Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston



Saturday, September 21, 2019

Here's what we know so far about Trump's Ukraine Scandal

From Nicholas Kristof:

There’s so much we don’t know about the whistle-blower complaint concerning President Trump. But here are four things we do know:

First, it seems that an experienced intelligence official was so deeply disturbed by Trump’s interactions with the president of Ukraine to feel the need to blow the whistle.
Second, the inspector general for the intelligence community, Michael Atkinson, who was appointed by Trump and has long experience on national security issues, found the whistle-blower’s concern to be legitimate and urgent.
Third, the whistle-blower complaint came after Trump and his associates hounded Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to undertake a corruption investigation involving Joe Biden and his son, Hunter. The Ukrainian summary of a July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky included this cryptic sentence: “Donald Trump is convinced that the new Ukrainian government will be able to quickly improve image of Ukraine, complete investigation of corruption cases, which inhibited the interaction between Ukraine and the USA.” The Wall Street Journal reports that in that phone call, Trump pressed Zelensky about eight times to work with Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani to investigate the Bidens.
Eight times! Nevertheless, he persisted!
Fourth, Trump withheld $250 million in military assistance urgently needed by Ukraine to fend off Russian aggression, although Ukraine didn’t learn of this until August. He released the money after the whistle-blower complaint and after members of Congress intervened.

A commenter called this latest Trump Scandal a "nothingburger." Here are some contradicting opinions on that foolish comment (via DailyKos):

Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti:
Democratic Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii dropped the “T” word.
Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut added critical new information. 


Anonymous said...

Fifth......another media nothingburger.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Really Anon?

Stick around for a big fat mouthful of a criminal nothingburger. I want to watch you eat it.

Michael K. said...

Shaw, the Trumpers never hold their Crime Boss responsible for his crimes.

skudrunner said...

I don't think there is any doubt that biden's son has had many illegal dealings that joey interceded on to get him off and this was just one of them.
The DNCMedia is all over it instead of investigating the incident they just attack. Why doesn't the left ask for the media to do their jobs so they don't look like total partisan fools, oh that's right this is against the yellow hair who beat the princess. The DNCMedia has such a great track record of proving their point that I'm sure this one will be a winner.

Shaw Kenawe said...

You have no "doubt?" Really. Can you show evidence for that?

We can alwys depend on TrumpCultists to come to the Liar and Cheat's defense.

BTW, skud. we're all very interested to see that you'd rather go after Joe Biden and his son rather than a sitting president who may have committed a crime. This is what cultists do: Point the finger at someone else so we don't look at the crimes their idol committed.

Of course you'd ignore this and whine about how Trump's been exposed again for his dirty, criminal behavior.

"Party Over Country!" -- The Republican Party's motto!

Anonymous said...

Yep Shaw this is it, they got him this time, he's finished...this is the crime of the century...way bigger then Watergate.

Rational Nation USA said...

You probably won't post this and that's okay. I'll understand why. But the truth/reality is, scudrunner is full of shit on this. Not that it is the only time.

The dude NEVER has ANYTHING to back up his statemenrs.

skudrunner said...

Hunter Biden’s employment means he will be working as a director and top lawyer for a Ukrainian energy company during the period when his father and others in the Obama administration attempt to influence the policies of Ukraine’s new government, especially on energy issues.
Joe Biden brags about how he threatened to pull $1 billion in loan guarantees from Ukraine if it didn’t immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

The prosecutor, who was fired, was leading a corruption investigation into a company that employed Biden's son, Hunter.

Guess joey admitted he interceded in his son's behalf but I guess in the eyes of some that was fine.

Shaw Kenawe said...

What you fail to understand, skud, and what you keep trying to obfuscate is the fact that the POTUS called a foreign country and 8 times pressured that country to involve and influence our American election process -- possibly involving extortion of that foreign country to get his way!

That you and other Trumpers don't see that as bordering on treason at the worst and certainly lawlessness at the least is telling.

This is NOT about Biden or his son. Trump had almost 3 years to investigate that (BTW, Ukraine officials say nothing illegal happened.)

This is about the POTUS committing high crimes and misdemeanors while trying to manipulate the outcome of his re-election.

Think about that criminality.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Please educate yourself, skud:

What did Mr. Trump do?

In a July 25 phone call, Mr. Trump is said to have pressed the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, to investigate Mr. Biden’s younger son, Hunter, who sat on the board of a Ukrainian energy company. Mr. Trump has seized on an unsubstantiated theory that Mr. Biden was trying to protect the company from prosecution when he called for the firing of Ukraine’s top prosecutor in 2016. Rudolph W. Giuliani, one of Mr. Trump’s personal lawyers, has pushed the Ukrainian government to investigate the matter.

Did Mr. Biden do something wrong?

There is no evidence that Mr. Biden intentionally tried to help his son when he pushed for the dismissal of the Ukrainian prosecutor, who was widely seen in the West as corrupt. Stamping out high-level corruption in Ukraine has long been a central goal of United States policy toward the country, and a standard condition for Western aid. On Saturday, Mr. Biden said he had never spoken with his son about any overseas work.

Mr. Biden played a lead role in the Obama administration’s diplomacy with Kiev, but Obama administration officials worried that his son’s work for the energy company, Burisma Holdings, could create at least the perception of a conflict of interest.

Jerry Critter said...

Biden’s son’s innocence or guilt is totally irrelevant to this whole thing. Biden’s son is a diversion from the real issue which is Donald’s actions and intent. If what is being reported is true, Donald is clearly guilty of “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors“ as stated in Article 2, Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States! Don’t you agree?

Dave Miller said...

Here's the questions conservatives need to answer...

1. Is it alright for an American president to ask presidents of other countries to influence American elections?

That's it. A straight forward question with a simple yes or no question.

Then we can ask the following...

If it is not alright, does that behavior rise to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor.

If it does, what should we do?

If it does not, what would rise to that level?

Simple. A few questions. Questions every member of the press should ask Pres Trump also.

Dave Miller said...

Jerry... welcome to the You Hit The Nail On The Head Club!

Joe Biden's son, who by the way has been found to be innocent of the charges, could Rynok Square in Ukraine and that would never change the fact that President Trump invited another country to get investigate the family of a political rival here in the United States.

Full Stop.

Skud... did President Trump do that?

Because that's the only question for partisan flaks.

Shaw, Jerry, RN and the rest of the crew here with a brain, what about Karen Tumulty's idea that the House should move immediately to censure Pres Trump? It's only been done once in our history, to Trump's Presidential idol, Andrew Jackson. Publicly brand him, for the rest of our history.


Dave Miller said...

Here's another take for the Trumpists...

His lawyers argued in a lawsuit filed on Thursday that the president could not be criminally investigated while in office, as they sought to block a subpoena from state prosecutors in Manhattan demanding eight years of his tax returns.

Taking a broad position that the lawyers acknowledged had not been tested, the president’s legal team argued in the complaint that the Constitution effectively makes sitting presidents immune from all criminal inquiries until they leave the White House.

Think about this argument... does that mean the House was outside Constitutional Authority when the sought to impeach President Nixon? How about when the impeached Presidents Clinton and Jackson?

How would a Trumpist respond to his latest gambit? Will they continue to support him?

Perhaps more important, as the devolve further into "Sovereign President" and the "Power of the Unitary Executive" theory, if they do support him, will they later accept the same behavior from a future elected President who leans towards views they abhor?

And if not, why not?

And yes, it's rhetorical, because we already know the answer.

Rational Nation USA said...

1) NO

1A) Yes - Any president asking and or pressuring a foreign government to influence our elections is deserving of impeachment. PERIOD.

It makes it even more egregious when a USA president does it to help his own political fortune.

Pretty straight forward if I do say so myself.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, Jerry, Mike, and Dave,

With Trump, every problem is always somebody else's fault, never his.

Europe made him withhold money that Congress authorized for aid to Ukraine? When did Europe make that suggestion? Only in Donnie's imagination.

Now we know that he ordered the withholding of the aid BEFORE his call with the president of Ukraine, that during the call he asked (demanded?) about 8 times that Ukraine open an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden (when the prior investigation showed nothing improper had ever happened), and then he tried to cover up his crimes by making sure the whistleblower's report to the intelligence community Inspector General be withheld from Congress (when the law REQUIRES that a "credible" and "urgent" report by given to Congress).

We have him planning an illegal deed, we have him committing the deed, and we have a cover-up of the deed.

Just like Watergate in 1972. (And a parallel to the conspiracy to have the Russians interfere in the 2016 election.)

We need to make the Republicans in the Senate vote up or down on that illegal conduct.

Then we can express our own position at the polls on November 3, 2020, no matter whether there is or is not a conviction on such a bill of impeachment.

What are the Trump bloggers saying?

Dave Miller said...

Trump bloggers?

They're busy slamming the kid environmentalist, arguing about gender neutral bathrooms and basically talking about anything but Trump.

But that is typical when he's in the middle of it, which is often.

Amazing how preoccupied they were during the Obama Admin with the presidency and the "lawlessness" of Hillary, but how silent they are regarding Trump.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave They're slamming Greta? An articulate, involved young girl whowho has influenced other young people around the world to be concerned about the environment? What do they see wrong with that?

And yes, the same people who accused President Obama of embarrassing America in front of the world (he never did), who said honoring family values and personal morality are what are needed in a leader -- those same people are behind the most immoral and corrupt man to sit in the Oval Office in decades!

Those people have no credibility left on their moral values and faith. They talk a lot, but their talk is as empty and devoid of sincerity as Trump's soul.

Rational Nation USA said...

Extreme Ideology should have been one of the seven deadly sins. Or, better yet the eighth deadly sin.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Fox News apologizes for guest's ‘disgraceful’ attack on Greta Thunberg

Apparently bitter old men are attacking this young girl for being an activist for the planet. Those bitter old men are pathetic.

Dave Miller said...

RN... re extreme ideology... it is. I would put it under pride, the sin of me.

Rational Nation USA said...

Fox get's it right every once in awhile.

Ray Cranston said...

The dead-enders at Lisa's Latrine are calling Greta Thurnberg "retarded." No wonder they get a thrill up their legs from Trump. They're as juvenile and pathetic as he is calling people, in this case, a young girl, names.

It'll be so great when Trump's ass is out of office and those Trumpers cannibalize themselves.