Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston



Thursday, June 1, 2023

Here's a question:


Will Trump's cultists remain loyal to a man who blatantly breaks the law and flouts it before the American people?

I think I know the answer.

Trump cultists will stay loyal to a man who violated the United States Espionage Act.

Trump Was Taped Discussing Sensitive Document He Had Kept After Leaving Office 

"Federal prosecutors obtained the recording as part of their investigation into the former president’s handling of classified documents. 

Federal prosecutors investigating former President Donald J. Trump’s handling of classified material have a recording of Mr. Trump from 2021 discussing a sensitive military document he had kept after leaving the White House, two people briefed on the matter said. In the recording, 

Mr. Trump suggested he knew the document was secret and had not declassified it, one person briefed on the matter said. The existence of the recording could undermine Mr. Trump’s repeated claim that he had already declassified material that remained in his possession after he left office."


Les Carpenter said...

Nope. Nothing the MAGA trumpists will even notice. Or care if they do. Their goal is to deconstuct American government and rebuild it in the image of a fascist state.

Shaw Kenawe said...


I took a quick look around the Trumper blogs and found no mention of this explosive report about Trump.

Imagine if Barack Obama had done this.

The current Republican Party is the party of supporting criminals. Think Trump, Paxton, Bannon, Michael Flynn, Santos,

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... no mention? Why would they? It's not on FOX so how would they know about it?

Dave Miller said...

As for Trump, his supporters will remain until they can't.

If he's indicted and if the reporting on this issue is accurate, they will find a way to excuse it as part of a years long witch hunt. Saying everyone has skeletons and under this level of scrutiny, no one could be seen as pure.

Then as reality sets in, they will support who ever wins the GOP nomination.

Even the hated Pence. Who they wanted to hang.

Dave Miller said...

In the old language of Monopoly, take a ride on the Reading railroad over to FOX News online...

You'll find no mention of this story. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. At. All.

Seriously, the site looks like a parody of a real news site, curated to please and piss off the MAGA extremists...

So why would we expect to hear anything from them?

Mike said...

I hope this is the smoking gun the prosecutors were looking for. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Dave Dubya said...

My morbid sense of curiosity nudged me visit to the Mothership.

“…an independent group has revealed more damning evidence which will end up vindicating Trump and his claims. by: Reed Cooper 05.26.2023 Source: DC Enquirer”

Is this from a source with Trump loyalist Dinesh D'Souza, convicted of breaking a campaign finance law, as a stakeholder? What credentials does this kid Reed Cooper have besides being a Trump fanatic, like NY Citizens Audit, Marly Hornik?
And you call them "independent"? I don't think you know what that word means.

And this:

”Is Lester Carpenter really as DUMB as he appears to be? Can ANYONE actually be that IGNORANT? I guess so, just being a regular on that IDIOTIC blog is a sign of Mental Illness.”

Anonymous, Part 2:
Someone suggested I check this blog for examples of white supremacy and belligerent white nationalism.
For some reason there are hateful folks here who are obsessed with a dude named Les. They say he suffers from mental illness.
I also see cheerleaders here who find delight/satisfaction in the murder of a mentally ill black man who didn't even assault anyone. By that standard they would also cheer the murder of poor Les, especially if he was black.
Like Hitler, they see democrats as "liberal gangsters".
There is ZERO Christian compassion for the poor, mentally ill, or blacks, and nothing but the "commie card" for anyone who disagrees with QAnon or Trump.
It's clear that this is an ideal forum for racists, seditionists, and neo-Nazis.
I am quite confident that my remarks here will result in brainless, evidence-free, hateful accusations that I am a communist.
That would, of course, confirm my case. Everybody Hitler hated, and who Trump hates, is a "commie", and if they are black, a "racist".
When "Christian hate" is stronger than Christian love, Christ has been removed from their alleged faith.
If you can't hate the sin and love the sinner, you never got it in the first place. There are far too many CINOs who offer only lip service.
I expect, and will now accept your hate.
Have at it, children of darkness.

I have a feeling poor Anonymous is about to be proven correct.

Les Carpenter said...

No one should hold their breath. It's entirely possible we'll be addressing him again as Our Twice Impeached, Thrice Married, Thrice Adulterous, One Time Insurrectionist, Ex and Present President of America/b>.

I now think anything can happen in these Divided States of America and that the lies we've been hearing since 2016 from republicans will amplify and metastasize further.

We're a strange country.

Les Carpenter said...

I actually take the intended slights by the delusional anon quite amusing. Every once in awhile a good chuckle is great food for the soul.

Those people really are amusingly sad.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Here's the link to the Mother Ship.

Shaw Kenawe said...


Take it as a badge of honor. If the WYD group insults you, that means you're intelligent, wise, and informed!

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave M.

In another time, the story about Trump admitting he took classified and top secret government documents and discussed them with people without security clearances -- that would be in 6 inch headlines in every newspaper in the country.

Trump has broken so many laws and been involved in so much corruption that it hardly is noticed anymore.

He had defiled the Constitution and the American people with his malevolence.

Dave Miller said...

Hey Shaw, off topic, but let's not overlook that Pres Biden will sign a 2 year deficit increase that staves off a financial disaster for the US.

A financial disaster that the anarchists in the GOP, including former President Trump, were hoping for.

This bill is crushed the crazies.

And the proof is in how Biden quietly just goes about his business and the silence about it on the usual MAGA blogs.

Biden ain't perfect, that's for sure. But he dose get things done.

skudrunner said...

Since the subject is corruption maybe we should demand equal punishment for all.

A retired Air Force lieutenant colonel was sentenced to three years in federal prison Thursday for storing files with classified information at his Florida home, the Department of Justice announced.

Shouldn't this apply to a former and current president because both of them are guilty of storing classified information in an office and a garage yet nothing happens. Guess the big guys are exempt from the law although a lieutenant colonel is not an enlisted man but not top dog either.

Les Carpenter said...

Interesting how skud lumps each experience into the same basket. Without highlighting the observable differences in circumstances and intent. No doubt to simplify things and allow for his singsong of bothsiderism. As if every circumstance and intent were exactly equal. They are not M

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud: "A retired Air Force lieutenant colonel was sentenced to three years in federal prison Thursday for storing files with classified information at his Florida home"

I'm surprised that you don't understand the difference between KNOWINGLY holding onto classified and top secret docs, like Trump and the retired Air Force lt.col. did, and UNKNOWINGLY having them in your home.

But there is a difference.

And maybe you should read what those differences are before you get all upset about two kinds of justice.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave M.

Yes. I don't remember ANY president being perfect. But what I do like about having Biden vs. Trump is that Biden doesn't embarrass me or the country every day with juvenile outbursts on Twitter. Also, he isn't into casually committing crimes, like Trump did and does.

Dave Miller said...


Skud, are you just trying to be contrary? Willingly difficult? Or do you not care about reality, truth and stuff like that?

Both VP Pence and former VP, now President, like former President Trump, were all found to have had classified papers in their possession "after their terms ended".

And at that time, they were all asked to return those documents to the US National Archives.

At that time, there was no crimes being contemplated against any of them.

But one of those people, after being asked to return the documents stalled, lied, and hid the documents he had. He also, through his legal representatives, committed perjury when he said all documents he had, had been returned.

Both Pence and Biden returned promptly returned the documents they had.

If Trump had just done that, he'd have been home free.

Can you even acknowledge this? Can you see a difference? Or are you so partisan and snarky that your brain is clouded?

skudrunner said...

Rev, It is OK to put classified documents in a garage or a private office for years but it is jail time for a military officer. How is that just or in the national interest? I know everything is about trump but in this case everyone involved should get the same treatment. Joey b was even competent when he placed them in a non-secure garage so his mental state is not a reason. Trump did it because he was king and viewed his actions as anointed from a higher being or his complete narcissism at it's peak. No excuse for any of them getting away with it.

Now is joey b going to debate or just campaign from his basement again.

Dave Dubya said...

Skud is only doing what the corporate news media tend to do at their worst. "Both siderism" is also known as the false equivalence fallacy.

Christiane Amanpour shared journalism grads these important points:

“Journalism is a public service, first and foremost. Journalism is about the truth, first and foremost.”

“Be truthful, but not neutral. Both-siderism, (on the one hand, on the other hand,) is not always objectivity. It does not get you to the truth. Drawing false moral or factual equivalence is neither objective nor truthful. Objectivity is our golden rule. And it is in weighing all the sides and all the evidence. Hearing everyone, quoting everything, but not rushing to equate them when there is no equating. And look at the damage that has done.”

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud left out the fact that former vice president, Mike Pence, had some classified/secret docs at his home as well.

He was cleared of any wrongdoing in having those documents in his home. Now, skud, tell us why that happened.

(PS. You can't. And that's because you and anyone else NOT involved or having any information on the circumstances of how the docs got there or to Pres. Biden's home or why they were forgotten -- all of that and more had to be taken into consideration in accordance with the law, and YOU and I and anyone not involved does not know how the Justice Department came to find no wrongdoing on Pence's part.

You're comment implies these instances of finding classified/top secret documents in the possession of past presidents, vice presidents, and military officers are ALL THE SAME.

They're not. And that's why they're treated differently.

Both Pence and Biden (Biden's aides, actually) found these documents and IMMEDIATELY informed the DoJ and IMMEDIATELY and without reservation handed them over.

I don't know the exact circumstances of the military officer you brought up, but I do know that Trump LIED about having the docs, and refused to comply with the DoJ's demand to return them -- obstruction. Those docs do NOT belong to Trump, they belong to the US government, of which Trump is no longer an officer.

Maybe now you can have some idea of why your complaint is annoyingly foolish in this matter.

Dave Miller said...


Again, are you clueless? Here's the AP recap of the incident about the Air Force officer who was arrested by federal authorities, during the TRUMP admin...

"In 2017, law enforcement officers discovered that Birchum knowingly removed more than 300 classified files or documents, including more than 30 items marked top secret, from authorized locations, prosecutors said. Birchum kept these classified materials in his home, his overseas officer’s quarters and a storage pod in his driveway."

The key word here is knowingly. He knew he took the material. He also had a thumb drive with info. So the Trump Justice Dept arrested him and charged him.

And once again, there is no evidence either VP Pence, or Former VP Biden were aware they classified docs at their homes.

However, the Lt Col you cite, and Former Pres Trump, were both aware they had classified docs. And in Trump's case, he admitted it in the Hannity interview.

Do you see any difference?

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave M., our friend skud did not fully read nor understand the article about the Lt Col. He just saw that the Lt Col paid a price for his crimes, and saw that the government is still pursuing Trump for his taking government property -- classified and top secret docs, and nothing was done about Biden (note that he had nothing to say about Pence.)

To skud, it appears that every time some conservative/Trumper faces consequences for lawless behavior, it seems to him that it is an injustice because he thinks a liberal/Democrat got away with the exact same thing.

Skud very rarely takes the time to see the differences. And that's what happened here. And I think he now knows he made a mistake in bringing this up at all.

skudrunner said...

Ms. Shaw, I do in fact see the difference. One side is republican so they are bad. The other is democrat so they are good. See how simple that is. Joey b had no idea he had confidential files in his garage for 10 years, at least that is what you believe. ALL of them should be judged by the same standards and that includes trump, pence and joey b.

Dave Dubya said...

Skud says he sees the difference and offers a sarcastic inane follow through.

I think he's smart enough to know the difference, and he's been told the difference.

He invokes "standards", then deliberately muddles the glaring violation by Trump in his refusal to comply and return the docs. He muddles the glaring criminality that ONLY Trump LIED about having them, then claimed they were HIS documents, showed them to resort guests, then concealed and moved them. ALL amounting to serious crimes up to espionage.

How about those standards, Skud? Or do you always need to default into false equivalence and "both siderism"?

Let's spell it out for you. Here are the crimes Trump committed that Pence and Biden did NOT commit:

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.

18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defence information
Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

18 U.S. Code § 1924 Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material... “shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.”

Dave Miller said...

And Skud, they are.

If you are found to have classified docs in your possession, the US Gov't mostly gives you a pass, unless it is found that you knowingly took them, and, this is big, do not return the docs when they are discovered.

That's true for a Lt Col, a Dem like Biden, A member of the GOP like Pence and a former president like Trump. It's a hallmark of our legal system.

And no matter what you say, you can't make it untrue in this case.

But keep trying...

Les Carpenter said...

He will.