I’ll try to give an answer to the questions many on the right ask us liberals:
Here’s a typical example of what I’m talking about, from one of the conservative blogs I read on a mostly daily basis. In it, the author cites an article about former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman.
In the article, Whitman is quoted as follows:
“…there’s a part of me that says, ‘I hope all the crazies do win and everybody has to live with that for a while and see how much they like [it]… But then I realize, no, I don’t want to have to live in that world and I don’t want to leave it for my grandkids, either, the damage they could do.”
Then we are asked this series of questions from the blog author:
BLOGGER: “WHAT DAMAGE?”
DAVE: This one is easy.
There is no doubt that a large number of Republicans who will be elected in Tuesday’s election will be people who are election deniers. People who, without any evidence, claim the election of 2020 was stolen.
Maybe our worry is that handing the keys of government to people who believe the Clintons are child molesters, Joe Biden runs a crime syndicate, Barack Obama is a closet Muslim born in another country and refuse to accept the results of the 2020 elections is a bad idea.
BLOGGER: “Is she [Whitman] one of the total NUTS who believe Republicans don’t want you using contraception?”
DAVE: Total NUTS?
In July a majority of Republicans in Congress refused to help pass legislation designed to codify a SCOTUS decision [Griswold] that granted women access to contraceptives.
A decision that Justice Thomas, in the recent Dobbs case, said should be challenged. A decision that Tennessee GOP Senator Marsha Blackburn said was “constitutionally unsound.” When asked to clarify whether she believed a woman had a right to contraceptives, she refused to comment.
So maybe Gov. Whitman is one of those “total nuts” who believe Republicans don’t want you using contraception, but if she is, it’s because it’s true.
BLOGGER: “Does she [Whitman] believe closing the border’s a bad idea?”
DAVE: I bet Whitman, like many others, does believe closing our border is a bad idea. Me too, because it is a bad idea. But that does not mean we want open borders. Most of us lefties want a more liberal, legal immigration policy.
We are tired of people stuck in the system for years waiting. We know the US has jobs that are going undone right now for lack of workers. We know those jobs are in the tech industry, medical care, manufacturing and even agriculture. We know it because we have the data.
And we can see it everyday as we walk in malls and see the help wanted signs.
But here’s the simple truth many extremists do not want to accept. Those signs and job openings across America are not there because Americans refuse to work and are sitting in basements. They are there because we are short workers.
Between early retirements and deaths from Covid the last few years, America is short, according to the US Chamber of Congress, almost four million workers. Workers we desperately need to keep our economy strong and the social security and medicare systems solvent.
Which brings us to the final question:
BLOGGER: Does she [Whitman] honestly believe Republicans want to do away with Medicare and Social Security?”
DAVE: In a word, Yes!
And here’s why:
The head of the Senate Reelection Committee, Florida Senator Rick Scott, has a proposal to sunset, or in everyday language, to end, all entitlement programs every five years, unless Congress, a Congress that literally cannot pass anything bi-partisan, reauthorizes those programs.
Literally what he is proposing is for Congress to end those programs and then reform them. And many GOP Senators and leaders support his plan. But it doesn’t stop there. 158 out of 212 House Republicans, including top GOP leadership Members Whip Scalise and Chair Stefanik, have called for slashing and privatizing Social Security, raising the retirement age to 70 and ending Medicare as we know it as part of the Republican Study Committee FY2023 budget.
But there’s more.
Many conservatives, including some who comment on the blog of the person critical of Whitman, have called both Social Security and Medicare unconstitutional. Why is it a stretch to believe that Republicans would work to eliminate a program they see as unconstitutional?
But this is just a start. There’s the way Republicans have abandoned the Capitol police officers hurt on the job as they worked to defend the US Capitol from an insurrection on January 6. There’s the way conservative extremists dismissed the Secret Service agents who were so scared they would die January 6 defending Vice President Pence, that they called their families to say goodbye.
You see, conservatives must either believe the stories of these brave men and women who were ready to give their lives to defend VP Pence, Ted Cruz, Jim Jordan and yes, Nancy Pelosi, the Dems and our entire elected Congress, or believe those law enforcement officers are liars.
Because there is no other logical understanding.
Crazies?
Yes.
Because any group of people that refuses to acknowledge widely available evidence that believes lies in the absence of evidence and calls great numbers of federal police and law enforcement officers who, to this day are still recovering from injuries from January 6, liars, are indeed crazies.
Christine Todd Whitman was right. But to quote a great movie, many extremists can’t handle the truth.
And we’d post the truth to your site, but you don’t allow people with whom you disagree to post there.
https://www.azmirror.com/2022/10/31/the-republican-threat-to-contraception-is-real
https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage
https://banks.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fy23_budget_final_copy.pdf
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I'll add a couple of thoughts to Dave's thoughtful.
The blogger he and I read -- because her blog is the perfect microcosm of how older, white American Trump conservatives think -- had this to say about President Biden's speech on Wednesday evening:
There's no discussion on any of the points President Biden made, nothing about his plea for unity and an end to vicious threats to and violent attacks on Democrats AND Republicans. Nothing about Trump and his enablers', (many of whom are seeking elective office in federal and state positions), persistent lies about a stolen election. She and her readers offer not a thoughtful or substantive word about anything that was said, except calling it a "whole stupid talk," which is what one would expect from petulant teenagers who essentially know nothing but have an opinion on everything.
The people who populate that blog are Americans who stubbornly cling to a lie that is corroding our American democracy. And any reminder of that truth elicits the word "stupid" from the very people who willingly participate in the unraveling of our democratic republic. --S.K.
30 comments:
Does she [Whitman] honestly believe Republicans want to do away with Medicare and Social Security?
This person must be terminally oblivious not to be aware of this one, when so many Republican politicians have been quite explicit about it, and some have even threatened that if they win the House majority, they'll hold the debt ceiling hostage (risking a global economic crash) to force cuts to these programs.
Maybe Fox and Newsmax just haven't mentioned it? This shows that people need to look at news sources outside their own comfort zone. Otherwise they're at the mercy of what somebody with an agenda wants them to know.
IMO these folks are not simply resistant to change, they want to reverse direction and take America back to the 1950's. These folks represent the clingers. Those who cling onto a romanticized vision of America's past. One that never really existed. And, one that certainly never will. Especially if the slugs of the Trumpublican party have their way. But , if they do, America just might experience a very dark and dangerous period if they succeed in their misguided efforts to fundamentally changa American society.
Only time will tell. But, as history has shown us time and time again, all great powers have hit their apex only to recede in influence and power. This nation is showing many signs we're well on our way to to that end. Unless, IMO, the nation wakes up to actual reality.
We will, in the end, be the source of our future success or failure. So, for the future of our grandkids and great grandkids hopefully we collectively do the right thing in the present moment(s).
PLUS, they can't even get the location right. It was Union Station, NOT Union Square (which there is no Union Square in DC). Makes me think they didn't even watch the speech and just got sound bites that Faux News spliced together.
Great post. Too many good points to respond to all of them. But one thing I remember from the news earlier this year was a farmer getting ready to plow his ready-to-pick crop under because he could find workers to pick it.
Union Square is an 11-acre public plaza at the foot of Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C., United States. It encompasses the Ulysses S. Grant Memorial and the 6-acre Capitol Reflecting Pool and is just west of the United States Capitol building. Wikipedia
There are lies on both sides with if they are elected they will take your guns (BS) and they will eliminate SS and Medicare (another BS). We do need reform on gun control and medicare to bring them up to date. While we are at it reform the tax code so everyone pays their Fair Share and immigration. It is sad that when a party has control over the house, senate and executive branch they get nothing done on any important issues. Trump was all about lowering taxes and biden is all about climate change. It seems nothing else matters. They get richer and we get poorer because congress only works for themselves.
Republicans have already changed the government, our laws, and the Supreme Court. It remains to be seen how long the American voter will allow this change to continue. Electing Biden was a sign they have had enough, but this is still a split society politically and much had work must be done to bring sanity back to politics.
For the record (highlights):
Safety--
1. Top 7 highest murder rate states are Red states. Across all 50 states, Red state murder rate is 50% higher, at 9 per 100,000 population vs. 6 for Blue.
2. Violent crime jumped about 5% in 2020 under Trump, then fell 1% in 2021 under Biden per FBI.
3. Crime is a local issue, not why you vote Blue vs. Red at federal level. But Biden provided police funding in Rescue Act.
Economy--
1. Strong labor market, with lowest unemployment rate since 1969 in July at 3.46%, most with jobs ever, record two open jobs per unemployed, and solid job creation rate. Fed Chair repeatedly mentioned the strong labor market in his comments this week.
2. Households in best financial shape in decades, with bottom 50% real net worth at record level, elevated checking account balances at all income levels, and wage gains for production and non-supv. workers faster than inflation if pre-pandemic is start point.
Yes, we have more purchasing power now than the vaunted 2019 economy, despite inflation. Fed Chair pointed out how strong household balance sheets are, making it harder to tame inflation.
Thanks all for the replies. Let me say this about political lying.
There are the "white lies" some of which may be exaggerations. Mostly innocent lies, stuff like "this is the best economy ever". In fact, if the words ever, always and most appear as modifiers, a statement from a politico will usually fall into this category. This area will also include the shading of data to show your side in the best light possible.
Then there are mistakes, policy changes, etc., that happen after you say something that I don't think are lies. Warren Christopher explained it best, saying, and I paraphrase, "...somethings you say in the campaign you really mean, then you get in office and learn it's undoable, so you have to change." That included the Clinton campaign policy to Haiti, the GW Bush campaign plan for a "respectful foreign policy". Did they lie on the campaign trail? I would agree with Christopher and say nah...
Then there are the lies designed to do damage. This is where we have the lies designed to intentionally discredit the very foundations of America, our system of government and our elections. This area is almost Trump's alone in the recent history of presidents, Nixon notwithstanding.
In the span of just a few years his lies have accomplished what dictators and foreign leaders have spent years dreaming of and trying to do to America, break the trust a majority of Americans had in our elections and the government.
So while yes, we can say all politicians lie, or both sides do it, the comparison is apples and oranges. A lie that says you "can keep your insurance", while wrong, is nowhere near as dangerous to the republic as the other side stole the election, the election was full of fraud, they rigged the voting machines, etc.
Especially since we now know many of the members of Congress who spouted those lies, in private admitted they knew their statements were false.
Dave M.:
"So while yes, we can say all politicians lie, or both sides do it, the comparison is apples and oranges. A lie that says you "can keep your insurance", while wrong, is nowhere near as dangerous to the republic as the other side stole the election, the election was full of fraud, they rigged the voting machines, etc.
Especially since we now know many of the members of Congress who spouted those lies, in private admitted they knew their statements were false."
MIKE POMPEO: "There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration, all right? We're ready."
And then we found out that Pompeo said that to appease Trump because he knew that Trump had lost.
Those in Congress who continue to cling to Trump's Big Lie for votes have probably damaged our country more than we'll be able to calculate for years to come.
Thanks Skud! I've lived in and around DC for 40 years and honestly have never heard of Union Square! This old gal can still learn new things about the area. But I still state that Biden gave his speech in or at Union Station.
What did Republicans get done last time they had Congress?
Did they repeal Obamacare? nope
Did they secure the border? nope
Did they give huge tax cuts to the rich? yep
SKUD: "There are lies on both sides with if they are elected they will take your guns (BS) and they will eliminate SS and Medicare (another BS)."
skud, I actually saw and heard Mike Lee say that he wants to end Social Security. I'm on Twitter and I saw it there.
Evan McMullin 🇺🇸
@EvanMcMullin
US Senate candidate, UT
Mike Lee was caught on camera saying that it will be his "objective to phase out social security" and that he'll "pull it up by its roots."
Othere Republican Congresspeople have said that too.
Paula,
The republicans have done little over the last decade because they don't get in line and vote for something before being allowed to read it. They really do need to get in line and march in step.
They didn't repeal obamacare because they couldn't come up with an alternative and still haven't
They had a good record on securing the border but totally securing it is impossible. Can't say the current open border policy is good for America as several non-border cities are finding out.
A tax cut is always a bad idea. If you give the rich a tax cut they will just spend it, if you give corporations a tax cut they will just remain in America and if you give the middle class a tax cut they will just feed their family. All of these things happened under republican rule.
I agree it is much better to raise taxes for all, brag about gas only going up $1.30 a gallon and keeping inflation below Venezuela's. Encourage forign oil production and make our own production as complicated as possible then make the argument of all those leases going unused.
Biden was very successful in implementing the covid shots that were developed by his predecessor. Problem is he has more deaths than his predecessor.
He did broker a deal with the railroad workers and had a fist bump agreement with SA. He also has had one of the largest increases in SS benefits and has committed for everyone to pay the debts of a privileged few so those are good things.
I have heard a few say they want to phase out social security and a few say they want to eliminate police but both of these are political posturing. As paula said they were going to eliminate obamacare and that hasn't happened even when they has a majority in congress and WH.
People... the blogger asked, Does [Whitman] believe Republicans want to do away with Social Security and Medicare?"
How should we answer this? Well, Republicans have said they do and some have a plan to do just that, but no they don't want to?
What kind of logic is that? What kind of person believes that?
Mike Lee said this... "It will be my objective to phase out Social Security. To pull it up by the roots and get rid of it."
Can anyone explain to me how we should interpret this? Are we supposed to ignore Sen Lee's words?
And then, after he said this he was asked about Medicare. Did he disavow his statement about Social Security before answering? Nope... he went further, saying this... "People who advise me politically always tell me it's dangerous and I tell them, 'In that case it's not worth my running.' That's why I'm doing this, to get rid of that [Social Security]. Medicare and Medicaid are of the same sort [as Social Security], they need to be pulled up [by the roots]."
Only people unwilling to face the truth, see these statements as anything else but a clear hope and desire to eliminate both Social Security and Medicare.
Between the Rick Scott plan, which Lee supports and Lee's statements, the intention of the GOP is clear. Eliminate both of those programs which have lifted seniors out of poverty for years.
Why is that?
When trumpublican leaders rell they want to phase out the social safety nets we should take them at their word. They mean it. The old Rockefeller republicans are non existant today and have been replaced by rRump Trumpublicans. Guess skud likes to believe the old republican reality still exists. It doesn't.
Skud,
Was their promise to overturn Roe v Wade just political posturing?
Just a reminder to skid: President Biden added $$$ to fund the police. You can look it up.
The Trumpublicans’ promise to end a woman’s right to choose actually happened. I believe them when they say they’ll end Social Security and Medicare.
The Democrats DID NOT DEFUND THE POLICE. Joe Biden increased funding the police.
Autocorrect changed “skud to “skid!” Sorry.
Dube, That was made by the supreme court for which I don't agree but was not asked. They did not outlaw abortion they just said it is states rights so there are still choices. It is becoming more common for liberals to oppose states rights and free speech unless of course the speech agrees with them.
Leslie, What does Rockefeller republicans mean. Can't say I have ever heard that one before.
President Biden's Safer America Plan:
President Biden's fiscal year 2023 budget requests a fully paid-for new investment of approximately $35 billion to support law enforcement and crime prevention – in addition to the President's $2 billion discretionary request for these same programs. Aug 1, 2022
READ MORE HERE
Skus: "They did not outlaw abortion they just said it is states rights so there are still choices."
Sen. Lindsey Graham stated that if the Republicans gain the House and Senate, they will propose a FEDERAL LAW to ban abortions. If they succeed, a FEDERAL LAW will overrule state laws dealing with abortion, so there will be NO STATE'S RIGHT TO ABORTION.
You can look it up. Graham has said that will happen if the Republicans win. What else can we understand from that EXCEPT that THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO BAN ABORTION NATIONWIDE -- taking the choice away from the STATES.
Where do you get your information? And how did you miss Sen. Graham making that statement?????
From Reuters:
After Roe's overturn, many Republicans, including Graham, said abortion policy should be left to the states.
On Tuesday, however, Graham said he was introducing his bill as a counter to a measure Democrats pushed unsuccessfully this year in a bid to codify national abortion rights.
Evangelical Republicans have been warning us for years that they would overturn abortion rights. And that's just what they did after pursuing candidates for the SCOTUS who are anti-abortion religionists.
The Jewish religion, as well as liberal Protestant religions and non-fundamentalist Christian religions do not DISALLOW abortion. They take into account the reasons for a girl's or woman's need for this medical procedure. HOWEVER, fundamentalist Evangelicals and Catholics DO NOT believe abortion for any reason, and here we are, being forced to accommodate a minority religionist belief.
When Evangelical Republicans tell you what they want to do, believe them! When they say they want to enact a nationwide ban, believe them.
skud, the Rockefeller Republicans were liberal Republicans who did not stick their noses into individuals' private decisions, like abortion, birth control, who one loves and who one wants to marry.
The present-day Evangelical fundamentalists are on a mission to make this country into a Christian Nationalist nation.
When religion ruled over countries, that was called The Dark Ages.
Rockefeller Republicans... Fiscally conservative, socially laissez faire, mostly libertarian.
Thanks for educating ole skuddy buddy.
Ms. Shaw, Thanks for the history lesson on Rockefeller because I had never heard the term. I have always felt that the government should stay out of peoples lives and their function should be to protect us and deliver the mail. As to your assumption that the government any new program is paid for shows the ability of the media to control thought. The presidents ability to get what he says walked back is stunning.
We are in for a major shift in this country if the republicans win both houses of congress. All blacks in Georgia will be arrested, people crossing the southern border will be shot and every person in this country will be required to carry a passport to prove they are citizens. Election will be suppressed and limited to 6 hours after attending church and rich people will pay no taxes.
Rockefeller never Represented the majority of the Republican party. Republicans put God in the pledge and have been trying to overturn Roe/Wade for fifty years. They fought Social Security to the Supreme Court under FDR, now the court wants to throw out affirmative action, and to many more to list. When were Republicans fiscally conservative or socially laissez faire? Ike passed the largest tax and spend bill up to his time. Republican tax cuts over the last 40 years are largely responsible for our 30 trillion-dollar debt. Since when is not paying our bills fiscally conservative? Republicans have been in power more than Democrats since Ronald Regan.
Thanks rev that does make sense. It would be nice to have that kind of party that represents someone who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal but it doesn't exist. Both parties are far to fiscally liberal and spend everyone's money to enhance their fortune. Our esteem leaders have no intention of balancing the budget because they don't have the desire or skill to do what it takes. Maybe if the republicans win control the earth will melt and we can start over.
Anon... you are correct about Rockefeller, Gov of NY from '59-'73. He had his wing in the national party back in the day. However once Goldwater won the nomination in the 1964 election, that wing was banished except for a short resurgence when he was VP under Ford.
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