Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston

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Tuesday, August 18, 2015

GOP Presidential Candidates Want to Fundamentally Transform America



Remember when the TGOP lost its mind over these words spoken by then candidate Barack Obama just days before the 2008 election?: Here’s Obama’s original statement, in an October 2008 campaign visit to Columbia, Mo: 

 "Now, Mizzou, I just have two words for you tonight: five days. Five days. After decades of broken politics in Washington, and eight years of failed policies from George W. Bush, and 21 months of a campaign that's taken us from the rocky coast of Maine to the sunshine of California, we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America."

The Goopers took those words (which were clearly referring to changing the leadership of America) out of context and ran with them as "proof" that President Obama would fundamentally transform America. Nothing in the above statement refers to changing the U.S. Constitution.  The Goopers went wild and assigned nefarious motives to that statement because they didn't bother to actually read the whole sentence, a habit that makes them hopelessly confused and easily duped in these sort of matters.

We're in another presidential election cycle and here come several T-Gooper candidates for the presidency who actually state their position to fundamentally transform America by repealing the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the U.S. to conform to their fears about brown people and citizenship:


A Good Chunk Of GOP Field Wants To Repeal The 14th Amendment 



"...for a political party desperately trying to improve its standing with Hispanic and other minority voters, it could portend a damaging bend toward nativism. That's because denying certain groups of people birthright citizenship rights is something the country hasn't done since the days of slavery. As former U.S. Solicitor General Walter Dellinger explained, birthright citizenship was common law in America from the founding of the country. But in 1857, the Supreme Court suspended that privilege in its infamous Dred Scott ruling, deciding that no person of African ancestry -- whether slave or free -- could ever become a citizen of the United States. 

The country eventually ratified the 14th Amendment in 1868. Paul in 2010 argued that the right of citizenship upon birth was not intended to be extended beyond children of slaves. But that has never been the widespread constitutional interpretation. Indeed, several other Republican candidates for president this year have continued to support maintaining the status quo, including former Hewlett Packard president Carly Fiorina and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush. Former Arkansas Gov Mike Huckabee said in the past that he opposes changing the law. An aide to Florida Sen. Marco Rubio pointed the Huffington Post to a 2010 article in which he too opposed changing the law. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, meanwhile, has largely avoided taking a position on the issue."





And here are some competing arguments about how this could be accomplished.


On another important policy issue, here's the Trumpster talking about what he'd do to get rid of undocumented  people. Hint:  It's as rash and irresponsible as most of the blather that emanates from his always jabbering mouth:


"Despite his nativist rhetoric, Mr. Trump may grasp the staggering economic and social havoc that mass deportation would wreak. Hence his offhand comment, on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” that he’d “bring them back rapidly, the good ones.” According to the Migration Policy Institute, about 87 percent of the United States’ undocumented immigrants — some 10 million people — have no serious criminal record. 

If those turn out to qualify as Mr. Trump’s “good ones,” what purpose would be served by deporting them only to “bring them back rapidly”? What Mr. Trump proposes is nothing less than manufacturing a humanitarian upheaval on a scale rivaling the refugee crisis in Syria. Notwithstanding his cavalier rhetoric, there’s no evidence Americans would tolerate such a mass uprooting of people who have planted deep roots in this nation." --The WaPo

31 comments:

I'm Skippy's Mom said...

"More than any other Republican candidate for president, Donald Trump has won his party's trust on top issues and now stands as the clear leader in the race for the Republican nomination. --CNN

A new CNN/ORC poll finds Trump with the support of 24% of Republican registered voters."

Which means a YOOOOOGE! percentage 76% of registered voters don't support Trump. You can't win the presidency with just 24% of registered Republican voters. The geniuses who brag about the 24% are too dim to understand that.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Someone needs to tell the Trumpster this:

In U.S., 65% Favor Path to Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

PRINCETON, N.J. -- Two in three U.S. adults favor a plan to allow immigrants who are living illegally in the U.S. to remain in the country and become citizens if they meet certain requirements over time. Far fewer support allowing those immigrants to remain in the U.S. to work for a limited period of time (14%), or to deport all of these immigrants back to their home countries (19%). U.S. adults' views have been largely stable over the past decade.

Louis O'Newman said...

TeaPublicans eating their own:

George Will also called Trump, "[A] one-trick pony [who says,] 'I'm rich, everybody who disagrees with me is stupid, and all our problems are simple. Put me in power.'"

On Wednesday, Will wrote in the Washington Post that Trump was an "incorrigibly vulgar" candidate with "innumerable delusions."

Will isn't the only Republican publicly going after Trump.

Top GOP media consultant Rick Wilson called Trump backers "low-information supporters" on CNN Friday.

He also said:

"This is a guy who is increasingly leading a fraction of the conservative base into a very dangerous cul-de-sac."

"He is promising things that he can never deliver."

"And it is time for Jeb Bush and other folks to start posting up and really comparing and contrasting Donald Trump's rhetoric with reality."

"[M]ost of the things that come out of Donald Trump's mouth have almost no relationship to the truth under any circumstances. He just makes it up."

Trump's talk of taking Iraq's oil sounded like a "drunk dad at the local corner bar talking smack."

"He's a guy who constantly punches down at people, and he's a very thin-skinned, delicate little princess when it comes to anyone saying something bad about him. This is a guy who loses his mind every time."

And, Monday on CNN, Wilson made Will's jabs appear tame in comparison, calling Trump "a giant, epic, douche canoe."

The seething vitriol for Trump also comes from the very top of the Republican food chain.


GOP establishment guru Karl Rove called Trump "a complete idiot"

Princess Trump!

Rational Nation USA said...

It was clear candidate Obama meant we were five days away from fundamentally transforming America policies through the change of leadership to leaders having fundamental differences on how to govern America.

Unfortunately the mood of a large segment of the electorate is to remove all illegals and
eliminate any continuation of the problem. Thus
the willingness to accept the rhetoric of Trump
and support his candidacy. Equally as
unfortunate is Trump's popularity appears to be
growing, not shrinking.

I was looking for a Trump campaign website yesterday that might highlight his evonomic, immigration, domestic, and foreign policy posistions. Trump has provided a wealth of rambling BTW and I'll be awesome rhetoric with no specificity as to how he would accomplish anything. Maybe there is a reason for that.

I'm still struggling with why children born in the USA to illegal immigrants from anywhere should have automatic US citizenship.

Dave Miller said...

Re the 14th Amendment... truly a bad stance for a candidate.

As for the other candidates, this caught my eye. It seems Ben Carson in fact is Pro-Life, but against the government getting involved in the question. He believes it is indeed a question between the patient and doctor, that abortion is legal, and that change comes through peoples hearts.

To that I would say amen! Almost word for word, my stance.

I was not aware a GOP candidate could enunciate such a nuanced stance.

Now we'll see how the party and primary voters who like him respond.

Should be interesting...

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/ben-carson-abortion-stance-121456.html?hp=t3_r

Rational Nation USA said...

Carson is highly intelligent. It has occurred to me he may very well become a stronger candidate as he gains experience and if he provides clear policy positions with great specificity as how he would accomplish implementation.

He is certainly brighter than Trump.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, you and I will have to agree to disagree on Dr. Carson. He was a brilliant surgeon, but that doesn't translate to politics.

His statements are an insight into his thinking:

Prisons make people gay.
The ACA is worse than slavery.
The Obama administration is just like Nazi Germany.
Advanced Placement History courses turn people into ISIS killers.
He called called President Obama a psychopath.
Planned Parenthood places most of their facilities in black neighborhoods.
Planned Parenthood is the leading cause of African-American deaths.

Those are just a few examples of inaccurate, intemperate, and just plain nutty things for someone with presidential aspirations to say. Those are extreme statements with no grounding in facts.

He's probably a decent guy, but way over his head where presidential politics is concerned.


And we must remember that the Trumpster said Barack Obama ruined any chances for another Black to be elected because he's been such a horrible failure. And that HAS to be true because look at all the White presidential candidates who were unable to be elected after a terrible White president's term in office!


SOURCE

skudrunner said...

Maybe the fact that Carson is not a politician is a good thing.
Many of his statements have some truth in them. PP was founded by a racist who wanted to control the black population. 78% of their clinics are in minority neighborhoods.

Obama did not lie about what he was going to do. Redistribute wealth the problem he didn't foresee was the unintended consequence of destroying the working middle class and boosting the wealth of the wealthiest.

We do need a path to citizenship but what should that path be. How about we adopt Mexico's immigration rules.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Donald Trump's Immigration Principles Would've Barred His Own Grandfather

The Republican frontrunner proposes an impossible threshold as he courts the restrictionist vote.

Kevin Robbins said...

It is scary when fundamentalists want to fundamentally change the country.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... I completely agree with you on the viability of a Carson Presidency...

He's been a great surgeon and an inspiration to many, but like many, that success so far does not look like it will translate into the presidency.

Your statements clearly show that.

On another note, since a majority of the American people now favor a path to citizenship, or at least legal status, when can we expect those on some right wing blogs that favor majority opinion to also move in this direction? They've said for years. wrongly I might add, that President Obama is not following the will of the people, well now they have an opportunity to do so in regards to immigration.

I won't be holding my breath...

Shaw Kenawe said...

skud: "Maybe the fact that Carson is not a politician is a good thing."

SK: I suppose you'd think it would be a "good thing" for a non-brain surgeon to operate on your brain? Or a non-airline pilot to fly the next flight you're on? I hear that sort of foolishness from people about "non-politicians" when a candidate keeps saying dumb things. To be an effective president, a man or a woman must know the art of politics, and have some working knowledge about domestic and foreign policies. Dr. Carson's bloopers and crazy statements is evidence for the fact that brilliance in surgery doesn't spill over into politics.



skud: "Many of his statements have some truth in them."

SK: So he's only half lying or half factual? There's something half-a**ed about accepting that in a presidential candidate.


skud: "PP was founded by a racist who wanted to control the black population. 78% of their clinics are in minority neighborhoods."

SK: I encourage you to do some research on Sanger before you repeat inaccurate information. Dr. Carson should know better than to reduce the work that Sanger did to nothing more that simplistic sound-bites.

skud: "Obama did not lie about what he was going to do. Redistribute wealth the problem he didn't foresee was the unintended consequence of destroying the working middle class and boosting the wealth of the wealthiest."

Mr. Obama did this through massive tax reductions for the one percenters, while starting two unpaid-for wars, initiating a massive Medicare Part D unpaid for plan, and plunging this country into a financial disaster? Then Mr. Obama got not a whit of cooperation for helping the poor and the middle class from the GOP controlled Congress. Yes. I can see how you would believe it's all his fault.

skud: "We do need a path to citizenship but what should that path be. How about we adopt Mexico's immigration rules."

Mr. Obama has proposed immigration legislation to which the GOP Congress either said NO! or ignored. So your idea is to adopt some other country's rules rather than use the brain power this country brags about (We're Number ONE! Best country in the world! Exceptionalism! That's US!)?

Also, about that border Trump is always talking about:

Fewer immigrants are entering the U.S. illegally, and that’s changed the border security debate

Who's The Deporter-In-Chief?

HINT: It wasn't GWB!

Shaw Kenawe said...

Kevin, in the TGOP's mind, fundamentally transforming the US is bad only when Democrats do it.

IOKIYAR!

Shaw Kenawe said...



Claim that Most Abortion Clinics Are Located in Black or Hispanic Neighborhoods Is False

Rational Nation USA said...

I did not say Carson would be a good president or suggest anyone should change their minds. I would not support or vote for Carson and have said so here, elsewhere, and at my sight.

He is intelligent and capable of growing as a politician/would be leader. Frankly he ought to have jumped in at the state level first IMO.

There is no circumstances that will propel Dr. Carson to the GOP nomination and the presidency. You need not worry about that Shaw. Trump the Rump as it looks now is another matter.

Ducky's here said...

If those turn out to qualify as Mr. Trump’s “good ones,” what purpose would be served by deporting them only to “bring them back rapidly”?
----------------------
Looks like an excellent debate question for La Trump.

In fact it makes as much sense as the bulk of the right wing platform.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... it's useless to provide links and/pr evidence... Smerconish hits the nail on the head in this article...

Here's an interesting quite from the article...

"They can just dismiss . . . any fact that doesn't comport with their bias, because they can find some source of information, somewhere, that will agree with them,"

Or, like many do, they can just say stuff, and tell you to look it up, because they know it's true. I looked and looked one time for a fact that was alleged by someone at the "Smut Hut". When I mentioned that it was nowhere to be found, I was told Google took it down supposedly because it angered the left wingers.

Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.

Read the article, you'll enjoy it...

Smerconish

Shaw Kenawe said...

Great article. Thanks, Dave.

"They can just dismiss . . . any fact that doesn't comport with their bias, because they can find some source of information, somewhere, that will agree with them."

And if you use Snopes, FactCheck.org or PolitiFact to determine whether or not something is true or false or pants on fire, the TPers tell us that those fact-checking organizations are all liberal and not reliable as sources.

We've been able to check Trump's assertion that Mexico is sending their worst to us and we've found that the people who are coming across our border are from Central America, not Mexico. As a result of fact-checking Trump on that claim and finding him wrong, he gained more points in the GOP polls! So I guess what we learn from all of this is that what Smerconish wrote in the above quote is correct.

The problem for the TGOP and their candidates is that they're speaking to a small percentage of their own party and even smaller of the American voting public. You can't win a national election by deceiving yourself and your party.

Here are some facts from the Pew Research Center on immigration, which will be dismissed or ignored by the TGOP because these facts don't agree with Breitbart and WND.

Anonymous said...

Hey libs birthright citizenship was put in for slaves,where areall yoyr so-called constitutional lawyers now who misinterpret it?
It wasn 't so every pregnant foreigner can come here,give birth and go back and forth freely whie sponging off the system.
It's not just brownn people,it's Chinese people xoing it too just to continue to diminish our sovereignty and keep outsmarting us

I'm A Real Live Manatee said...

The wing nuts have totally lost their minds over the Hillary email controversy. They're hoping this will put her in prison or some other of their fantasy.They're too far gone to understand that the Clintons know how to handle these sort of problems, but maybe somewhere in their limbic brains they do know this and it's eating at their very black souls.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Hello Anonymous @4:50. Here's the wording of the 14th Amendment.

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Nothing in that wording says anything about pregnant foreigners or Chinese or anyone else. But thanks for your xenophobic opinion. It clarifies the TGOP position.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Hello I'm a real live Manatee,

Yeah. The people losing their Sh*t over the emails will have a rude awakening when they realize Mrs. Clinton will not be harmed by this at all. Yawn.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... ironic that one many conservatives want people from other countries to do is be able to read and write legible English before gaining citizenship.

KP said...

<< the Clintons know how to handle these sort of problems >>

True, true. They have survived hot mess after hot mess; long enough to be in the cross hairs of another legit one.

I like to consider myself relatively open minded, but every time Hillary opens her mouth recently she is lying. I think it was yesterday she said it's not about e-mails or servers it's about politics.

Tell that to the various IGs or the F.B.I.

Secretary Clinton may survive another hot mess, this one of her own doing, or not.

We (left, right independent) cannot be willing to overlook such grave transgressions.

Can't you smell that smell of Nixonian type activities?(!)

She's got nothing on Biden. He will run if the F.B.I. dings her.

I urge him to run.

KP said...

Read Eugene Robinson:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/apologizing-for-the-e-mail-mess/2015/08/17/d8853068-4514-11e5-8e7d-9c033e6745d8_story.html

Dave Miller said...

I saw that column KP... There's no way I can vote for her. Do I trust her? Not a bit. I understand politics... But she is beyond the pale. I hope I get a decent candidate. Nevada is a swing state...

Shaw Kenawe said...

Dave and KP, I read the Robinson column as well. I have no idea if Clinton will get the nomination or not, nor do I know if Trump will. Once he entered the fray and grabbed the lead ahead of serious candidates, I realized I was living in a sort of political Twilight Zone. Plus it's August, and we are so far out from the primaries and conventions. Anything can happen.

I will reach back into history and give you Richard Nixon. Remember him? And remember the nickname he was given? "Tricky Dicky?" I also remember people asking "Would you buy a used car from this man?" I don't know if the polls measured negativity at that time, so I don't know how high his negativity numbers were, but I do remember his amazing come-back after his humiliating loss to JFK.

Say what you will about Nixon, but there's no question he was a smart man and was certainly qualified. Unfortunately, he also was paranoid about who his "enemies" were. And the men he surrounded himself with fed into that paranoia.

American politics is always surprising.



A Nice Underground Station said...

Crazy-ass Tea Party screamer:

"HILLARY CLINTON is a Dirty Stinken LIAR! SURPRISE, SURPRSE, SURPRISE!
How about it all you Progressive Dirt-Bags, Still thinking of voting for this Lousy Lying Bitch?

Does Donald Trump’s HAIR still look so funny to you?"


Heh. They're losing what's left of their grasp of sanity over this. And the poor saps don't understand that it'll get as far as the BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! side show did.

Donald and that FUNNY orange thing on his head will be long gone and the Clintons will still be around. Have they learned nothing from Clinton history? Ah, such children, such ignorance.

[As if we the people have anything to say about who our leaders will be.]

BB-Idaho said...

RN above- "He is certainly brighter than Trump." IMO, so is a large segment of
the population.

Ducky's here said...

Too bad there isn't a straightforward method to reform the Republican party.

La Trump does have a way of simplifying his policy positions:
"They have to go."

That counts as sound governance at wingnut central.
Of his challengers I think only Huckleberry has mastered the direct communication the base craves.

Rational Nation USA said...

There is no way to reform the republican party Ducky, it's too far gone. Lies are truth, down is up, fiscal responsibility means spending like a drunken sailor, personal responsibility means blaming everyone else for GOP missteps, individual liberty means conformance to conservative religious ideology, and the list goes on.

The choices are bad to terrible.