"They say that the United States has had its day in the sun, that our nation has passed its zenith. They expect you to tell your children that the American people no longer have the will to cope with their problems; that the future will be one of sacrifice and few opportunities.
My fellow citizens, I utterly reject that view. The American people, the most generous on earth, who created the highest standard of living, are not going to accept the notion that we can only make a better world for others by moving backward ourselves. And those who believe we can have no business leading this nation.
I will not stand by and watch this great country destroy itself under mediocre leadership that drifts from one crisis to the next, eroding our national will and purpose. We have come together here because the American people deserve better from those to whom they entrust our nation's highest offices, and we stand united in our resolve to do something about it."
"On May 3, 1994, Ronald Reagan and two other former presidents sent a letter to House members, urging them to support a controversial ban on lethal, military-style assault weapons. At the time, President Clinton was battling Republicans, conservative Democrats and the NRA to pass a bill barring many semiautomatic rifles.
Clinton needed all the help he could get it. He got it from Reagan, who still carried great weight in the Republican Party, as well as Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Their letter, in part, read:
This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
"Even with the support of four presidents, the assault weapons vote in the House was a cliffhanger, passing 216-214 after one Indiana Democrat changed his “no” to a “yes.” Thirty-eight Republicans voted for the bill, including retiring House Minority Leader Robert Michel of Illinois.
For the next ten years, until the Republican-controlled House allowed the law to expire in 2004, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons could not be sold. During that decade, a researcher from the University of Massachusetts found that mass shootings totaling six or more deaths dropped. But once the ban was gone, they soared."
There's your Ronald Reagan -- AGAINST ASSAULT-TYPE WEAPONS!
"Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."
Clearly Scalia believed, as did Reagan, Ford, Carter and Clinton that some abridgments to our 2nd Amendment rights were indeed appropriate.
The NRA and the current crop of conservatives? Not so much...
So you will blame the rock not the thrower. Blaming the rock or in this case the gun does fit into the talking points that are being pushed to divert attention to everything else that is failing. I don't expect our elected elite to work on a solution because then they can't blame each other. The swell guy had an opportunity to do something but chose not to as did the orange hair. Far to politically convenient to just point and say it's their fault not ours.
You just refuse to understand this truth: We have these massacres because there are too many "rocks" available to the "rock throwers!"
No other country on the planet has firearm massacres on a regular basis as the US does --two more that I know of just this weekend, one in Oklahoma and one in Tennessee. Those two states are among the states with the easiest access to guns.
The states with the most lax gun laws are the red states; the states with better regulated firearms are the blue states. The states with the most massacres are the red states.
AND TEXAS LEADS THEM ALL.
It's the gun! Guns! Guns!
There's no other excuse.
Our politicians are cowards who have made gun worship the American State Religion.
Well... how many rocks can someone throw in 60 seconds? 5? 6 if he's really quick? And how many of those rocks are likely to be deadly?
As opposed to how many bullets can be shot from an AR 15 or Bushmaster 15 in 60 seconds. Multiple site put the number is 45, most of which in a classroom of children will probably lead to death.
Look, you're reaching. We get it. But can you tell us lefty libs this...
What solutions would you propose to diminish mass, single location shootings here in the US. What would you support, if anything to try and cut down on the numbers of deaths when someone crazy decides to shoot up a theater, school, church or market?
Rev, I did expect you to pick up on the rock throwing because you claim to be a christian but I guess politics trumps religion.
There have been many administrations who have said we need to get a handle on gun violence and yet none of them have done anything. They all talk and carry a little stick, that is a joke aimed at TR in case you are not aware. Does anyone use a AR of AK for hunting, no because they are not designed to hunt. Should an 18 year old be allowed to purchase an AK, not in my book.
Here is what I believe but YOMV. In order to purchase a AR, AK or other high capacity rifles you need a special permit. I believe everyone who owns a gun should be licensed because, like a car, it is a deadly weapon and you should have to prove proficiency. I also believe that if you are caught with a firearm and you are not licensed you should be prosecuted.
Ms Shaw does not appreciate using Chicago as an example because it is not the top of the heap for gun violence and they just don't matter. Don't tell the people in Chicago that they are not in fear of being shot. Institute stop and frisk and if someone has a gun illegally throw them in jail even if it hurts their feelings. Oh and Ms Shaw, the cities you mentioned have one thing in common, not that that is an excuse.
Skud posted... "Here is what I believe but YOMV. In order to purchase a AR, AK or other high capacity rifles you need a special permit. I believe everyone who owns a gun should be licensed because, like a car, it is a deadly weapon and you should have to prove proficiency. I also believe that if you are caught with a firearm and you are not licensed you should be prosecuted."
You're right Skud... our, or my opinion may vary, but it is refreshing to see you wade in with something definitive. That's twice in recent memory and I appreciate it.
Everything you mentioned will not eliminate mass shootings, but it would probably diminish their frequency and deadliness.
And everything you suggested will be opposed by a small minority of Americans who vote with outsized influence in primaries across the country. This insures that Senators and members of Congress will continue to oppose even the slightest of tweeks to the system.
Because to do so will jeopardize their jobs.
BTW... the ongoing violence in Chicago is a terrible problem. No doubt about that at all. But there is a difference. Those numbers come in a drip drip drip fashion that fails to galvanize public opinion.
I'm guessing if some gang banger in Chi Town walked into a day care center and shot it up killing lots of young babies, we'd see action.
But that's not what is happening.
I don't like it, I'd like to see something done, but it's where we are.
Just because I can't solve one terrible problem, does not mean I can't, or shouldn't even bother with trying to solve another.
Ms. Shaw, Crime takes place at a local level and, while the states may be Red states all of the cities you mentioned are very much blue. I'm assuming you knew that.
Rev, what additional action can a city take that BANS guns even if a banger shot up something. Maybe hurt some feelings and institute stop and frisk or another unique idea elect a DA who is not reluctant to prosecute criminals and not let them out of jail with no bail. That would be radical for the cities Ms. Shaw mentioned who as she pointed out are at the top of the heap.
20 comments:
"They say that the United States has had its day in the sun, that our nation has passed its zenith. They expect you to tell your children that the American people no longer have the will to cope with their problems; that the future will be one of sacrifice and few opportunities.
My fellow citizens, I utterly reject that view. The American people, the most generous on earth, who created the highest standard of living, are not going to accept the notion that we can only make a better world for others by moving backward ourselves. And those who believe we can have no business leading this nation.
I will not stand by and watch this great country destroy itself under mediocre leadership that drifts from one crisis to the next, eroding our national will and purpose. We have come together here because the American people deserve better from those to whom they entrust our nation's highest offices, and we stand united in our resolve to do something about it."
-- Ronald Reagan ... 1976)
"On May 3, 1994, Ronald Reagan and two other former presidents sent a letter to House members, urging them to support a controversial ban on lethal, military-style assault weapons. At the time, President Clinton was battling Republicans, conservative Democrats and the NRA to pass a bill barring many semiautomatic rifles.
Clinton needed all the help he could get it. He got it from Reagan, who still carried great weight in the Republican Party, as well as Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Their letter, in part, read:
This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
(cont.)
"Even with the support of four presidents, the assault weapons vote in the House was a cliffhanger, passing 216-214 after one Indiana Democrat changed his “no” to a “yes.” Thirty-eight Republicans voted for the bill, including retiring House Minority Leader Robert Michel of Illinois.
For the next ten years, until the Republican-controlled House allowed the law to expire in 2004, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons could not be sold. During that decade, a researcher from the University of Massachusetts found that mass shootings totaling six or more deaths dropped. But once the ban was gone, they soared."
There's your Ronald Reagan -- AGAINST ASSAULT-TYPE WEAPONS!
Doubt Reagan would be a republican were he alive today. He sure as hell would very likely denounce tRump and the new tRumpublican party.
From the late SCOTUS Justice Scalia...
"Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."
Clearly Scalia believed, as did Reagan, Ford, Carter and Clinton that some abridgments to our 2nd Amendment rights were indeed appropriate.
The NRA and the current crop of conservatives? Not so much...
This is harsh, I know, but I put a lot of the blame on the GOP for what's happened across America.
Today, there was another mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Another state with lax gun laws.
I can't think of ONE GOP legislator who wants stricter gun laws and who want to stop the sale of AR-15s. Not one.
This is a GOP/Republican problem! They don't care about our children!
The truth of the matter, in my biased opinion, is that the now, for all intents and purposes, defunct GOP
23 shot and 5 fatally in Chicago so far this weekend, another city with restrictive gun laws. It can't be the idiots fault so it must the the guns.
Indiana has some of the most lax firearms laws in the country, and it's only a half hour drive from Chicago.
Weapons of mass murder pour into Chicago, a city with strict gun laws, from Indiana. That's the problem.
PS> Chicago isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous cities.
10 Most Dangerous Cities in the US (#1 is the highest cost of crime)
Detroit, Michigan.
New Orleans, Louisiana.
Baltimore, Maryland.
Memphis, Tennessee.
Cleveland, Ohio.
Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Kansas City, Missouri.
Shreveport, Louisiana.
Feb 23, 2022
Stop parroting right wing talking points. They're wrong.
PSS. skud,
Texas has the highest number of massacres by firearms in the U.S.
That's an entire state!
10 Most Dangerous Cities in the US
1) St. Louis, Missouri
2)Jackson, Mississippi
3)Detroit, Michigan
4)New Orleans, Louisiana
5)Baltimore, Maryland
6)Memphis, Tennessee
7)Cleveland, Ohio
8)Baton Rouge, Louisiana
9)Kansas City, Missouri
10) Shreveport, Louisiana
Chicago doesn't make the top 10.
So you will blame the rock not the thrower. Blaming the rock or in this case the gun does fit into the talking points that are being pushed to divert attention to everything else that is failing. I don't expect our elected elite to work on a solution because then they can't blame each other. The swell guy had an opportunity to do something but chose not to as did the orange hair. Far to politically convenient to just point and say it's their fault not ours.
You just refuse to understand this truth: We have these massacres because there are too many "rocks" available to the "rock throwers!"
No other country on the planet has firearm massacres on a regular basis as the US does --two more that I know of just this weekend, one in Oklahoma and one in Tennessee. Those two states are among the states with the easiest access to guns.
The states with the most lax gun laws are the red states; the states with better regulated firearms are the blue states. The states with the most massacres are the red states.
AND TEXAS LEADS THEM ALL.
It's the gun! Guns! Guns!
There's no other excuse.
Our politicians are cowards who have made gun worship the American State Religion.
PS stop using Chicago as some sort of example for your anti-regulation stance.
Chicago didn't even make the top ten most dangerous cities in the U.S. Check the link above.
Skud... blame the rock and not the thrower?
Well... how many rocks can someone throw in 60 seconds? 5? 6 if he's really quick? And how many of those rocks are likely to be deadly?
As opposed to how many bullets can be shot from an AR 15 or Bushmaster 15 in 60 seconds. Multiple site put the number is 45, most of which in a classroom of children will probably lead to death.
Look, you're reaching. We get it. But can you tell us lefty libs this...
What solutions would you propose to diminish mass, single location shootings here in the US. What would you support, if anything to try and cut down on the numbers of deaths when someone crazy decides to shoot up a theater, school, church or market?
Is there anything?
Rev, I did expect you to pick up on the rock throwing because you claim to be a christian but I guess politics trumps religion.
There have been many administrations who have said we need to get a handle on gun violence and yet none of them have done anything. They all talk and carry a little stick, that is a joke aimed at TR in case you are not aware. Does anyone use a AR of AK for hunting, no because they are not designed to hunt. Should an 18 year old be allowed to purchase an AK, not in my book.
Here is what I believe but YOMV. In order to purchase a AR, AK or other high capacity rifles you need a special permit. I believe everyone who owns a gun should be licensed because, like a car, it is a deadly weapon and you should have to prove proficiency. I also believe that if you are caught with a firearm and you are not licensed you should be prosecuted.
Ms Shaw does not appreciate using Chicago as an example because it is not the top of the heap for gun violence and they just don't matter. Don't tell the people in Chicago that they are not in fear of being shot. Institute stop and frisk and if someone has a gun illegally throw them in jail even if it hurts their feelings. Oh and Ms Shaw, the cities you mentioned have one thing in common, not that that is an excuse.
Skud posted... "Here is what I believe but YOMV. In order to purchase a AR, AK or other high capacity rifles you need a special permit. I believe everyone who owns a gun should be licensed because, like a car, it is a deadly weapon and you should have to prove proficiency. I also believe that if you are caught with a firearm and you are not licensed you should be prosecuted."
You're right Skud... our, or my opinion may vary, but it is refreshing to see you wade in with something definitive. That's twice in recent memory and I appreciate it.
Everything you mentioned will not eliminate mass shootings, but it would probably diminish their frequency and deadliness.
And everything you suggested will be opposed by a small minority of Americans who vote with outsized influence in primaries across the country. This insures that Senators and members of Congress will continue to oppose even the slightest of tweeks to the system.
Because to do so will jeopardize their jobs.
BTW... the ongoing violence in Chicago is a terrible problem. No doubt about that at all. But there is a difference. Those numbers come in a drip drip drip fashion that fails to galvanize public opinion.
I'm guessing if some gang banger in Chi Town walked into a day care center and shot it up killing lots of young babies, we'd see action.
But that's not what is happening.
I don't like it, I'd like to see something done, but it's where we are.
Just because I can't solve one terrible problem, does not mean I can't, or shouldn't even bother with trying to solve another.
Also Skud... I have no idea what you mean by this...
"Rev, I did expect you to pick up on the rock throwing because you claim to be a christian but I guess politics trumps religion."
skud: "Oh and Ms Shaw, the cities you mentioned have one thing in common, not that that is an excuse."
Well, except for 3 of them, they're all red states.
Ms. Shaw, Crime takes place at a local level and, while the states may be Red states all of the cities you mentioned are very much blue. I'm assuming you knew that.
Rev, what additional action can a city take that BANS guns even if a banger shot up something. Maybe hurt some feelings and institute stop and frisk or another unique idea elect a DA who is not reluctant to prosecute criminals and not let them out of jail with no bail. That would be radical for the cities Ms. Shaw mentioned who as she pointed out are at the top of the heap.
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