Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston





Wednesday, October 14, 2015

The grownups take the refreshing!

photo via Politicususa

The Democratic Party's debate/question/answer forum showed how men and women can talk about substantive issues without stomping their feet in anger. This was quite a change from the GOP debates/q&a sessions where Donald Trump kept reminding his fellow candidates and the American people how great he is but offered nothing more, and the rest of that crowd were seething with anger. 

To be fair, last night's debate was more substantive because each candidate had longer to present his/her answers. The Democratic candidates were not afraid to talk about serious issues facing this country; and with one exception, Lincoln Chaffee, IMO, they all did a very good job discussing them.

The moderators were fair; they didn't let any of the candidates get by with squishy answers.

(If you want to fact check the candidates, GO HERE.)

The clear winners, IMO, were Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, followed by Martin O'Malley and Jim Webb.

What do you think?

9 Issues Democrats Just Debated That Have Been Almost Completely Ignored By Republicans

 1. Race 

 2. Campaign finance reform and Citizens United 

 3. Domestic surveillance 

 4. Wall Street reform 

 5. "The 1 percent" 

 6. College affordability 

 7. "Diplomacy" 

 8. Paid family leave, health care and insurance 

 9. Benghazi and Clinton's emails 

FORBES Magazine backs up Hillary Clinton's claim that the economy does better with the Democrats in office.  Here are some highlights of the Forbes article:

Personal disposable income has grown nearly 6 times more under Democratic presidents 

Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has grown 7 times more under Democratic presidents 

Corporate profits have grown over 16% more per year under Democratic presidents (they actually declined under Republicans by an average of 4.53%/year) 

Average annual compound return on the stock market has been 18 times greater under Democratic presidents (If you invested $100k for 40 years of Republican administrations you had $126k at the end, if you invested $100k for 40 years of Democrat administrations you had $3.9M at the end) 

Republican presidents added 2.5 times more to the national debt than Democratic presidents 

The two times the economy steered into the ditch (Great Depression and Great Recession) were during Republican, laissez faire administrations

Facts are stubborn things.
Read the entire article for FACTS, not the TGOP's denial of them. 

It is an incontrovertible fact that under Democratic administrations the economy THRIVES; under Republican administrations, it DECLINES.


Rational Nation USA said...

Clinton did what she had to do, remain composed and come across as a warmer individual and candidate.

Actually, at least for me, there were few if any surprises. All candidates pretty much responded to questions as expected and the questions were issues democrats have been focused on fore some time.

Clinton, regardless of one's own view of her sincerity and honesty or lack thereof, came across as knowledgeable, in control of facts,
and capable.

I call it a tie for the number one spot between Clinton and Sanders, mostly because Bernie was refreshingly honest and Clinton still has a ways to go to convince me of hers.

I really don't see Chaffee and Webb lasting much longer although I am hoping Webb does.

The Surfer Dude said...

The RW news sites are talking about the Dems running an "openly socialist" candidate.

That's funny. Most of the people writing about it are on Social security or Medicare. They drive on state roads and bridges and send their kids to public schools in cities and towns protected by local police and fire departments. Do those people ever use their brains before they post stupid talking points that make no sense? No wonder Donald Trump is their leading candidate for presidency.

Go Bernie!

D.K.J. said...

That sound you just heard was the Repubs collectively pooping their pants after watching last night's Dem debate. Put Hillary up against tRUMP and watch her crush the pathetic know-nothing bully.

Anonymous said...

Shaw, you need to send the Tea Party Republicans a year supplyu of Depends after the read this:

"for the bigger picture, Republicans must have been discouraged by Clinton’s strong showing, but I hope they also noticed how much better last night’s debate was than anything the GOP candidates have shown in their events. On every front, the exchanges in Las Vegas showed Democratic candidates better prepared, more substantive, and more knowledgeable than their far-right counterparts.

During the debate, Politico’s Glenn Thrush noted on Twitter, “The level of discourse - nuance of discussion – compared to the GOP debates? Not even close.” The Washington Post’s Dave Weigel added soon after, “[W]atching this debate after slogging through all the Trump debates is like moving from kindergarten into grad school.”

Hillary Clinton won big last night. Republicans lost."

Anonymous said...

Sorry, that should be D.K.J. but I think Shaw will agree. LOL!

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, I know you're no Hillary fan, but one has to admit she has a command of the issues and can articulate her positions without having to remind people of how great she is, where she stands in the polls, and without attacking her opponents with personal insults. That's how Trump behaved in the last two GOP debates, and the comparison between Hillary and Trump is stark.

T.S.D., If you're looking for logic from those sites, forget it. PS Bernie did very well last night.

D.K.J., are you implying that the TGOP is SCARED of Hillary?! LOL! I do hope their nominee is the bloviating bully,Trump. Hillary will reduce him to tears!

Anon@9:19, The top TGOP candidates at the last TGOP debate: Dopey*, Sleepy*, and Grumpy*.

*Trump, *Carson, and *Fiorina.

The Wank Files said...

Read the incoherent, illiterate rants on the usual TGOP blogs and news sites to see how Hillary's amazing debate performance shook the Goopers to their very bones as they contemplate a Hillary Clinton presidency. Who else they got? A guy whose only accomplishments are 4 bankruptcies and putting his name in Yuuuge letters on buildings while telling everyone wholl listen that he's the greatest? Another guy who thinks anyone not like him is a Nazi and who has trouble staying awake while talking, and finally a woman who was proved to be an unapologetic liar on the Planned parenthood tapes and who almost ruined on of American's best high tech companies and laid of 30,000 workers while giving herself millions of dollars in a golden parachute. Really GOP? Really?

Jerry Critter said...

It is important to compare the difference between the GOP and Democratic debates because those differences are an indication of how they will govern and what is important to them.

Radical Pig's Liver said...

Have the Baggers stopped hitting themselves over their heads with hammers yet? That's what they decided to do because for them it felt better than thinking of President Hillary Clinton.

Shaw Kenawe said...

As usual, Charlie Pierce @Esquire gives us a great wrap-up of last night's debate:

The Democrats Proved They're the Party of Sanity. But That's Not Enough.

RPL, is that what that sound is all over the TPers' blogs?

TWF, what a contrast from the TGOP's debate, where they whined, complained, bitched, and talked about taking this country backwards to the 1950s.

Anon@9:19AM, I wouldn't count Sanders out quite yet, we need more debates before Hillary gets the nomination.

D.K.J., we're all hoping the TGOP will be foolish enough to choose the short-fingered vulgarian as their nominee. Please. Please. Please!

RN, good points. We have to wait and see. I don't think Joe Biden will jump in after Hillary's strong performance last night.

Ducky's here said...

"The Republicans have been such a carnival of the damned that all the Democratic candidates had to do was show up, as St. Paul would put it, clothed and in their right minds, and people would have no choice but to notice the difference."
--- Charlie Pierce

Hillary is a great debater. However, her protests that she's learned from her mistakes and changed position on every issue where Sanders has challenged her should remind us that she's going all in on TPP, she's going to be status quo on gun control and she's still a Wall Street tool.

I know Sanders is weak on gun control but someone should tell Hillary that just mentioning background checks really shouldn't do much to flank his left if people are paying attention. Let's have some meat.

She can extend the Democratic Leadership Council triangulation that did little but give the Teabags a chance to make policy or she can come out as truly left/center.
Don't count on the latter.

But Pierce is right. The Dems just have to appear sane. The bar just isn't too high.

Ray Cranston said...

Shaw, we just needed to come by here to let you know that we SCARED! SCARED! SCARED! of Ben "Snooze" Carson. Do you understand that?! We are SCARED!

Also, Donald "I'm Gonna Be Terrific" Trump! We're SCARED shi*less of him too!

Trumps' daughter talking about how her father has given her every opportunity to succeed? WTF? He's an effing billionaire! She had every advantage a member of the Royal Family would have. Who gives a crap about what she thinks about her Daddy. She's from an overprivileged family and her Daddy thinks he hit a home run when he was born on third base. Tell Ivanka to STFU. We don't need to hear about her billionaire childhood.

BTW, did you know we're SCARED! of Ben Carson. Just wanted to make sure you knew.

Rational Nation USA said...

So, no one is forcing anyone to read about or listen to what Ivanka thinks about her childhood, adolescence, adulthood, her father or anything else for that matter. But she does have the right to not STFU.

Anonymous said...

Same ol,same ol boring blah,blah
Take from the rich and give it to who we say to.
This will trickle down right into the biggest pool of people,the middle class.
This on top of the 40% excise tax coming to your union health care package in 2018 or will the rich be covering that for you too?

Shaw Kenawe said...

I didn't see the Ivanka Trump interview. When was it? After the debate? No, she doesn't have to STFU, but I can understand why people would be annoyed with her talking about what great opportunities her father gave her to succeed. How could she not succeed with a billionaire backing her up? What was the point of the interview, anyway? Was it about the Democratic debate?

Ducky, Bernie and Hillary carried the night. Bernie is my choice, but I'm not sure he can win nationally. This country always goes for the middle, and Hillary knows how to appeal to that.

Trump is nowhere near the middle, but the TBers can't see that because they live in a bubble. Let's hope they give him the nomination because he'll never win, no matter who the Democrats run. The majority of Americans are not as nuts as the TeaParty crazies.

Ray, I didn't see the interview or even hear about it until you came here. I looked it up on the 'net and didn't see what relevance it had to do with anything. I don't think anyone's mind will change about Trump by listening to what she said. She's just a daughter saying nice things about her father. No one takes it seriously.

RN, see my comment to Ray Cranston.

Anon, you sound like skudrunner.

skudrunner said...


I do resent that comment about me but anon did nail the truth.
Where in all that boredom did anyone mention opportunity, creating good jobs, getting corporations to move jobs back, promote family unity, accept personal responsibility. What am I talking about, this was a democrat debate.

H acted like a seasoned politician,when asked a question don't provide an answer just divert the question with an answer to a question not asked and blame someone else.
Use the bankrupt California as an example of personal leave policy not bankrupting small business.

Guess in your mind the debate showed leadership by continuing the current failed policies. Oh well we do have global warming as the biggest threat we face.

Shaw Kenawe said...

"Where in all that boredom did anyone mention opportunity, creating good jobs, getting corporations to move jobs back, promote family unity, accept personal responsibility."

I don't blame you for being disappointed with the TeaPublicans who did not bring those issues up.

And it's true that in the TEaPublican debates Trump acted like a clueless jackass, when he was asked a question and didn't provide an answer -- just diverted the question with boasts about how great he'll be and how he'll do terrific things and how his poll numbers are the best and how ugly Carly Fiorina is and how Megyn Kelly has blood coming out of her whatever and how the Mexicans are all rapists and just recently he said he would nuke ISIS.

And let's not forget the second runner up to TRump, Dr. Ben, who compares the Obama administration to the Nazis, who says the ACA is worse than slavery, who says prison makes people gay, who says Evolution is the work of the Devil, and that the Jews were responsible for their own deaths because they didn't fight against the German army, an army that was the fiercest in Europe and that defeated several countries.

You have a nerve to come here and denigrate the Democratic Party's debate. You need to look at the nincompoops your party is supporting as possible leaders of the U.S. The rest of the country and the world laughs at them, but you and the people in the TGOP living in a bubble don't get it at all.

That's why we truly encourage you and your friends to choose tRUMP as your nominee. Please do it. We beg you to.

Failed policies? Go compare where this country was in 2007 and 2008 to where it is today. If you don't understand that we have VASTLY improved where we were in all economic areas, you need to have your head examined. And I don't mean that as a joke.

Jerry Critter said...

"...bankrupt California..."
Perhaps you should read what Bloomberg has to say about CA. It is far from bankrupted. Most states wish they were doing as well as CA.

Democratic policies work!

Flying Junior said...

Bankrupt California?

Nobody told me!

Shaw Kenawe said...

Here's a report from the San Jose Mercury:

"California's budget surplus soars to new heights; schools to benefit
By Jessica Calefati and Theresa HarringtonStaff writers

SACRAMENTO -- In the clearest sign yet that the Great California Recovery is proceeding on pace, Assembly Speaker Toni Atkins announced Tuesday that the state's revenue has climbed as much as $8 billion in the last four months.

The state's public schools will receive the bulk of that windfall under Proposition 98, and Assembly Democrats hope it's used to increase average per-pupil spending and expand access to quality child care and preschool programs, the San Diego Democrat said.

Another chunk of change must be saved for a rainy day under a proposition approved by California voters in November. But the Legislature will likely also have about a billion dollars to play around with -- a happy accident that's expected to set off fights among health, poverty and other interest groups about how to spend the extra cash."

California did have a serious problem after Arnold Schwartzenegger left office. He left California in shambles because of his governing ineptness. And I remember how enthralled the GOP was with him, even considering passing aConstitutional amendment so that he could run for president.

Another case of the GOP falling fall a no-substance pol --like the did with Sarah Palin, and like they are doing now with Trump, Carson, and Fiorina.

Also, as you know from reading this blog, skudrunner does not deal in facts and does not contribute to a discussion. His idea of dialog on these boards is to drop in and do drive-by snark, usually making factless (or as one of his fellow travelers call them) false facts.

Flying Junior lives in California, as does my daughter and her family, and my nephew and his family and several cousins and their families. I do know a bit about what's going on in that state.

skudrunner said...

You are correct, California is a democrats paradise. I have a daughter there and I can't get her to wake up and move out.

"California’s economy continues to head south. The highest state corporate tax rates, sales and gasoline taxes in the country, combined with a heavy regulatory burden, continue to drive business away."

Rational Nation USA said...

Wow skudrunner, do you have a link to the quoted source? Certainly would be appreciated.

Obviously a state with no businesses would be a poor state indeed.

Shaw Kenawe said...

RN, skud's quote came from The American Spectator in an article written by a friend of Ronald Reagan. It was published March 2014.