Paul Revere by Cyrus Dallin, North End, Boston



Saturday, April 13, 2024

Another Trump non-issue to rile up Trump cultists:

Noncitizen voting isn’t an issue in federal elections, regardless of conspiracy theories.


"Former President Donald Trump turned to one of his favorite themes on Friday — the specter of immigrants improperly voting in federal elections. 

House Speaker Mike Johnson came to the former president’s Florida compound to announce that he would introduce a bill to stop those who are not citizens from voting in elections. Trump has made baseless claims about this subject before, like in 2016, when he blamed his loss of the popular vote on voting by immigrants, and then appointed a commission to investigate the issue. It disbanded without identifying a single case of a noncitizen casting a vote. He and other Republicans have recently revved up their conspiratorial claims about the issue with the influx of migrants across the southern border under Biden, contending Democrats are letting them in to add them to the voter rolls.

The theory involves two complicated subjects, immigration and voting, but it’s actually very simple. There isn’t any indication that noncitizens vote in significant numbers in federal elections or that they will in the future. It’s already a crime for them to do so. And we know it’s not a danger because various states have examined their rolls and found very few noncitizen voters."


Les Carpenter said...

Simply a facist distraction in service to their zenophobia.

skudrunner said...

Just because it is not an issue in federal elections currently can people really trust joey b to not change this. He has a record of changing his position on damn near everything. Green new deal, nope then yep, support for Israel, full support then not so much, support the middle class then make them pay for the neighbors kids. It would be a good idea to make it a non-issue by making it firm and not something the thief can change because allowing illegals to vote would help the democrats in a big way. When joey b resigns for health reasons and cruella is anointed we need to protect our freedom because she will come after it.

Dave Miller said...

A solution in search of a problem.

No one, in any city, state or municipality has found or presented any evidence of widespread voting by non citizens in federal or state elections. After the 2016 federal elections a study that looked at 24 million votes that had been cast found that only 30 had come from non citizens.

Hardly a number that would change anything. And, it should be noted, it is already a federal crime and a crime in every state in the union for non citizens to vote.

So what are they doing? What "law" or "legislation" are they proposing? How does citizen Trump even do this? What is Speaker Johnson, a man who during his entire time as a Congressman only got a bill to give the president emergency powers during the Covid pandemic and bill to protect the ability of people to hunt with a bow and arrow passed, doing?

If this bill is so important, why didn't Congressman Johnson speak up previously? Surely he must have known how bad the problem was after the 2020 election, which he tried to overturn with a lawsuit that was quickly thrown out by the Trump appointed conservative SCOTUS majority.

All we can surmise is that this exercise is designed to gin up the base, raise the anger level among the MAGA team and make a mountain out of something smaller than a molehill solely to divide America.

Because the entire premise of the actions yesterday of both Trump and Johnson are based on nothing more than the lie that the 2020 election was stolen and rife with fraud perpetrated by "illegals" voting all across America.

Grey One talks sass said...

Speaker Johnson sounds oh so logical - why wouldn't you want a national bill to ensure only citizens vote? And I'd believe him except for that pesky fact that immigrants are already prevented from voting in national elections. Only citizens have that right, a fact borne out by the multiple investigations into this very issue after the 2020 election.

This is a diversion because Trump lost some support from his loyal cultists after the whole Abortion States Rights or Federal Ban issue. I guess there is a cost to playing both sides when ones followers are True Believers aka deluded that only their specific interpretation of the Christian holy book is the valid one.

Rage and hatred are powerful emotions; using a drug metaphor one needs more and more fuel to get the same gratification as before. This means the Voices of Authority for the MAGA cult need fresh blood to keep their followers primed and full of rage. Once this latest outrage has eased into the background again I do wonder what outrage inducing issue will be next. Honestly not looking forward to it as I'm not fond of being rage fodder for humans without the intelligence of a crowbar. After all, with everything going on in the nation and world at large our Representatives in the House decided that making our appliances less energy efficient is the hill to defend. They just don't care their constituents will pay more in energy bills because the rage and hatred of anyone trying to make life better or easier is the focus.

We The People really need to audit all the things, including the requirements to become a politician. We've tried nothing and thus far are out of ideas as to what to do next, or words to that effect.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skudrunner "Just because it is not an issue in federal elections currently can people really trust joey b to not change this. He has a record of changing his position on damn near everything."

S.K.: We'd expect nothing less than this comment from you, skud. You've implied that President Biden would propose -- to a Republican House, no less -- that they come up with a bill that would allow non-citizens to vote? And that the SotH would accommodate this plan, and it would pass the Senate and become law? Do you REALLY, REALLY believe that?

Or did you have nothing to add to this post so you just made up the most absurdly ridiculous piffle you could think of?

PS. When you wrote it would be a good thing to make this "firm" so that President Biden couldn't change it, would you mind explaining that to us? Because it is already a FIRM federal law that no noncitizen can vote in federal elections. Get it? IT. IS. ALREADY. A. "FIRM." LAW.

So what in tarnation are you talking about? I've always assumed that you knew how our government worked, vis-a-vis lawmaking.

Apparently, I was wrong.

I'm just going to put this out there as a guess: You come here with even nonsensical accusations and ideas just so you can pile onto your contempt for Joe Biden?

Les Carpenter said...

We We the People realize, understand why, and accept that we are indeed our own worst enemy and begin to act in accordance with truth and nature maybe then problems will become less problematic.

Won't be holding breath.

Dave Miller said...

Shaw... I think you need to give an award to the stupidest comment I've ever seen on your blog... from Skud.

Just because it is not an issue in federal elections currently can people really trust joey b to not change this.

Skud, you trumpet the education you paid for all by yourself as proof that anyone can do it. Is it possible that your education was so reasonably priced because you didn't learn anything?

Your comment wouldn't pass muster on Schoolhouse Rock where we all learned the basics of a bill becoming law after legislative action.

And before you go all foaming that "joey b" could just enact an EO, think. Not even the most liberal, progressive far left, leftie Dem would support it. Seriously, are you proposing a law, to keep "joey b" from telling the American people that non-citizens have a right to vote?

My gosh, in one sentence you have encapsulated the idiocy we see everyday on conservative sites. The idiocy like this... "MAYBE CHANGING PRESIDENTS SO OFTEN IS WHAT CAUSES OUR WEAK, CONFUSED REACTIONS TO MOST THINGS….MAYBE WE NEED A DICTATOR !!"

You're better than this amigo. We all know it, or at least we hope you are.

Dave Miller said...

More on Skud... "make it [a law that says non-citizens can't vote] firm".

How should we do that Skud since you seem to think the current laws that make it illegal are not already firm. Here's the text of 18 U.S. Code § 611 regarding Voting by Aliens...

(a)It shall be unlawful for any alien to vote in any election held solely or in part for the purpose of electing a candidate for the office of President, Vice President, Presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, Delegate from the District of Columbia, or Resident Commissioner, unless—

(1)the election is held partly for some other purpose;
(2)aliens are authorized to vote for such other purpose under a State constitution or statute or a local ordinance; and
(3)voting for such other purpose is conducted independently of voting for a candidate for such Federal offices, in such a manner that an alien has the opportunity to vote for such other purpose, but not an opportunity to vote for a candidate for any one or more of such Federal offices.

(b)Any person who violates this section shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(c)Subsection (a) does not apply to an alien if—
(1)each natural parent of the alien (or, in the case of an adopted alien, each adoptive parent of the alien) is or was a citizen (whether by birth or naturalization);
(2)the alien permanently resided in the United States prior to attaining the age of 16; and
(3)the alien reasonably believed at the time of voting in violation of such subsection that he or she was a citizen of the United States.

Ppl can be penalized by up to five years in prison under this already "firm" law.

Then, each state has their own similar laws already.

So again, I ask, for all of us Neanderthals here, how will a new law, saying the same thing, make it "firm"?

JoeBama "Truth 101" Kelly said...

In defense of my friend from the right, Skuds, his comment was so ridiculous I am wondering if his moniker was hijacked by someone of limited intelligence and integrity.

skudrunner said...

Ms. Shaw and the Rev. You have faith in our politicians and I think they are just opportunistic crooks wo will do anything to keep their fiefdom in tact. They have already made it legal in some places for illegals and former felons to vote so it is not out of reason to convert that to federal elections. Would joey b support that, all he has to do is be told that is what he is going to do and he will be all in.

15th Amendment says "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

That seems to be protected but so does the electoral college which the left is trying to change. Abortion was legal until it wasn't and at one time only men could vote until it was changed. The constitution in an inflexible document but subject to change so my statement is valid.

One thing an education enhances is the ability to think which as an independent I exercise. Rev, I will just consider your insult as an inability to exercise critical thinking and not take offense
to your statement.

Les Carpenter said...

It won't Dave. But it's an effective distraction that resonates with the cult and other sheeple.

Grey One talks sass said...

skud said "They have already made it legal in some places for illegals and former felons to vote so it is not out of reason to convert that to federal elections"

Really? Do tell. While doing so please explain your reasoning for conflating felons with undocumented immigrants. It's a rectangle/square thing for me because I see someone who is a felon as a citizen and I see undocumented immigrants as not felon/soon to be citizen because to commit a crime in a country you want to eventually call home isn't good decision making. I believe if a human has the fortitude to get themselves and their families out of where there is only poverty, gangs, drugs, rape, and death to here where there is the potential of a future then they aren't the ones doing crime, which is verified by crime statistics.

Just not seeing your link skud. Well I do see one but it's horribly racist and discriminatory and I thought you were giving up that practice. What happened? I ask because I care. You were actually logical for a bit and bam, back into the MAGA bubble for you!

Your statement about President Biden implies he has no position. That is not true. Like most humans, when presented with facts that contradict ones previous point of view, Pres. Biden learns from the new data and changes his position on an issue. This is not flipping ones point of view like so many on the MAGA side where they were for a thing before they weren't. Haven't heard you call out one of them by name skud, even though their faces have been in the news for a week now.

By the way skud, you deserve to be vigorously mocked for your comments on this post. Not your best work. Mocked skud, heavily. You were doing so good, using facts, adulting... Ah well, someday.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Maybe this is what skudrunner is confused about:

All available evidence shows that noncitizen voting in federal elections is incredibly rare.

It’s illegal for people who aren’t U.S. citizens to vote in federal elections, but it is legal for them to vote in local elections if the jurisdiction allows it.

A small number of local jurisdictions, such as San Francisco and the District of Columbia, let immigrants who haven’t become U.S. citizens vote on races for school board and city council.

Shaw Kenawe said...

skudrunner: "The constitution in an inflexible document but subject to change so my statement is valid."

Do you know the process of passing an amendment to the Constitution and how long it takes?

Do you actually believe that his divided country would actually pass an amendment allowing non-documented immigrants to vote? Really?

You stated that we changed the Constitution to allow slaves and women to vote. Yes. BOTH WERE CITIZENS!

The EC is another matter. The founders thought that the use of electors would give our country a representative president, while avoiding a corruptible national election.

It's interesting to note that Trump and his fellow insurrectionists tried, through a corrupt plan, to overthrow an electoral college win by Joe Biden.

The founding fathers did not foresee a man as corrupt as Trump EVER becoming president and trying to illegally hold onto that office.

We are the only democracy that does NOT elect its president by popular vote.

Les Carpenter said...

Emptiness if form, and form is emptiness.

Emtiness is nothing other than form, and form is nothing other than emptiness.

Everything being empty of inherent nature allows for the full potentiality of everything.

But seeing such potentiality requires letting go and being open to the world and universe. Something conservatives have little to no interest in methinks. Which might explain MAGA.

Thersites said...

TRUE the Vote!

skudrunner said...

Ms. Shaw, We can never underestimate the corrupting nature of politics and their ability to only focus on their power. Who would have thought that the swell guy would be a disaster for people of color or a business man would be the most corrupt president since LBJ.

There are still people who think the economy is good even with gas almost double since 2021 and food up 26%. Guess that is the reason we are stuck with two incompetent candidates running. If the evil one wins the country will melt and if the thief wins we will get saddled with cruiella which will be a bigger disaster than joey b.

Leslie, Trying to sound enlightened is not working.

Dave Dubya said...

Good ol' Skud. Jumping to Trump's dog whistle again.

He really does buy into the lie that Dems want illegal immigrants for their votes. Maybe he suspects a "democrat pedophile ring" operating out of a pizza parlor basement, too?

Can't put it past joey b, can we, Skud?

Dave Miller said...

Skud said... "They have already made it legal in some places for illegals and former felons to vote"

Who is this they Skud? And don't you agree that once a felon has served his or her sentence they should be once again able to vote?

Really, why should we continue to keep them from voting, if they've served their time?

Over 66% agreed and said so in a voting referendum there a few years back. But the state GOP fearing they'd never win another statewide election in the state, came up with a scheme, went to the conservative state supreme court and overturned a legal constitutional amendment that the state voters wanted and approved.

Do you agree with that court, or should "former felons" get that right back?

I think they should. They've paid their debt. Now tell us why they should not.

Dave Miller said...

BTW, that state referendum was in Florida.

Les Carpenter said...

Guess it's over your head skud. Not at all suprised.

Les Carpenter said...

The VOTE was, and will remain true. Except in the constricted and agenda driven mind of a facist MAGAT trump cultist.

Les Carpenter said...

Delusion is apparently what some are driven by. A MAGAT certainty.

skudrunner said...

Rev, "They" refer to many local governments. I never said a felon should not be allowed to vote I just said it was the law and then it's not. My point is no law cannot be changed if it is the will of the political elite. What was said and what you choose to hear are different but if they weren't you would have nothing to chide me about.

Dube, I put nothing past any politician that will help them remain in office. They buy votes with taxpayers money and in Chicago allow dead people to vote so to say they will go to any extreme to keep their job has been proven correct. What pizza parlor are you speaking about because I will avoid it

Dave Miller said...

Skud... I'll note once again you refused to answer a question that could clear a lot up. Why not? it's a simple question...

Do you think former felons should be able to vote?

And many laws have been changed over the years that the "political elite" did not like.

skudrunner said...

Rev, "Do you think former felons should be able to vote?" Not up to me and my answer means nothing. I was not pointing out if it was good or bad but laws can be changed and that is one of them.

Dave Miller said...

Of course Skud. You come here and under the guise of "pointing out" sling rhetorical mud. Like -FJ, you refuse to answer easy direct questions saying your "answer means nothing".

I guess in a sense, you're correct. Your answer does mean nothing. But then so does your opinion. Because like -FJ, you exist not for honest dialogue, rather for dissension.

Like most conservatives in America today.

Honestly, if us libs could figure out some specific policies you guys supported, I bet we'd agree on a lot more than most would think. But it seems impossible. Because like you, excepting the "fair or flat tax" are unable or unwilling to state positions on real issues beyond MAGA.

Whatever that means.