(I saw this 3 hour and 20 minute film 2 weeks ago. It is based on American history. Go see it.)
This is happening in Trumplandia, where those in charge do NOT want to teach American history, but rather American fantasy and ignore the truth.
When this happens in any part of our country -- when censorship hides the truth from certain segments of its population -- what prevents the authorities from lying about or hiding the truth from anything the government chooses?
History is NOT about protecting weak people's delicate feelings, but rather history means telling what happened.
The state government in Oklahoma has failed its constituents by covering up its own history.
From Jackie Flynn Mogenson's article in Mother Jones:
But in Oklahoma, where the murders took place, teachers say they aren’t sure they’re allowed to teach it in class.
Under state measure HB 1775, schools are prohibited from teaching the idea that 'an individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously' or that 'any individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race or sex.'
Of course, HB 1775 doesn’t specifically ban Killers of the Flower Moon. But the law is so vague that some educators reportedly say that they have avoided assigning the book and other texts out of fear of punishment.
According to the Oklahoman, for instance, a Dewey High School teacher said last year she decided against adding the book to her curriculum “because she feared discussing the racial dynamics of the Osage murders could prompt an HB 1775 complaint.”
Citing these concerns, Native groups—including the Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Tribes (the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Seminole, and Muscogee nations) as well as the Osage Nation Congress—have formally opposed HB 1775.
'The vague wording of the law has contributed to fear among school districts and teachers about teaching accurate historical information,' the council wrote last year, 'including accurate history of the experiences of Native American peoples in Oklahoma.' ”
48 comments:
When I started my mental health journey I learned in order to move forward I had to acknowledge my past, come to terms with it, confront all the times I made the incorrect decision and harmed my fellow humans as a result.
As I live my life by the rule that all things are fractal, what I learned I would hope the country I adore learns too. We can't shy away from the fact that citizens of this country willfully and with all forethought and cruelty massacred humans for the crime of not being white and occupying land they wanted.
This isn't an issue specific to the USA but we do put our own special spin on it (see the back story of what really happened at the Massacre at Sand Creek - another event not covered by the Department of Education).
I have ideas on how to do better - of course I do. Won't bore anyone with the details as my thesis is quite long. Suffice it to say there are better models already used around the world. As Americans it behooves us to do better now that we know better.
Grey... I learned the story of Sand Creek from, hold your breath, a fellow evangelical. Chapter and verse he spelled it all out in one of his books. It truly opened my eyes and contributed mightily to changing the way I think.
To the post in general...
What Americans did to the indigenous people, all in the name of Christ and under the Doctrine of Discovery was and remains hideous. For those wanting to learn more about that and the dehumanization and murder that was perpetrated around the globe, in the name of the church, I recommend Robert P Jones' book "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy".
Dare I say most Americans are 100% ignorant of the doctrine used to justify the killings of indigenous people not only here in America but elsewhere as well.
However the most disappointing part is how even in recent history, the SCOTUS, and not just the conservatives, have upheld this doctrine.
...sounds like Oklahomans are doing a pretty good job of sailing between Scylla & Charybdis, unlike some idiots who want sail them directly steer for Charybdis.
Very sad time and the treatment of Native Americans is still disgusting thanks to the incompetence of the federal government and their demand to make them totally dependent on government support. Legalized gambling have provided the tribes income to improve the living conditions but they still rely on government support to a large degree and have for decades.
skudrunner: "...thanks to the incompetence of the federal government and their demand to make them totally dependent on government support."
skud, the government is not some amorphous, faceless instrument. The federal government, in those days, was made up of white Christian men. That was the composition of the government that instituted the hideous displacement of Native Americans; and then when there was treasure in the form of oil found on the reservation, white Christian men conspired to cheat them out of it, through murderous means.
You can learn more about this shameful history by reading about President Andrew Jackson and Worcester vs. Georgia.
Teaching generations about the times we've failed to live up to our ideals doesn't make us "hate America," as some people have claimed. It teaches us to NOT REPEAT those failures, in order to become a more perfect union.
Dave M. "Dare I say most Americans are 100% ignorant of the doctrine used to justify the killings of indigenous people not only here in America but elsewhere as well."
I believe that much of the treatment of indigenous people is based on religion. After all, missionaries in the past have looked upon them as "savages" and believed they had to be saved by bringing them to Christianity.
The history of what happened to the indigenous people of the Hawaiian Islands is just one example.
Sorry gang, the idea was not, as Skud alleged, to make Native Americans dependent on the Feds, the policy was to wipe them out.
The decisions made back then by the men who made up and ran our government and military were horrendous. It was effectively a policy of genocide. And yes, it was conceived of and carried out by white men, justified by a larger global policy that dehumanized and categorized indigenous people as savages, thus fair game for again, mostly white European Christian men to kill and subjugate.
And the suffering continues today.
Yes Shaw, your statement, "After all, missionaries in the past have looked upon them as "savages" and believed they had to be saved by bringing them to Christianity", is well documented.
And the "them" was defined as anyone not like the folks with the guns and swords.
It was a policy of convert or face death, backed up in the 15th century by then Pope Alexander VI. Here's a snippet from one review of Jones' book...
"In 1493, Pope Alexander VI issued an edict praising Columbus for extending European dominion to lands “not previously possessed by any Christian owner.” The declaration was part of what became known as the 'Doctrine of Discovery,' an enduring if amorphously defined set of proclamations and legalistic rituals created in the late 15th century to validate European appropriation of the territories of the Western Hemisphere and justify colonization — including, in 1541, in what is now Mississippi, by the Spanish explorer Hernando De Soto, who claimed much of the South.
Now before my Protestant brethren go all "Yes Dave, but that was Catholics" on me, let's remember, the continuance of this doctrine and the founding of our country was by Christian Pilgrims leaving Europe "striving to be free" and worship as they wanted. And Native Americans be damned if they got in the way.
Terrible policy, that our SCOTUS justices RBG and Alito have both affirmed in majority judicial rulings.
In "Civilization and Its Discontents," Freud was specifically writing about the threat of latent aggression as a universal feature of human nature. In Freudian psychology, aggression comes from the id and, unless unchecked by the superego, makes the ego a slave to the id’s wanton greed, lusts, covetousness, envy, etc. – all toxic byproducts of latent aggression. The id knows no boundaries and like a toddler it wants what it wants when it wants it. A well-developed superego in the parent role is needed to set limits for the id. One need only look around to see multitudes of people fueled by aggression, their ids unchecked by a strong superego, allowing their egos to slavishly serve their darker impulses.
With this in mind, perhaps it is unsurprising that Freud called America "a gigantic mistake." He only visited the U.S. once, but held America and Americans in contempt.
Les probably wants Americans to diminish our Ego's. Maybe we just need to strengthen our SuperEgos. But I'm sure, that would be too "authoritarian" for his taste. Hence his current preference for an even more totalitarian "psychopolitics".
btw - Ever heard of the Porcupine's/ Hedgehog's dilemma?
@ Dave, et al - It's funny how the Government's policy of creating heterotopia's for Indians to live on contrasts so sharply and contradict all your claims regarding their supposedly "genocidal" intentions toward them.
Dave
I've been watching the PBS series "Little Bird." I highly recommend it for those who hope to get an understanding about how certain groups inaccurately believed it was their duty to "save" the indigenous peoples from themselves. I've wept at each episode.
I've also just finished a novel, "A Thousand Moons," by the acclaimed Irish author, Sebastian Barry, which is about a young orphaned Lakota girl adopted by two American men, and takes place in Tennessee in the 1870s.
...Huxley's "Islands" within a greater continental sea.
-FJ: " @ Dave, et al - It's funny how the Government's policy of creating heterotopia's for Indians to live on contrasts so sharply and contradict all your claims regarding their supposedly "genocidal" intentions toward them."
There were no "layers of meaning" in displacing indigenous peoples of North America from their native lands onto worthless, marginal land. The goal of many in government in those days was to see the Native peoples die out and to be rid of the problem.
That's your interpretation. Another would be that they wanted the Indians to be free to retain their indigenous cultures... which proved unsustainable but for the vastest and most abundant of lands. One can only wonder why so many failed to 'adapt"... like the "casino" tribes.
One can only wonder how well freed slaves would have "adpated", had they been given 40 acres and a mule or an entire country, like "Liberia".
Must be that "unwillingness" to adopt more 'Christian' values, ya think?
If the government just wanted undesirables to "die out", maybe they should convince them that abortion=freedom to choose?
The influence of the Counter-Enlightenment has not been entirely nihilistic and rejectionist. It has deeply influenced Isaiah Berlin, one of the chief apostles of liberal political theory in the twentieth century. Berlin hoped to infuse what he saw as the rationalism and universalism of the Enlightenment with the Counter-Enlightenment’s emphasis on individuality, self-expression, moral diversity or what he called “value pluralism.” These ideas were best expressed by German romantics like Herder but can also be found in writers like Vico, Montesquieu, and Hume. Berlin saw moral and political life as torn between competing and irreconcilable values that applied also to nations and cultures each of which contains morally distinctive ways of life. It was this awareness that not all values are compatible and that life is a matter of choice between competing goods that gives his liberalism both a tragic and a heroic dimension.
-FJ "One can only wonder why so many failed to 'adapt..."
One can only wonder why the Pilgrims, who arrived on the coast of New England in November with insufficient food and shelter, failed to adapt without the help of the Native Americans. The Wampanoag people, the “People of the First Light,” are responsible for saving the Pilgrims from starvation and death during the harsh winter of 1620–21.
Because while the Wampanoags did help the Pilgrims survive, their support was followed by years of a slow, unfolding genocide of their people and the taking of their land.
...but then again, America is absolutely filled with "choices"... but much like our elections, are disguised as Hobson's choices. :(
Fweeeeedom!
Wampanoags...
So tell me, pShaw, how well did the Huron's get along with their Mohican neighbors?
:P
You are all blinded by <a href='https://youtu.be/y7Kxum63CtA?si=5jOuqLHp_pvO9UFz">modern prejudices</a>. 'Christian' prejudices.
We can't all retreat into Schopenhauer's world.
-FJ
Liberia isn't America, with a Constitution that guarantees (but often doesn't not deliver) equality of justice.
A better example would be Tulsa, Oklahoma:
The Tulsa race massacre, also known as the Tulsa race riot or the Black Wall Street massacre, was a two-day-long white supremacist terrorist massacre that took place between May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of white residents, some of whom had been appointed as deputies and armed by city government officials, attacked black residents and destroyed homes and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The event is considered one of the worst incidents of racial violence in American history. The attackers burned and destroyed more than 35 square blocks of the neighborhood—at the time one of the wealthiest black communities in the United States, colloquially known as "Black Wall Street".
Or Rosewood.
Rev, It was not the governments idea to eliminate the people but to eliminate their culture. The "christian" leaders were threatened by a whole group not believing like them. This is much the same as today where if you believe in a different party you should not exist. Guess we just don't learn well.
Ms. Shaw, The white christian men have been replaced with an assortment of political appointees who have no idea what the Native American's need or want. The government still wants total control and that is why we have Indian land and reservations. It is not to allow the tribes to succeed but to make sure they are controlled.
lol! Tulsa was a crime, not a government. About 20 blacks die every weekend in crimes in Chicago? Why don't you stop THAT?
Oh, gotta be "affirmative"... the Democrat's "unspoken" rules tripping you up again.
*tsk-Tsk*
"-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
Must be that "unwillingness" to adopt more 'Christian' values, ya think?"
A great number of people in this country who consider themselves Christians and adhere to "Christian values" (the Speaker of the House, for example), admire and continue to support Donald J. Trump, a serial adulterer, a person credibly found liable for raping a woman, a person whose organization, the Trump Organization, was found guilty guilty on multiple charges of criminal tax fraud and falsifying business records connected to a 15-year scheme to defraud tax authorities by failing to report and pay taxes on compensation for top executives. And a person who is facing 91 felony indictments on other crimes, and who incited an insurrection against his own government with his followers calling for the death of his own vice president.
That brand of "Christianity" and those who support the "values" of Trumpism, are a disgrace to not just this country, but to other Christians who actually practice and follow the tenets of their religion.
-FJ's Freud quote revealed the essence of his Trump cult ideology:
"One need only look around to see multitudes of people fueled by aggression, their ids unchecked by a strong superego, allowing their egos to slavishly serve their darker impulses."
THIS is EXACTLY how Trump's J6 insurrection was incited and perpetrated.
I'm still wondering when -FJ will show us the evidence that Biden stole the election. He seems to shy away from the subject.
skud Ever hear the saying, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian?"
Where'd that come from?
Actually, there was a time in our history when murdering a Native American was NOT considered a homicide, or breaking the law, and few who murdered Native Americans were imprisoned for it. Why do you suppose that was so? To change their culture?
"The governor of Colorado on in 2021 revoked a 157-year-old proclamation that called for state citizens to kill Native Americans and steal their property.
Gov. Jared Polis said the removal of the proclamation represents “tearing down this harmful symbol of hate and sending a message about who we are as Coloradans and what we value.”
“We can’t change the past, but we can honor the memories of those who we lost by recognizing their sacrifice and vowing to do better,” Polis said during the signing.
The 1864 proclamation issued by Colorado’s second territorial governor, John Evans, was one of two orders, according to a copy of Polis’ executive order. The first order, issued in June 1864, directed Native American residents “to gather at specific camps,” while the second order, issued two months later, commanded Coloradans to “kill and destroy … hostile Indians” and encouraged them to “take captive” any property from these Native Americans."
Indians never killed the homo sacer in their territories? Who knew?
Oooops, did I break your "unwritten rule" of minority "affirmation or silence", again?
LOL!
Totalitarian psychopolitics doesn't look very good on you, pShaw.
Skud said, "Rev, It was not the governments idea to eliminate the people but to eliminate their culture."
That sounds like a distinction without a difference. Shaw has provided at least one example where killing of the people, as opposed to their culture, was the objective.
And while government may have called it a policy of eliminating their culture, settlers and armies seemed to take as meaning to be effective in that, they had to kill everyone. Even those with whom we had signed peace treaties.
How about the US Government paying a bounty for "Indian Skulls"?
Sand Creek?
The California Massacres?
Forced sterilization of Native American women in the 1930's?
There's more than enough evidence that US policy, while maybe in word aimed at killing a culture, in practice was really killing Native Americans.
-FJ, I'll go with the historians on this.
-FJ
Of course Native Americans warred with other tribes. They are human beings, just like us. Except that the European settlers were supposedly civilized Christians who were supposed to see Christ in their fellow human beings. They were civilized Christians committing ethnocide and genocide on the native populations.
Just like their Savior would have wanted, eh?
Life has never been fair for many people. life is very unfair for women in the Middle East I don't hear anybody speaking out against the horror that happened to the Jewish people in Gaza especially what they did to women.
Of Course we can address the wrongdoings done to people. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that. But today in this day and age we have more atrocities against many people in many countries and women and children are the most vulnerable in many of those countries. From child trafficking to rape abuse honor killings. FGM. What about a white high school student that was beaten to death by a group of minorities in Las Vegas? What about a woman young woman beautiful young woman and Gaza that was raped killed and her naked body was paraded around.
That's not history that's today and we should be more concerned about what's happening today than going back to the past cuz we can't correct the mistakes of the past but we can correct the mistakes of today if we really wanted to. But the only thing the UN is concerned about is eating meat.
Lisa... you're just wrong on the facts. The great majority of Americans from both the left and the right have been very supportive of Israel. Granted, there are always idiots on the fringe, but that's always been true, no matter the issue.
But to claim no one is speaking out against the "horror that happened to the Jewish people in Gaza" is purposefully ignoring the facts.
Here's part of President Biden's statement...
"More than 1,000 civilians slaughtered — not just killed, slaughtered — in Israel. Among them, at least 14 American citizens killed.
Parents butchered using their bodies to try to protect their children.
Stomach-turning reports of being — babies being killed.
Entire families slain.
Young people massacred while attending a musical festival to celebrate peace — to celebrate peace.
Women raped, assaulted, paraded as trophies.
Families hid their fear for hours and hours, desperately trying to keep their children quiet to avoid drawing attention."
How can you say what you did in light of this? Own up to it Lisa, you are wrong.
And the reason we keep seeing this type of stuff is because we refuse to learn the lessons of the past, of mankind's brutal history both here in the US and abroad.
You don't learn by ignoring it, as some would wish. We learn through acknowledgement of the horrors and deciding to condemn those bad behaviors and never letting them happen again.
Then and only then, can we be sure that, for example, nowhere on earth and certainly nowhere in the US, will we have to see people marching in streets with torches, Nazi flags and chants of "Jews will not replace us" ever again.
Rev, You must have read a different post from Lisa than I did. You did state the fact that if someone disagrees with you they are idiots so that says a lot. I didn't read that Lisa said don't support Israel but have outrage against all injustice and don't blame everything on the republican white guy. Joey b is in a tough position and he doesn't handle that well. He mumbles through his reading of his ideas and has zero enthusiasm unless he is condemning republicans or whispering some nonsense about how great the economy is.
The collateral damage will only increase because of blurred lines and the violence in the US will only get more organized. Have you noticed how the the MSM has ignored the crisis at the border with thousands crossing weekly. Now they have something else to report on and give joey b a lot of slack about his horrific policy of open border.
Skud said... "You did state the fact that if someone disagrees with you they are idiots so that says a lot."
Provide the quote please.
The sickness that is American reactionary dogma and American conservative hypocrisy is destrying comon sense and limiting the ability of those folks to see reality. They've built the non reaity they want to believe and the rest suffer the result.
Rev, Poetic liberty but you did say "Granted, there are always idiots on the fringe, but that's always been true, no matter the issue." Again if someone has a different opinion they are idiots.
Skud... Poetic liberty?
You quoted me directly.
And then dodged.
Maybe this will help...
skud - you do realize you just outed yourself as a fringe believer?
Dave said in response to Lisa "Lisa... you're just wrong on the facts. The great majority of Americans from both the left and the right have been very supportive of Israel. Granted, there are always idiots on the fringe, but that's always been true, no matter the issue."
And you just had to comment that he called you an idiot. OK - but only if you agree 100% with Lisa - which you just said you did by taking umbrage at Dave calling you something he didn't do!!!
Oh, my sides. If I still had a dog I would have woken them up... ROFL you just outed yourself as an idiot. Oh you are precious skud, really and truly.
Grey, Thanks for the comment. I will assume you have a different opinion but I won't call you names because that accomplishes nothing.
Lisa: "I don't hear anybody speaking out against the horror that happened to the Jewish people in Gaza especially what they did to women."
Lisa, Dave M. showed you and us in the comments that people have spoken out on the horrors of the Oct. 7 attack on Israelis. You didn't bother to come back here and acknowledge that you were mistaken.
In fact, when you do come here and post something that's not true, you NEVER acknowledge that you were mistaken. You just ignore the facts that were presented and post another comment on another subject that is also incorrect.
Why do you do that?
Maybe, just maybe... just talking about it NOT ENOUGH???
That men, and women, and children be-headers MUST BE PUNISHED!!!
And not like DEMNs do -- we mourned about killed Jews... so now we can start condemning Jews, for killing "innocent Palestinians".
Anonymous, what do you want humans thousands of miles away to do exactly?
Yes, Hamas perpetrated horrible acts.
Yes Netanyahu and his administration knew at least a year ahead of the attack all the particulars necessary to stop/avoid the attack.
Yes, there are innocents dying by the truck load in this battle for existence; none of which have any voice in policy.
It is possible to stand with the Palestinian and Israeli people, believing both deserve homes free from violence and oppression. It is possible to condemn the actions of the leaders of both nations.
Added note - I did all this without bringing in any religion because as I understand the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there are three religions which hold the area as holy and none of them will share. They are, in my opinion, the perfect illustration of the Abel/Cain story since all three are the children of Abraham.
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