And the fact is that Democrats are better for the economy than Republicans.
Is That About to Change?
President-elect Donald J. Trump’s proposals on tariffs, immigration, taxes and deregulation may have far-reaching and contradictory effects, adding uncertainty to forecasts."
Trump added trillions to the deficit the last time he was POTUS. What will he do this time? If he follows previous GOP patterns, he'll ruin President Biden's "envy of the world" economy.
46 comments:
Let's not forget that the US mostly hewed to a balanced budget in our pre Reagan days. But once Reagan became president, suddenly "deficits did not matter".
And the spigot was on.
That balanced budget Clinton got, and the associated deficit reduction, was only made possible by GOP deficit hawks making sure the Dems did not add spending and the Dems adding, with Bush the Elder raising taxes.
Those tax increases cost Bush a second term as the GOP abandoned him, mostly on that issue. Then as Clinton raised them more in his first budget, the GOP flatly stated that the Clinton budget would wreck the economy and voted against it en masse, 100%.
It was the start of parties voting as a block against the other party's budgets, bills and initiatives.
We now know of course that the GOP was 100% wrong and as evidence, our economy soared.
BTW... the record shows that the Reagan OMB Director, David Stockman knew the whole idea of "Supply side economics" upon which this idea that tax cuts stimulate the economy and pay for themselves, was bulls*#t. In fact he said so at the time and again years later in a sort of political confession.
But reality was of no use to the GOP both then, and now. Their plan has always been to produce large deficits, then claim a financial emergency, that they caused, so they can cut spending to end that emergency. And in so doing, end the government programs they do not like, and end entitlement programs like Social Security, Welfare and Medicare they see as robbing people of their money and freedoms.
What a bunch.
Just remember folks... before Reagan, we lived in a mostly balanced budget world, got there again with Clinton and lost that mode completely with GW Bush.
Why?
Greed ultimately results in economic contraction. The reds only recipe for "success".
Expansion and growth are spurred by intelligent use of resources. The blues proven recipe for success.
The skuds, -FJs, Joe Conservatives, and et all of the country for whatever reasons fail to connect the very visible dots. And therefore faithfully vote against their own self interests.
The only true beneficiaries of republican administrations in the modern era are corporations, billionaires, and the non billionaire but Uber wealthy nontheless.
Small wonder the stock market does better under Dem administrations.
Shhh - it's an investor secret!
The CBO now expects the debt to be $7.2 trillion higher than it had projected when Trump left office—all because of Biden’s reckless spending policies.
The why is actually easy to answer Dave. The right figured if they blew the deficit up so much the Dems wouldn't be able to fund any of the programs that benefit the poor and middle class. `The flaw in their plan isn't so much public outcry. It's that every dollar the feds withhold from state and local governments it just mean property taxes go up. The wealthier property owners pay more. They piss in their punchbowl so to speak.
Ah yes... -FJ quoting, without attribution, the Heritage Foundation, which he has criticized when he did not like their views on election fraud.
I wish our trolls could make up their minds. Is deficit spending bad? Or is it good? Do tax cuts stimulate the economy and pay for themselves, or are they a budget buster?
Did the Trump tax cuts that are set to expire add anything to the deficit? Did Trump, as Nikki Haley said numerous times add $8 trillion to the debt?
Inquiring minds want to know.
JoMala... exactly.
Now the administration is doing everything possible to further wreck the economy. Market down today after powell said job market is falling apart. Biden selling millions of dollars of steel for the wall for pennies on the dollar, is hunter the broker for this sale.
If I remember correctly the end of the trump term was the start of the pandemic where millions lost their jobs and toward the beginning of the biden term they were rehired. Of course that was after the biden team shut down the economy causing a big spike in inflation and then they take credit for people be rehired but not for inflation.
your right, facts are stubborn things.
So Trump's solution is %trillions more debt by tax cuts for his oligarchs.
Genius, I tells ya. A genuine stable genius.
Better privatize social security and rob from the poor to coddle the American economic Aristocracy.
We know that after Trump screws it all up, he and -FJ will blame the "left". It's what fascists do.
And around the mulberry bush the cons go. Free of actual facts they simply further reify their fantastical narative.
The good news is it looks like Who Know Who may be held accountable for his crimes after he completes his 2'nd term. If he does.
The economy wreckers haven't taken office yet.
Market down today after powell said job market is falling apart
False. From Powell's press conference,
"In the labor market, conditions remain solid. Payroll job gains have slowed from earlier
in the year, averaging 173 thousand per month over the past three months. The unemployment
rate is higher than it was a year ago, but at 4.2 percent in November, it has remained low.
Nominal wage growth has eased over the past year, and the jobs-to-workers gap has narrowed.
Overall, a broad set of indicators suggests that conditions in the labor market are now less tight
than in 2019. The labor market is not a source of significant inflationary pressures."
Biden selling millions of dollars of steel for the wall for pennies on the dollar
False. In 2023, congress passed a bill introduced by Mike Rogers (R) to either use, sell or donate wall materials within 150 days. Congress didn't authorize spending for new construction so Biden used some for reinforcing existing wall, donated $6M worth to Texas for wall constructed by the state, and sold the rest to GOVPLANET, a privately owned auction house selling gov. surplus, in June 2024. The Dec. steel auction was conducted by GOVPLANET, a non-government business, not Biden.
If I remember correctly the end of the trump term was the start of the pandemic where millions lost their jobs and toward the beginning of the biden term they were rehired. Of course that was after the biden team shut down the economy causing a big spike in inflation and then they take credit for people be rehired but not for inflation.
Skud, this is incoherent. All those people rehired after Biden's team shut down the economy? Pretty neat trick.
The shutdowns occurred under Trump. Biden's team distributed vaccines and other mitigations that got businesses and schools opened. Inflation spiked all over the world due to supply chain disruptions and gov spending to avoid a total collapse. If I remember correctly, Trump signed off on $2.3T in relief spending. Can't put it all on Biden. Biden and the Fed brought inflation DOWN faster than any industrialized nation. How's about a little gratitude. Tis' the season.
Facts are stubborn and you haven't posted any. Do you like being lied to or are you intellectually lazy. Facts are stubborn and easily available to the curious.
"
Did average Americans get that $7 trillion or oligarchs? gtfu Dave.
SDec. 19, 2024, 5:03 a.m. ET
“The U.S. economy is pulling ahead of its global peers. Inflation is moderating, and the Federal Reserve is cutting interest rates.
Add in a decrease in unlawful southern border crossings and revved-up domestic production in several critical industries and they amount to a rough list of Donald J. Trump’s campaign promises.
It’s a list of economic wins that Mr. Trump is inheriting in large part because of policies that the Federal Reserve and Biden administration have pursued in recent years.
The economy is doing better than most economists predicted a few years ago. Forecasters widely warned that the Fed would seriously harm the economy as it tried to control runaway inflation by sharply raising interest rates in 2022 and 2023. Instead, price increases have come down substantially without a broader implosion. The unemployment rate is low. Consumers are spending.”
Guess you missed his statement on labor
Powell said that the Federal Reserve is keeping a close eye on the labor market.
“We do think the labor market is still cooling, by many measures,” he said, before caveating: “It’s not cooling in a quick [way], or in a way that really raises concerns.”
Skud... what are the items "...the [Biden] administration is doing everything possible to further wreck the economy."?
I'll be happy with just two specific items since you made it plural. And as a point of Constitutional fact and law, actions by J Powell do not count because the Federal Reserve, under which he serves, is controlled by the Legislative branch, not the administrative branch.
Tax cuts aren't spending deficits. Even a drunken sailor on a binge needs to earn the money before he can spend it.
scud being given a free education founded in factual reality that he no doubt will continue to sweep under the rug.
Skud, Do you know the difference between a " cooling job market" and one that is "falling apart" ?
One billion to africa and selling off he border wall materials for scrap. I didn't realize you thought the constitution was a good idea, don't you support illegals crossing the border. Do you think mayors of cities should be arrested for harboring illegals since that is a crime and many have said they are not going to cooperate with federal agents apprehending them.
Oh BTW, I do realize the federal reserve is an independent body that should be done away with.
Did you happen to read the WSJ article that dealt with bidens incompetence from the start of his administration. The same people who said biden was sharp as a tack are the same who say trump will ruin the country.
As Les says And around the mulberry bush the cons go and should be changed to both sides shouldn't it or are you in denial.
Don't be overly concerned about the democrat party going away. Biden/harris put them in a hole but they will come back. Nixon put the republicans in a hole and they came back. With the declining viewership of CNN and MSNCB it will not be as easy but they can come back given time.
Did you happen to read the WSJ article
Who are you addressing here? You're just ranting now.
Mara Lago as the pre-inaugural white house. Confusing - Musk is president,
Trump is VP and Vance is a valet in the parking lot. Gonna be an Abbot & Costello 4 years.
My good friend Skuds is correct about the Democratic Party coming back, Sadly though, since the time of Nixon it comes back cause the republicans screw things up so badly. The Dem come in and restore a semblence of good government, all the while the right's propaganda machine is stoking bigotry, fear, homophobia and whatever other nonsense that appeals to people that are drawn to these things. Facts may well be stubborn things but they're not near as stubborn as someone's fear and hate. Over the next two to four years it will be Trump's incompetence that will bring back the Democratic Party. Not anything Democrats or any of their sympathetic media outlets do. History repeats itself.
Skud seems very eager to punish financially constrained mayors, but not those who hire illegal workers to pick our crops. Why?
I don't think Skud the all-knowing is aware that illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor. Cities and local law enforcement don't have the resources for such dragnets and manhunts for non-felons. Maybe Skud should send them money?
They are NOT "harboring" illegal immigrants. Maybe Skud should demand the death penalty for mayors who can't allocate city funding for door to door searches for those who committed misdemeanors?
Chew on this, Skud:
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b)Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1)at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2)twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
1907. Title 8, U.S.C. 1324(a) Offenses
Harboring -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) makes it an offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation.
What drives my commenting skud is simply this, your comments are almost never backed up with links to supporting data, you make inaccurate statements about individuals that are based solely on your opinion and beliefs, it is you that rarely if ever criticize failures of "your candidate or conservatives", you never acknowledge the accepted truth relative to conservatives dismal historical performance relative to finance and the economy, and I could cite more, but enough for now.
No one here agrees with or likes everything about Biden/Harris. Mistakes have been made by this administration. The Afghanistan withdrawal, Biden's almost blind support of Netanyahu, waiting to long to initiate executive action in response to the border situation. There is certainly more but enough for now.
However, on balance, Biden/Harris administration has done a great deal and can and should be proud of their accomplishments relative to the economy (we are the powerhouse coming out of the global covid pandemic), and the work done on lowering medical costs for seniors with diabetes by getting lower insulin costs. There is certainly much more. But I realize your interest is in dismissing the positives of the Biden/Harris administration and accentuating any negatives.
Your track record on comments kinda sorta makes you look like the con political hack. You can do better skud.
I'm guessing a billion dollars invested in Africa and scraping the wall are Skud's examples of the Biden Admin "doing everything possible to wreck the economy".
First Skud, tell me how Biden send .00017% of the total US $6.5 trillion US economy to Africa wrecks the US economy. You may not like his decision, but to say that amount wrecks the US economy is ridiculous.
As for border wall material, maybe I'm not understanding everything. Trump said, as he has many times, at a CNN campaign Town Hall this...
"“I did finish the wall. I built a wall”.
So Skud, if Trump finished the wall, isn't selling off the scraps and putting the $$$ in the US bank, good financial management?
Or was Trump lying and he didn't build the wall?
You let us know on that.
Related to the money sent to Africa, I see that as a good investment. Africa is receiving $1 billion in new U.S. humanitarian aid to address famine, displacement and other crises in 31 African countries. That $1 billion will do plenty to garner support in the region of the US and our policies, one of which is limiting Chinese hegemony on the African continent.
We can disagree, and we obviously do, but I see anything that counters the rise and influence of China in that region as a good investment.
Staying on the theme of facts, I think we need to point out that crossing into the US is a misdemeanor. A crime? Certainly, but one not generally punishable by prison here in the US and depending on the state, not one that gets someone helping a person here illegally arrested for aiding and abetting.
Finally, you must have a reading comprehension problem. As I've stated many times here for you, and have done so elsewhere also that I do not support people coming here without papers, undocumented or as some call it, illegally.
Sadly for some reason you refuse to hear, read, understand or just cannot comprehend it when I say that.
Tell me how I can make it clearer or easier for you to understand.
“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson (Emerson in His Journals)
Skud,
Do you have an explanation as to why you IGNORE Dave's good faith request on how Biden is "doing everything possible to further wreck the economy"?
"I'll be happy with just two specific items since you made it plural."
If you can't, we only have more reason to call out your inability to engage in good faith discussion or disinterest in verification of your statements.
If you just ignore our requests, then your lack of honesty and character is all we see.
Or you can just admit you're full of shit. (We ALL know it.)
skud, your comment says you DON'T understand the Federal Reserve is an independent body otherwise why blame Pres Biden for actions taken by the Fed?
The USA has sent over 14 Billion dollars to Israel this last fiscal year and crickets from you. One billion sent to help with populations that face starvation and you are moaning and complaining. You'd better not be calling yourself a Christian with that attitude. Maybe a Nationalist Christian aka one of those Project 2025 theocrats, yeah, but a real life Christian who follows what their Lord and Savior Jesus, not so much.
For the record, Congress approved the sale of the steel so yeah, Biden went through with the sale. Considering the Republicans hold the House why again are you blaming Pres Biden for what the GOP said to do? Oh yeah, heads I win, tails you lose. Great double standard you got there skud.
Thanks Joe, Emerson perfectly describes the man/baby president elect, the Republican party and fundamentalist Christians.
Exactly Joe. Bonhoeffer, as he was awaiting death in a concentration camp in WWII Germany said even he was not being persecuted, that his treatment was not persecution.
Emerson, Bonhoeffer and Alfred Delp point out the emptiness of so many ppl in America today, especially church people. They get no respect from me as they play their various victim cards when they are corrected, challenged and yes, contradicted.
Persecuted? Pfff.
"Let me make it clear that as a white male Trump supporter in America I am the real victim of racism. I am brutally oppressed by DEI, wokism, democracy, Marxist educators, drag queens, illegal immigrants, and mean libs. They all make me angry and hurt my FEELINGS with their verifiable evidence and so-called facts! NOT FAIR! They must ALL be PUNISHED!"
The Trumpist Manifesto
Being the wealthiest most prosperous country on the planet Dave my problem is not with giving humanitarian aid to Africa or any other country we can help, rather it is how dismal the treatment of our own who are in need of help and support is.
Capitalism and its focus on the illusion of "individualism" and the greed that capitalism drives and spreads is at the very root of our societal ills.
The capitalists view of i got mine, screw you must change or this nation may very well crumble, the result of its own excesses.
"Nothing disturbs me more than the glorification of stupidity." Carl Sagan
Grey, There you go again with fake news. I said in English "Oh BTW, I do realize the federal reserve is an independent body" and I don't know how you misread that.
David, Lets not forget the 4.8 billion he is spending on tuition transfer but a billion here a billion there as long as it is passed to the taxpayer what difference does it make. You seem to dismiss the crime of entering the US illegally. We have ports of entry and if you do not enter one you are committing a crime. Maybe we should not punish the illegals who murder or rape because they didn't commit a crime entering.
No trump didn't finish the wall but to sell the material for scrap prices is a direct bill to the taxpayer. Of course nothing should surprise anyone what joe senile does.
This statement here: "Now the administration is doing everything possible to further wreck the economy. Market down today after powell said job market is falling apart. Biden selling millions of dollars of steel for the wall for pennies on the dollar, is hunter the broker for this sale."
You, skud, conflated the Federal Reserve with the Biden admin. When corrected the ONLY person you came after was me, even though you'd been corrected by several. Hmm, wonder why you didn't go after them skud? (It's because I'm a gadfly to your specific brand of misinformation and goal post moving. You do it, I call it out. You don't like it, I don't care. Facts don't care about your feelings)
You also continue to harp on the tuition forgiveness program, claiming all kinds of falsehoods you've yet to provide any receipts to back you up.
So the monies Biden provides just drop into an abyss, are just wasted? No skud. Tell me you know nothing about how an economy works.....
The money those citizens would have had to send to money lenders is now spent at businesses in the area, improving the economy. But you skud refuse to see the cycle, focusing instead on your grievance that someone is getting assistance you've bragged about before that you never needed. So why are you acting the the dog in the manger? Jealous that someone gets something you don't even though you say you don't need it?
Get out of your head skud. Your jealousy and mean nature is going to ruin your life if it hasn't already. It hurts you not at all for your neighbor to be lifted up. You don't know why they were cast down. You assume and judge. A LOT. But no, you do not know.
Grey, ireplied to you because of respect and you seem genuine like Shaw and David. I may change my opinion with your absurd "The money those citizens would have had to send to money lenders is now spent at businesses in the area, improving the economy". Why doesn't the government pay off everyone's mortgages, car payments and child support. Look how much people could spend to boost the economy.
I have worked hard for what I have so jealousy is not what I have I just don't like seeing my and your taxes spent to reward people for not honoring their commitment. It is not tuition forgiveness it is passing the debt to the responsible taxpayer. Why do you discriminate against the trades. Is it to blue collar for you because they are not mentioned and they can actually provide a needed service.
I agree that biden is not in charge of the federal reserve but for four years he hasn't been in charge of anything, according to the WSJ and 50 people who worked with him.
Who is running the country because biden/harris are AWOL. I guess barry is still in charge for another month.
A lot of assumptions skud. And I must admit, you do assumptions very well.
Ignorance, hate, and greed are the three poisons that keep humanity spinning is samsara. Jealousy is a symptom of one of the three poisons.
I find myself in agreement with Grey One talks sass. The loan forgiveness program takes the money out of the hands of the predatory lenders who line their corporate coffers with the money and instead puts the money back in hands of folks who will put it into the economy. Or personal savings which isn't a bad thing either.
A little out of the box thinking skud is what is needed. Thankfully, Biden/Harris did just that.
Then President Musk takes over?
BB, For a group who has no issues with the destructive influence of billionaire soros and sons you have issues with a future president who has yet to take office and publish lies about Musk who cannot be president.
Have you considered the lies, and incompetence you subscribed to with the current administration from pulling out of Afghanistan and killing American soldiers to the border is secure and lets not forget I won't pardon my son from his criminal activity.
Skud is going full MAGA again blaming Soros for imaginary "destructive influence" and Biden for COMPLETING TRUMP'S WITHDRAWAL from Afghanistan and "killing American soldiers".
Then he has the gall to question, "Have you considered the lies and incompetence".
This is called projection. SKUD is the only LIAR here.
There's no bottom for Skud and MAGA.
I can more accurately blame SKUD for shielding and covering up for TERRORISTS who killed the Americans at the airport in Afghanistan.
Skud is essentially a terrorist defender, deflecting their guilt to Biden.
Skud's radical Right authoritarian personality has no conscience. He demonizes, scapegoats and lies with impunity like his fascist leader Trump.
BTW, Biden pardoned his son because he knows damn well that Trump will continue to harass and weaponize the DOJ against his family.
For someone who is most likely just a product of someone's imagination, who's only purpose in life is to troll thoughtful people, it's sad that the Skudrunner character can't come up with anything original to support whatever ideas he/she has. I should be respectful that when he/she has something even more inane than usualto post he/she posts it under another moniker like JoeC.
skud, who negotiated the Afghanistan withdrawal (excluding the official Afghanistan government and instead went directly to the Taliban, a self described enemy of the USA?) Who refused to let the incoming administration complete their transition in a timely manner in order to avoid the very situation you've used as a gotcha for the past four years? (answer - #45 not that you'll ever admit to these facts)
And for my final point, who conflates education with housing? (answer - you do skud, all the time. Not your fault entirely as you only regurgitate the talking points spoon fed to you through traditional news outlets and NatC churches. Maybe for the new year you'll get tired of being spoon fed and learn a think or two. A Grey One can hope)
I still wish you a good holiday because that's just how I roll.
Musk and You Know Who are the twin Enemies Within and skud loves their game. A true MAGAat.
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