people on both sides."

No. Sorry. People who march with Nazis are not good by any definition. Period.

No, every Muslim isn't bad; every white cop isn't bad, every German isn't bad.

BUT EVERY NAZI OR NAZI SYMPATHIZER IS BAD.

And anyone who fights Nazis, is good.

Did anyone in you family fight the Nazis in WW II? By equivocating and making excuses, you defile the sacrifices of the men and women who gave their lives fighting Nazi scum.The Nazis committed genocide against the Jews and others they believed polluted their white race.

Dear Gawd! I never thought that in my lifetime I'd have to convince people --AMERICANS! -- that ALL NAZIS AND ALL NAZI SYMPATHIZERS are bad. And that includes our moral coward of a president, Donald J. Trump, who said there were some "very fine people" marching on both sides -- one was the Nazi side. Fine people do not march with Nazis.

Your inability to understand that simple truth is shocking.

Dave Miller said...

Well Skud, I disagree... as Shaw said, there are no good Nazis. You think Patton, Bradley or Ike would disagree with me?

Of course not. And until this week, no post WWII president would have either.

Sorry to say, you're wrong on this...

Shaw Kenawe said...


Dave, you shouldn't have to say you're sorry for being correct.

Eisenhower was there when they liberated the death camps:



This is what Eisenhower said on pages 408-9 of “Crusade in Europe”

“The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.

“I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.’ Some members of the visiting party were unable to through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.”

And on page 439

“Of all these [Displaced Persons] the Jews were in the most deplorable condition. For years they had been beaten, starved, and tortured.”

And in “Ike the Soldier: As they knew him” (G.P. Putnam and Sons, New York, 1987) Merle Miller quotes Eisenhower speaking on April 25th 1945 to the members of Congress and Journalists who had been shown Buchenwald the day before:

“You saw only one camp yesterday. There are many others. Your responsibilities, I believe, extend into a great field, and informing the people at home of things like these atrocities is one of them… Nothing is covered up. We have nothing to conceal. The barbarous treatment these people received in the German concentration camps is almost unbelievable. I want you to see for yourself and be spokesmen for the United States.” [pages 774-5]


I don't believe skudrunner is a bad person. We've butted heads many times. I think he just doesn't know enough about history, and that's why he thinks that people who march with or as Nazis may not be so bad. THEY ARE BAD. SO VERY, VERY BAD.

skudrunner said...

So you take a very complex issue and break it down to generalizations. Was everyone at this protest a Nazi or even a Nazi sympathizer. I doubt it but in your explanation they were. Was everyone on both sides trying to cause a riot, probably not but you go to generalizations. Everyone on both sides had different objectives some just to be there.

I attended a protest against Humphrey in Chicago. Was everyone there trying to start a rally, I wasn't but according to your explanation everyone was.

Unfortunately hate, bigotry and prejudice is part of our society. Everyone has the right to protest and everyone has the right to counter protest for what ever reason they choose. Was is the right of the fringe right and the fringe left to come to this armed to create violence, no but they both came armed to do just that.

We cannot discuss race in this country because if you feel discriminated against and you are white, you are a racist. What about the college applicant who is white is denied admission because they only have slots for minorities. Are they racist because they feel maligned but that doesn't make the a racist. I feel that some in this incident feel that way but now everyone on one side is standing up for hate. Is it wrong for Howard Dean to say he hates republicans and therefore should be banned for his opinion.

As long as we place labels on people who feel differently we will never get past the hate mentality.

Did I have someone who fought in WWll and died, the answer is yes more than one.

Les Carpenter said...

Forgive me Dave, but, why would anyone be SORRY to tell skudrunner he is absolutely and unequivocally wrong on this one? Mabey it's just me. I'm a real hard ass about some things. THIS
is one.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skkud: "Was everyone at this protest a Nazi or even a Nazi sympathizer."

No one has claimed that.


The ONLY thing I have claimed is that NAZIS ARE BAD PEOPLE, and people who march with them and who identify with them are BAD PEOPLE. That is all I've said. That's not a generalization, that is specific. And I own up to it.

skud: "Was is the right of the fringe right and the fringe left to come to this armed to create violence, no but they both came armed to do just that."

The fringe left came to this to attack Nazis. And that is always a good thing. Even if you don't see it that way. NAZIS BAD. ANTI-NAZIS GOOD. EVEN VIOLENT ANTI-NAZIS ARE GOOD. Do you know the history of 1930s Germany?

Sorry, skud, but the rest of your comment is redirection and trolling, so I won't answer it.

Dave Miller said...

Skud... really?

I did not characterize everyone at the rally. I spoke generally about the Nazi sympathizers... the ones who chanted "Blood and Soil" and stood menacingly outside a Jewish Temple with their weapons. No one in the that group was a fine person. Every one of them represented evil. Every single one of them. Period.

If people were part of the White Power Parade chanting Nazi slogans, they were/are evil. Period.

They weren't caught off guard. They weren't swept up. They willingly took place fully understanding what the implications of Nazi salutes are. If they didn't understand that, they're the dumbest people on the planet. Period.

You're part of the conservative right in this country that seems to be fundamentally unable, or more likely, unwilling to accept that there are those on the right who are, in this case, Nazi sympathizers and are unable to see why it was wrong for Pres Trump to not denounce them.

Maybe you should ask a few German people who lived through the Holocaust how they feel about Naziism, or Trumps statement? I'm guessing they won't share your views. Maybe the sheer evilness of what they endured is just to painful.

If there were some good and fine people on the Nazi side, where are their voices saying they were wrong? Can you cite even one person? Doubtful.

The majority of the statue protectors who marched through the city with torches, chants and fire in their eyes were just living, breathing examples of evil. And we, as a country, should be ashamed to call them citizens. they've sullied us all, as do their defenders, President Trump included.

skudrunner said...

I agree Dave that if they were chanting Nazi slogans they are evil. Since I was not there I don't know how many in that group were chanting Nazi slogans but perhaps you do so was it all of them. I have faith that people can do things for a valid personal reason even if I disagree with them.
Trump should not have said there were some good people on both sides because that was a generalization. He did condemn the Nazi's and others but he also acknowledged that both sides were responsible for the violence which is true. The media focused on the good on both sides so they could get their payback.

It is unfortunate that two presidencies have been ineffective leaders because of race. The hope and change unify America resulted in eight years of stagnation because racism was the main focus and the make America great again is being brought down because of race.

My father in law was Polish in a German concentration camp and he would differ with your assessment but I'm sure you know better.