Welcome to Dave Miller, Progressive Eruption's guest poster.
I've invited Dave to post here from time to time and give us his point of view on various subjects that interest him and us:
A Question for Conservatives and Trump Supporters
Back in 2014, syndicated columnist Leonard Pitts wrote a provocative piece on race and Barack Obama.
To set the stage, Obama had been elected president in 2012, defeating Sen. John McCain. As the first African American man elected to our highest office, many believe then candidate Obama was subject to frequent racist attacks from conservatives, members of the GOP, and even the media.
Many influencers and thought leaders on the right held their ground, refusing to concede that any of the animus President Barack Obama was receiving was related to race at all. Almost all commentary on the right, from FOX News, independent blogs and other politically sided sites said it was all simply political speech. Good clean fun we were told. At worst, some of the offending material was classified as nothing more than poor attempts at humor. People were told to not take it seriously or personally. Because there was no way it was racist.
Enter Leonard Pitts with a question. A graduate of USC at age 19, a writer for over 40 years and a Pulitzer Prize winner, Pitts has been called by some one of the most insightful writers of our times.
His question for all the deniers of racism was simple. Taking at their word, Pitts posed a simple question… “You say race has played no role in the treatment of President Obama? Fine. What would it look like if it did?”
I mean, wrote Pitts, we’re talking about a president who was called “uppity” by one GOP lawmaker, “boy” by another and “subhuman” by a GOP activist; who was depicted as a bone-through-the-nose witch doctor by opponents of his health-care reform bill, as a pair of cartoon spook-eyes against a black backdrop by an aide to a GOP lawmaker, and as an ape by various opponents; who has been dogged by a “tea party” movement whose earliest and most enthusiastic supporters included the Council of Conservative Citizens, infamous for declaring the children of interracial unions “a slimy brown glop”; who was called a liar by an obscure GOP lawmaker during a speech before a joint session of Congress; who has had to contend with a years-long campaign of people pretending there is some mystery about where he was born.
We’re still waiting for conservatives or anyone on the right to answer that searing question Pitts posed -- essentially, “What would it have looked like if it was racist or racism?”
Which brings us to present day America.
We’ve seen people beating police officers with American flags; threatening to hang the vice president of the United States; and invading and defacing the US Capitol building. We’ve seen more love for the Confederate Flag, the flag of defeated traitors bent on the destruction of the Union, than at any time since the Civil War. We’ve seen people calling followers of Islam, "Moslem Vermin." We’ve seen conservatives call former President Obama a “Halfrican.” We’ve seen chants of “Let’s go Brandon” [Code for F#@K You Biden] in evangelical churches. We’ve watched as senators and congressmen and women have deemed our elections fraudulent, with little or no proven evidence. And we’ve watched as conservatives of all stripes have deemed anyone who dare call these behaviors extremist, UnAmerican enemies of the Constitution, bent on the destruction of our democracy.
In the spirit of the column by Pitts, I’d like to ask a question or two of my own to my friends and Trump followers on the right.
Given that so few of you define the examples of behavior above that I’ve cited as extremist, could you give me any examples of what extremism on the right would look like?
I’ll admit the left has their problems. Over the years people of the far left have embraced the Code Pink folks, called for violence in our cities, protested for defunding the police, and said President Bush wanted black people to die in Hurricane Katrina.
I’ve often cited all of those examples and more, as have almost all elected national leaders with the Democratic Party, as extremist. Additionally, President Biden, his administration, and the leaders of the Democratic Party are all on record opposing violence as a way to settle problems and differences.
Sadly, no conservative I am aware of has ever answered the question from Pitts.
And sadly, I doubt anyone will ever answer mine either, because to do so will indict the great majority of what has become conservative America today.
Indeed, to answer honestly, most conservatives would have to indict themselves.
And no followers of former President Trump and the current GOP seem capable of that level of self reflection or criticism.
--Dave Miller
20 comments:
Rev, Very broad brush article condemning all things conservative. As you are aware but do not acknowledge I am not a republican, democrat and certainly not a trumper. I think for myself and therefore am an independent and feel both parties elected elite are only out for personal gain and could give a rats ass about the people they are suppose to represent. What would it look like if race played no role in the treatment of obama, we will never know because it did both positive and negative.
You asked the question if there was racism regarding obama and is there racism in this country and the answer is certainly. There will always be racism in this country until the time comes we can discuss it which we are not able to do. I am sure there were people who didn't like obama because he was mixed race. I am also certain there were those who were against obama because he only cared about special interest and took aim at the middle class and especially small businesses.
There are extremists on all sides of the aisle. There are right wing extremists and there are left wing extremists but, fortunately, they make up the minority not the majority. The republicans say they are for personal choice and individual freedom yet they fight RvW taking away personal choice and freedom. The democrats say they are for the working class and the poor yet they back eliminating SALT and less protection in cities or reward the rich and slam the poor.
It is OK to have a former comedian hold up the head of a sitting president but it is horrible to use a saying about feelings for the current one. Hypocrisy is rampant on both sides and all we seem to accomplish is running in circles.
so well said, Dave. If I could stand, I'd give you a standing ovation. Sadly, no phony conservative will answer you as that would indict their entire ideology/cult.
Skud... you had a blather in there. If you had read the article, I asked no questions about racism. That question from Leonard Pitts was framed as such...
Since the great majority of conservatives, GOP members and Trump supporters "say race has played no role in the treatment of President Obama? Fine. What would it look like if it did?"
You like others, deflected that question.
As for my point, I agree with you that there are extremists on both sides of the political aisle. I'm just asking someone, anyone really who leans right, and I think you qualify, to tell me what behaviors right wing extremists exhibit.
And of course you punted on that one also.
Why?
skud, Dave absolutely DID NOT condemn "all things conservative." If you want to comment here, please do us the courtesy of carefully reading what is posted.
Dave wrote the facts about the terms that Conservatives used to racially mock and humiliate America's first bi-racial POTUS and to question where he was born, even when Hawaii's officials proved he was born in that state, therefore making those accusations -- the worst from Donald Trump -- false (and IMO racist.)
If you believe setting out the facts of what happened is "condemn[ing] all things conservative," then I suggest it is your conscience bleeding through your defense mechanisms that are stopping you from seeing what's in front of your nose.
Dave said nothing personal about you, but if you're feeling insulted, then try to take a look inward and understand why you felt the need to answer as though Dave were personally attacking you.
skud: "It is OK to have a former comedian hold up the head of a sitting president but it is horrible to use a saying about feelings for the current one."
skud, you NEVER do any research before you make such claims. Kathy Griffith was roundly criticized by Democrats for her tasteless and disgusting photo of her holding up a severed head of Trump. She was fired from CNN, and her career tanked.
But what you don't ever understand is that there's a HUGE difference between a somewhat marginal entertainer, Griffith, (I'd never heard of her before that stunt.) and members of CONGRESS saying, essentially "FUCK BIDEN!" or wearing it on their clothing. BIG DIFFERENCE!
What you did was post a "bothsiderism" answer to Dave's thoughtful essay. I don't think you actually thought about this very deeply. You didn't answer Dave's question.
Great piece Dave.
Much of the GOP and probably all of the Trumpublicans are seriously afflicted with the Three Poisons, greed, anger, and ignorance. Sadly it is unlikely any Trumpublicxan and few Republicans will honestly consider and respond to Pitt's questions.
Looking through the fog of ignorance, the anger that drives their hate, and the greed that drives the white priviledge they believe is their god given right requires insight and wisdon they simply do not have. Therefore, as Bannon so clearly stated, "better to tear everything down". Then they can rebuid it from the ground up to reflect THEIR rendition of reality.
Dave, do you see an end to the almost maniacal madness that this nation has been marinating in since 2008?
Rev, I guess “What would it have looked like if it was racist or racism?” is not about racism then what is it about. I have been accused not reading the article but maybe you didn't read your post. I did say racism did ply a role with obama on both sides. How can anyone guess what something looked like in a rear view mirror. Even slimy reid made comments about race and obama so the race card was played by all and he won so it must not have been a defining factor.
Ms.Shaw, I do not takes things personally because in our society if you took things personally you would not be able to function or you would only associate with people who believe just as you do. I have always looked at both sides but I am a fiscal conservative and can't support either party because they are not.
RN asked... "Dave, do you see an end to the almost maniacal madness that this nation has been marinating in since 2008?"
Essentially what you're asking is whether I see the fever breaking. I don't, but that does not mean we can't move forward. However, even as I say that, I'll admit I am generally an optimist.
Look, the reality has been that this state we are in has been building for decades.
The Reagan campaign shows us what I mean.
In the primaries, candidate GHW Bush called Reagan's economic plan VooDoo economics. The idea he said, that you can revenue [taxes] and more revenue will come in was always a joke, as admitted in later years by Reagan's budget director David Stockman. But, Bush was forced to disavow what he knew to be true to get the VP nod.
Then when faced with a soaring deficit, Bush sought to bring order into our economy and raised taxes, over the will of the GOP. Then Clinton followed suit, against 100% unified GOP resistance, and raised taxes even more.
And the economy soared and the deficit fell.
Couple all of that with the Gingrich desire to "win" every political argument, regardless of cost or legitimacy of the argument, and here we are.
Maybe we need a unity ticket. A sane conservative politician and a sane progressive politician. Look, I think the majority of Americans are fiscally conservative, and socially liberal, or at least "live and let live" libertarians.
That argues for a "Rockefeller Republican" ticket.
You all remember the Sister Souljah moment in the 1992 Clinton Campaign. For any progress to happen, we need a real GOP leader to step up and give us a DJTrump moment.
So to answer your question, yes, but only with a lot of reflection and hard work.
One of the more egregious problems in the west, because it is so highly focused on individuality and the self, is precisely taking everything too personally. So, nice try skud, but nop soap.
We get the leadership we elect. I don't know why Americans would elect such demagogues to high office, but they did. These leaders deserve all the condemnation they receive, but so do the 10's of millions of Americans who voted them in office. Hopefully the American people will not reelect Trump, but the problem goes much deeper than Trump. Experts are predicting the Republicans will regain majority after the mid-term elections, which would be a normal trend for mid-term elections (that the minority would gain seats at the mid-term elections). So the fight goes on. This is a fight for the character of the American people. It won't be easy because reason and logic are no longer ammunition to change people's thinking.
Skud... you perfectly reflect the problem we have.
Conservatives like yourself twist themselves into pretzels to supply answers to questions that were not asked. When asked my question about extremism, Silver at AOW simply said it's not him, so he has no opinion. Another friend of mine said he's never seen conservative extremism, so he can't proffer an answer. Another person said she leans right politically and there can be no extremism on the right [politically] be cause the right [politically] is right [correct]. You essentially said hindsight is not 20/20.
Reticence to seriously consider and answer these questions tells us much. Even if you agree, as you seem to, that Obama was treated badly because of racism, the question asked for specifics. Which you refuse to supply, because to do so would alienate your friends, probably family and your tribe.
In Congress this week, the majority of members of the party you mostly support, will not vote to censure a member of their own party, and essentially define extremism with the GOP, for advocating violence against a member of the other party.
Why is that?
When Kathy Griffith posted her disgusting stuff about President Trump, many liberals and progressives immediately condemned her. She lost her job at supposedly liberal MSM outlet CNN, saw concert gigs dry up, was castigated by both sides on Twitter and more.
Where have there been similar consequences for people like Rep Gosar?
Conservatives didn't answer the question posed by Pitts, will not condemn Gosar and will not answer my question either.
Why is that?
Blue... put your hands in a circle above your head. It's a great ovation. Thanks...
“What would it have looked like if it was racist or racism?”
I am a Conservative. I will answer the question.
It would look exactly as it does/did.
There were awful pictures floating around about Michele Obama as well. Made me sick. And I also banned people from my blog who referred to the POTUS as Barack the Magic Negro.
There is no room for disgusting behavior, regardless of the side and I have ALWAYS called it out. I don't understand disgusting people and understand career politicians even less. I'm done with the lot of them.
Hey Pam! What a surprise to see you here! Thanks for your input!
And CONGRATULATIONS! on being a published author!!
Hope all is well and you and your family are thriving.
Pam!
So good to see you. And thanks for weighing in.
And of course, congrats on the book.
Hi Pam, great response. Real conservatives, of wwhich you're certainly one, want nothing to do with the Trumpublican gop.
Congrats on publishing your book!
I just ordered pam's book from Amazon and am excited to read more of her excellent writing.
Shaw, I missed blogging so I decided I want to get back into it again.
Dave, I like your post. It's super important to defend our positions, regardless of what they are, based on TRUTH.
Rational Nation, I do believe that the GOP needs to separate from Trump. The party truly needs a revamp!
Blue Bull America, thank you for ordering my book!
And thank all of you for the "congratulations"!
Pamela... regarding separating from Trump...
How can, should, will that happen?
The fact that you are willing to say it is one thing. A good thing. But we're still left with the question. How do we get the folks at FOX News, OAN, News Max, bloggers and the people who stormed the Capitol to do so?
Pam, I hope you return to blogging. I enjoyed reading your blog. You are a true Conservative, and while we didn't always agree on some policies, you never called anyone with a difference of opinion vile names.
Yours is a sane voice. Something sorely needed.
Great piece, Dave.
The question is, "Could you give me any examples of what extremism on the right would look like?"
The fact they can't admit birther Trump and his 1/6 coup, the party's ongoing efforts to restrict voter rights, gerrymander millions out of fair representation, seize control of elections and to nullify results if they lose are all examples of extremism.
The obvious answer is the Republican Party IS what extremism looks like.
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