Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston



Tuesday, September 28, 2021

That call Gen. Milley had with his counterpart in China...


All the top advisors in the Trump administration knew about the call; Gen. Milley had coordinated the call with them:

Milley Says China Calls Were Coordinated With Trump Aides 

 General Mark Milley, head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said two calls he made to his Chinese counterparts in the final weeks of the Trump administration were a normal part of his job and were coordinated with the acting secretary of defense and other top officials. 

 “I know, I am certain, President Trump did not intend on attacking the Chinese, and it is my directed responsibility to convey presidential orders and intent,” Milley told the Senate Armed Service Committee on Tuesday, referring to a call he made on Oct. 30. Eight people sat in on the October call and 11 people sat in on the January call. 

The calls were coordinated by Trump Secretaries of Defense at the time, Esper and Miller.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Gen. Frank McKenzie, the U.S. Central Command chief, testified on Capitol Hill on Tuesday that he made the first call on Oct. 30 at the direction of then-Defense Secretary Mark Esper and that eight people were on the call with him. 

 Milley also informed the senators on the Armed Services Committee that the Chinese requested the second call, doing so on Dec. 31. That call took place on Jan. 8, and 11 people were in on that call. He also explained that he "personally" told then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, while later briefing then-acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller.

"...Meadows, whose knowledge of the call was previously unknown, said on social media: "General Milley needs to answer questions immediately — under oath — about whether he subverted a sitting President of the United States and colluded with an adversary. Not tomorrow. Not eventually. Immediately. If it’s true, firings and resignations should be just the start."


Do you see what happened there? Meadows knew exactly and under what circumstances the call was made. He knew the truth, and yet that didn't stop him from implying in his statement that Gen. Milley did something wrong. The revelations about the phone call sparked outrage among some Republicans, including Trump, who suggested that Gen. Milley had committed a crime by going behind the then-president’s back to communicate U.S. policy to foreign adversaries.

None of that was true, since Trump's closest advisors knew about it.

Like Trump, Meadows is a grandstanding liar, interested only in scoring points and dividing this country further than it already is.

More grandstanding Trumpublican idiots shooting off their mouths without knowing the details and truth.

Idiots! All of them.

Republicans call Gen. Mark Milley 'traitor,' and say he should be fired or court-martialed for a report that he secretly intervened to avoid war with China


Rational Nation USA said...

Hats of to Genral Milley!

Screw MTG!

As America continues its rapid headlong decline into absurdity and political mayhem.

Mike said...

The only thing republicans know how to do well is lie.

Jerry said...

The Chinese are being very aggressive militarily and they must love the fact that America is destructive from within. I don't see the general as a traitor, but calling the Chinese was a mistake in my opinion. It only proved the weakness of our president in their eyes, which is not a good thing. We should be worrying about China, not Putin.

Rational Nation USA said...

My respect for the General only grew by leaps and bounds. The extreme negative intentions of the severely deseased mind of traitor djt put EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN at grave risk. Milley did EXACTLY as he sshould have. PERIOD.

Rational Nation USA said...

Why deny the weakness and insanity of our very unstable past presnit?

Truth is the ONLY thing that sets people free. Contrary to the beliefs of cons like djt and the goo. Opps, I mean gop.

Ray Cranston said...

This is why we can't have nice things, because dumb people like this exist:

"NOW CNN’s knickers are in a twist because MILLEY SAID POMPEO, PENCE, AND SOMEONE ELSE KNEW VERY WELL MILLEY HAD CALLED CHINA AND THEY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID….SO THEY’RE SCUMMY LIARS FOR CONDEMNING MILLEY. Which could be true; why did these guys act shocked that Milley had done that when there’s apparently proof they knew about it when it happened??


This person never said a word about her hero Trump's 20,000+ documented lies!

Rational Nation USA said...

As long as self interest takes precedent over truth, as it does with ALL politicians and religionists, what we now have is exactly what we'll coontinue to witness. And the talking heads on teevee and the radio will continue to feed the people BULLSHIT because THAT is obviously want they want and apparently thrive on.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Jerry, Mike, and RN

The revelations about General Milley made me uncomfortable, but now that we know he had consulted with Trump's top cabinet people as well as Trump's chief of staff, I don't see him as doing anything wrong. But Jerry is correct in stating that this incident showed how weak the US president was. (Well, IMO, Trump was always a weak POTUS because he didn't know how to govern or know anything about government -- plus he lied constantly.)

Ray Oh dear, not the ALL CAPS CAPTAIN OF THE MOTHER SHIP OF FOOLS! I'm amused by the way she feels the need to denigrate President Biden after acknowledging that General Milley did no wrong, otherwise her crew of raging racists would make her walk the plank for her apostasy! And racist is the correct term to describe people who refer to former President Obama as "halfrican," Muslims as "vermin," and African-Americans as "monkeys." They are unhappy, bitter old bigots. The lot of them.

Franks Conservative World said...

General Milly does not have the authority to declare anything to be a risk. That is up to the President's cabinet. You think because it is Trump the laws can be ignored and broken and power can be abused. That in itself is treason, you vapid idiot.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Trump's cabinet was informed and in on what Gen. Milley did, and Trump's cabinet did not stop him. Also, I'll take General Milley's description of what is his constitutional duty over your inane and uninformed remark.

As you can see, the Constitution states that treason consists of ONLY in levying war against the United States or in adhering to their Enemies, or giving aid and comfort. General Milley did none of those things. Since we've never declared China as our "enemy," your comment is, like you, egregiously stupid.

"The United States and China have maintained an extremely strong economic partnership.It has been described by world leaders and academics as the world's most important bilateral relationship of the 21st century."

Who's the "vapid idiot" now, "Frankie?" LOL!

Dave Miller said...

Franks... as usual, you and your brother Beans have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe if you had listened to some of the testimony, instead of watching OAN and NewsMax updates, you would know, as even Geeez on the Mothership admits, that what Gen Milley did was, wait for it, approved of and done in full consultation of the highest levels of the Trump Administration, including COS Meadows and SOS Pompeo.

But let me ask you a question... We have seen many Trump campaign and Admin officials arrested, charged and found guilty of breaking various laws, including working for foreign governments, did any of this concern you?

Because if not, you reveal yourself to be exactly what you are... a non thinking, intellectually inconsistent troll who is good at spouting off stuff, but unable to think critically about anyone unless they are from across the aisle.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... would treason against the United States include, carrying the flag of a vanguished US enemy, overrunning US law enforcement and invading the US Capitol, disrupting the Constitutional duties of Congress, vandalizing US property and threatening members of the US Senate, Congress and the Vice President with death and hanging. After beating some of those officers with poles, fists, mace and anything else they could find?

Would that be treason?

Dave Miller said...

Some what related and part of the "even a broken clock can be right twice a day" file comes this comment from the resident military "expert" on the Mothership.

"The investigation, if we must have one, should be asking why the United States, with all its power and resources, did not hold accountable the Kingdom of Saud for their insidious role in the mass murder of 3,000 innocents on 9/11. We might ask (again) why the Bin Laden family was allowed to fly out of New York when not a single other aircraft was in the air for the next 36 hours. We might ask (again) why President Bush went on a hand-holding walk with the King of Saud in Waco two years later. We might ask (again) why a sitting president saw fit to bow before the King of Saud within a few months of taking office."

Leaving aside the "outrage" at a world leader showing respect to another, read the deep questions within that statement.

Many liberals like us here were saying those exact things 20 years ago as the Bush Admin sent us on a 20 year journey deep into hell. And there was not a conservative voice to be heard supporting us.

All through the Bush Admin, those same conservatives, the crew of the Mothership included, had nary a problem with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan except when they called for more troops!

Perhaps if the conservative voices now critical of those early years and the initial decisions to invade, had stepped up then, we'd be in a better place today.

But that would have required putting country above politics. Something that crowd has never seen fit to do.

Then or now.

Anonymous said...

Troll Frank C.W. doesn't know this either: GOP lawmakers slammed Biden’s decision to overrule his generals on keeping troops in Afghanistan but they willfully forget that Trump supported doing the same - and months earlier.

The problem with idiots like Frank C.W. is that they shoot off their mouths before loading them with facts.

Whistleblower said...

I'm convinced that Woodward and Costa made the setup a part of their book. Indeed, it could be the whole reason for writing the book!!

Nobody should be thinking that it wouldn't have been thoroughly discussed with Milley and his accomplices. How else could Woodward and Costa have got the story?

Rational Nation USA said...

The vapid idiocy is very well representented by Frannk and his Idiotic Conservative World.

The world of illusion and deception that you and your fellow mushroom heads live in Frank must be a very dark and troublesome dungeon. So, continue to enjoy the negative energy flow that obviously permeates your thoughts. You've certainly worked very hard at making it happen.

skudrunner said...

For joey to ignore the experts (generals) was the first truly independent decision he has made since his assent to the thrown. It also proves Gates was right about biden.

Trump didn't overrule his generals on keeping troops in Afghanistan because he was booted out before the withdrawal. The problem with Anon is he shoots off his mouth before loading it with facts.

As much as the hatred of trump dictates your thinking process you can't deny the current position of president is held by a person who has no leadership skills as shown in his 45+ years of government dependence. Now he wants the elected elite to vote on a massive spending spree without knowing what all is in it and exactly how much it will cost. As has been proven in the past, the corrupt elected elite will vote for something they have never seen and change the face of the country for our grandchildren. But that is OK because biden is a clueless nice guy.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud: "As much as the hatred of trump dictates your thinking process you can't deny the current position of president is held by a person who has no leadership skills...biden is a clueless nice guy."

Oh Crikey, skud, substitute "clueless nice guy" with "swell guy." Get some new material. You said the same things about President Obama.

BTW, Trump supported withdrawing all troops from Afghanistan, and since Trump is on record saying he knows more about military matters than the generals, I'm convinced he would have stuck to his withdrawal plans.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave "Leaving aside the 'outrage' at a world leader showing respect to another, read the deep questions within that statement."

But apparently those sailing on the Mother Ship have no problem with the videos and photos showing Trump, as U.S.president, saluting the Communist North Korean general.

Oh well, never expect consistency or logic with that crowd. They are "Party Over Country" to the core.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN Frank got a one-time chance to express his thoughts, misguided as they are.

Rational Nation USA said...

Thank you skud. For providing the funniest (as well as most hypocritical) comment of the thread. Specifically this As much as the hatred of trump dictates your thinking process you can't deny the current position of president is held by a person who has no leadership skills....

I agree however that the former guy is (and always has has been) severly lacking in leadership skills. As well as basic decency and intelligence.

Dave Miller said...

Skud... I'd have more to say but I'm pretty busy reading all the GOP and extremists who called for Trump's resignation when he over ruled his generals as it applied to Syria. Or inviting the Taliban to Camp David.

It's the president's job to be the CinC of the military. It's the general's job to offer him or her advice on a course of action. Then a decision is made.

Simple thing. We may not like it, but that's what it is. No matter the president.

As for how the spending bill gets approved, that's how the Law dictates it works when you pass a reconciliation bill. You set the top number and work out the details later. Just as Republicans have done for years and the Dems too.

For example, the GOP used the reconciliation process to pass the 2017 tax cuts, and even got some Dem votes. The advantage is that in using this system, you avoid the filibuster and can pass legislation with a simple majority.

For all you GOP leaning folks, maybe we'd see more regular order legislation if the GOP stated goals were not stop everything the Dems propose.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave wrote: "For all you GOP leaning folks, maybe we'd see more regular order legislation if the GOP stated goals were not stop everything the Dems propose."

Republicans raised the debt ceiling every time a republican president asked for it.

Now because it's a democratic president who's responsible for paying for Trump era incurred debts, Republicans say it is irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling.

Republicans don't govern, they obstruct.

skudrunner said...

The debt ceiling will be raised and this is all theater on both sides but it will be raised and we will not go into "default". They need to just eliminate the debt ceiling restriction because it doesn't mean anything.

I do like how now the democrats have a new motto in saying the 5 trillion spending spree is going to cost nothing. I guess there are people dumb enough to believe that or they are part of the 60.6% who do not pay FIT. Maybe if everyone paid some FIT they would pay better attention to what the crooks are saying.

Did you read where the swell guy gave advice to crisis joey that open borders are not sustainable. Guess he feels the current president is going to tarnish his reputation.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud: "Did you read where the swell guy gave advice to crisis joey that open borders are not sustainable. Guess he feels the current president is going to tarnish his reputation."

From the CATO Institute:

The Cato Institute is libertarian in its political philosophy, and advocates a limited role for government in domestic and foreign affairs as well as a strong protection of civil liberties.

"...51 House Republicans sent a letter to President Biden asserting that his new immigration policies amount to “open borders.” The charge is laughably absurd. Except for a couple of months last year, Biden is maintaining the most closed border policy in the history of the United States. Whether you’re a documented or undocumented immigrant, it’s nearly impossible to come to America.

The fact that Biden’s political opponents will still hang the “open borders” label on him shows that he is foolish not to act on his campaign promises to immediately restore America’s immigration system."

No, Biden Hasn’t Introduced ‘Open Borders,’ Despite Surge In Migrants

The myth of ‘open borders’

The ENTIRE quote from President Obama: "Obama added that "immigration is tough" and "always has been."

"Immigration is tough. It always has been because, on the one hand, I think we are naturally a people that wants to help others," Obama said. "And we see tragedy and hardship and families that are desperately trying to get here so that their kids are safe, and they're in some cases fleeing violence or catastrophe."

He added: "At the same time, we're a nation state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable."



Shaw Kenawe said...

And on skudrunner's comment on the debt ceiling, this is from a friend:

"Trump & GOP racked up nearly $8 trillion in debt during the 4 years Trump defiled & debased the presidency.

Most of the current national debt is the result of unpaid-for tax cuts for the rich promoted by Republican presidents & passed by Republicans."

Rational Nation USA said...

In a nut shell Shaw... The 8 trillion in dept left by tRump and the QGOP is directly due to greed and ignorance. Period...

Dave Miller said...

Believe it... I agree with Skud!

We should eliminate the debt ceiling. Since all it does is authorize borrowing to fund existing previously approved expenses, what is the function. All it does is add a layer of uncertainty into an already insane budgeting process.

And besides, there seems to be one party that frequently is using the debt ceiling extension to score political points, as opposed to doing what's right for the country.

I get that the GOP doesn't want to fund Dem initiatives. But the debt ceiling is not that. It is a make good on "the full faith and credit" of the US Government. Which if called into question, will destroy the world economy.

Make your arguments over legislation. Stall all you want on those. I may not like it, but fine, that's your right. But for the GOP, in this case, to refuse to fund the legal financial obligations of the US, which they themselves ran up in the last admin and which makes up the majority of this extension, is pure politics.

At the expense of everyday taxpayers, retirement funds, 401K's, small businesses and government contractors who fund thousands of jobs across America.

skudrunner said...

Rev, As you know by now the debt ceiling was again raised but it is a stupid exercise that should be discontinued.

They all run run up the debt because there is no politician who will do what it takes to do what is best for the country. What's right for the country I am sure we will disagree because it would force a lot of people who can work to work instead of relying on the "entitlement" system. Instead of making the "entitlement system" better for all we now have our elected elite billing all Americans for cradle to grave programs.

Dave Miller said...

Skud... here's what you and many others who are sure forcing to ppl to work miss...

All the data available, both public and private, shows we are short qualified workers where we need them.

So while there may be 200,000 out of work service industry workers, that does not address our ongoing shortage in healthcare workers. Or tech, or even construction.

There is always a "pool" of ppl out of work, but simply put, we lack the quantities of trained workers to supply our needs. And we cannot train ppl quick enough to handle the shortage.

So where should those "workers relying on entitlement programs" go to work?

The problem looks so easy to solve when just comparing jobs available to workers out of work. But if that out of work pool is not qualified, what should we do?

Respond with an answer, not snippy stuff.

Grey One talks sass said...

skud - whatever you are smoking etiquette dictates you share! The House passed the debt ceiling, the Senate is still playing games with our lives. Again.

Shaw - We the People just passed 700K deaths from COVID and yet there are still those who will not take this pandemic seriously.

I'm so angry because our neighbors/friends/relatives/significant others in the health care industry are portrayed as lying their asses off in the multitudes of posts on social media.


In case it's necessary, I'm being very sarcastic. I have to resort to sarcasm because the actions of so many Americans is taxing my soul. I once asked a question - how could good Germans get suckered into supporting mass genocide. Now I have my answer and I'm beyond sorry for asking the question.

I'm still upright and reading every day even if I don't say anything. Sending goodness to you and my fellow Eruptors.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Grey one, I’ve said the same thing about trying to understand how the good Germans could follow Hitler and his march to Hell. Now I know as well. Stay well, my friend. Glad to have you here whenever you can make time.

skudrunner said...

Rev, McDonalds is offering a $500 bonus to go to work. Amazon will train pickers and even drivers and the list goes on. Yes there is a shortage of some trained positions but the people out of work are idle because they choose to be not that they need special skills and can't find work. Talk to any business and ask how many people apply, accept the job and don't show.

Grey, you are correct I misspoke because I read where it was passed. It will be and Ii agree with janet, do away with the limit and let the unnecessary spending continue. What we really need is a balanced budget amendment and eliminate deficit spending. Never happen but nice idea along with a fair tax system for all.

Dave Miller said...

Once again Skud, you're not getting it.

$500.00 works out to less than $10.00 extra bucks, before taxes, a week over a year. It's a pittance for risking your life in Covid times. And as I've pointed out, that's a service industry job, as is Amazon.

If McD's wants workers, pay a real salary. Not sure you are aware of In-n-Out burgers out west. They start people at arounf $14.00-$15.00 bucks an hour. Plus benefits. They don't seem to have a problem getting and keeping ppl. Same with Chik fil A.

Amazon's wages start around $18.00 bucks but the job according to ppl is horrible.

Make the workplace a better place to work, pay real wages, add benefits and the workers will show up. But that won't change other sectors, where we are worker short.

What is your solution to that shortage of trained workers?

Rational Nation USA said...

Nothing but another recipe for continuation of growing income inequality. IOW, the 2 percenters ain't gonna give up their billions or trillions easily. And cons and trumpublicans are ONLY interested in keeping the staus quo.

skudrunner said...

Rev, The solution to training workers is for companies to provide training, apprenticeships and OJT. Oh wait that already is being done but it takes a willing person to take the job and there is a lack of people willing to work. McDonald's has always been a low skill entry level job. Amazon being horrible to work for is a matter of opinion as are most jobs. You can't pay more than a job is worth.

RN, Wealth has privileges and has since the beginning of time. Most people want to keep what they have and improve their lives and that of their family. Some accomplish this by working some expect the government to provide.

Dave Miller said...

Skud... here's a few things you and many like you are missing.

1. Companies, driven by the need for profits, do not invest in employees. Us lefties would love to force companies to do today what they willingly did years ago, but now all us 401K owners have a right, by fiduciary law, to prevent that from happening. Corporations are in a race not to the top, but to the bottom of the employee barrel.

2. The 55 year old who lost his or her job at an auto factory due to robotics and automation, is never going to earn what he lost when his job went away. So why should he go for retraining? His livelihood is gone. As is his ability to pay his mortgage. He was making $50.00 an hour counting benefits before. Now you want him to go to McD's for $15.00 and no benes? Never gonna happen.

3. America is short of working age potential employees. Period. We are not having kids at a rate to replace retiring workers. Conservatives have effectively shut down even legal immigration, so we cannot refill the pipeline. How do we staff those sectors where we see real growth without a sufficient worker pool born in the US.

It's easy to cry about folks not wanting to work at McD's, but that's not a solution. It's a way to avoid looking at the real issues because that would take us out of our boxes.

Think man...

Rational Nation USA said...

And, as long as people continue to put their own self interests above the the common interests of the community the growing income disparities and the suffering that often accompanies it will continue ad infinitum.

The selfish and ignorant beliefs that human activity is NOT responsible for global warming/climate change will accelerate the planet and all its inhbitnts suffering

So skud, are you willing to do your part in changing the present destructive trend?

Dave Miller said...

Skud, RN et al...

I continue to think about our "labor shortage."

Maybe, and this is a big maybe. I've seen no data to back it up, nut I'm just thinking.

During the pandemic, there was a ton of stimulus money that went out to families. We've also added into the system a larger child credit of about $250.00 a kid per month.

Maybe there were a significant amount of families, previously with two incomes, that paid off debt and with the enhanced benefits for kids, no longer need that second income. SO they've made the decision for one parent to stay home and raise the kids.

And in so doing, we're seeing a smaller work force, because families don't need that second income any longer.

If that is part of the equation we are seeing, isn't it possible that that is a good thing?

Again... I'm just spitballing here.

skudrunner said...

RN, Your response is to convoluted to discuss. Companies are in business to make a profit because if they don't they will no longer be a company. When you worked did the janitor make what a machinist made. With your example everyone should make the same so there is no incentive to seek more. Climate change is another buzz word that few understand how to fix and until we get the largest polluters to participate and plug in cars will not do the trick.

Since the latest buzz word is fair share so is it fair for those who apply themselves to pay for those who don't want to apply themselves. I have no problem helping those who cannot help themselves but those who choose not to apply themselves should not be everyone's responsibility.

Rev, What you posted at 1343 is not a way forward but something some need to take into consideration. If you can't make what you did than just give up. There are many people who have taken this route as they did in the 70's. I have been in that situation decades ago and it forced me into pursuing a different path which turned out well.

Rational Nation USA said...

Well Dave, you may have hit onto something. I honestly had not thought about that dynamic.

If you're right, and more parents can stay home to be with their children rather than wwith babysitters, that is a huge positive. I remember 62 years ago when my parents madde the decision mom wwould quit work to be home when I left for school and when I came home and to be there all day for my younger siblings. Our fmily wws stronger because of their decision. But that was when family values and cooommuunity actuallly meant something for republicans and conservatives. I doudt that is much of a concern these days for that group doing the whining and bitching.

Many might gree, greed and ignorance are primry drivers of the republican/con agenda these days.

Rational Nation USA said...

Your right. I worked in manufacturing management, responsible for productivity, quality, customer service, AND profit for almost 40 years. I guess I learned how to be convoluted while earning a more than comfortable living. You and I are cut from different cloth.


skudrunner said...

Not really RN. We are both Americans who worked to support our families. The big difference is you believe politicians, as long as they are democrats, are in it for you and I believe they are all crooks. Trump was horrible and lived on lies. Biden has no clue and so far hasn't told the truth about anything from his belief on climate change. The squad pulls his strings and will until 2023.